Nearly 7 in 10 Americans have less than $1,000 in savings

[LivingAlmostLarge]

I didn't knock trades. If you read what I wrote it was that before going into trades meant a guaranteed pension, health insurance, union, etc. There was a lot more security, now it's not like that. And with "white" collar jobs before it was go to college and be set with a cushy middle class retirement lifestyle. Now both "blue and white" collar jobs don't have the same job security. Blue collar a lot of it doesn't have the same union strength or benefits. White collar is impeded by the cost of college.

I don't think it's the same scenario for people on all points of the income scale to say that things have shifted. That people are forced to be more responsible and I think that less people are. And part of it stems I think from factors outside of people's control.

Could we have projected skyrocketing health insurance and care costs? Or college?

[Fishindude77]

We've had similar threads on this subject before. My view is that the potential to earn a bunch of money in the US has never been better.

It's true that pensions are no longer readily available, but they were pretty unsustainable. Do the simple math; work for 30 years till your 50, then retire for 30+ years drawing a pension and health insurance. It aint gonna work. Pensions worked mathematically when people retired at 65 and only lived till about 75. This plays right into the healthcare cost complaints. Yes, costs are high, but healthcare has also never been better. We are all living longer, healthier lives.

Working class people used to be content raising their family in a 1,100 SF home in town on a small lot, mom stayed home and took care of house and kids, dad worked (a lot), one car, one TV on a free antenna, vacations were a couple days at a nearby lake, kids entertained themselves playing pickup sports in the yard, etc. and only the rich kids went to college. Today the expectations are a big home and yard in the suburbs, two modern cars, daycare for kids so mom can work, many meals are carry out, a TV in every room with expensive cable or satellite, all family members have cell phones and lap tops or ipads, kids are enrolled in expensive after school sports and activities, vacations are $4K affairs to Florida for spring break, there is a pool in every back yard, everyone is pushed to attend college, etc.

Fact is, most of this stuff is not necessary. It's confusion over "wants" vs "needs".

[LivingAlmostLarge]

But the same jobs for both white and blue collar don't allow for the same lifestyle as before even with lifestyle inflation. There aren't many small houses on tiny lots close to jobs. They've been torn down and now people working these blue and white collar jobs commute 1+ hour. Now instead only those without kids and who make a lot can afford to live close. Instead of making public transit easy for people the US lacks the infrastructure. So is it really the apple to apples comparison?

[pflyers85]

Reality is that before on one income you could buy a house, retire with a pension, send your kids to college, and be comfortable. Now you can't. And you are a lot harder pressed to do it without a college degree. But now that same college degree is 100x more expensive.

So it's a catch-22 for all levels of people. People who had "blue" collar jobs found it outsourced. They found that pensions went away and good jobs to raise a family tough to come by. "White" collar jobs where college became a requirement became so expensive that it's difficult to make it "worth" the value.

So now what?

But again look at the type of homes middle class people on one income bought years ago compared to the homes people buy today. Today many middle class folks are demanding at least 2 car garages, finished basements, granite countertops, a bedroom for each child plus a spare, multiple bathrooms, etc. Look at the type of vacations many middle class folks regularly go on today. Disney, cruises, overseas, etc. Years ago those were once in a lifetime and for many a drive to the shore or lake for a couple days was the best they did.

I think it is misguided to just absolve the middle class of their own self inflicted wounds. Sure there are issues beyond their control but they aren't helping their cause.


*Sorry I just saw your post Fishindude, my apologies for some redundancy.

[disneysteve]

I think it is misguided to just absolve the middle class of their own self inflicted wounds. Sure there are issues beyond their control but they aren't helping their cause.

I think this is a good way to put it.

Things have changed that work against people but people also continue to make lifestyle choices that make the situation worse. We can't fix societal issues - affordable housing, public transit availability, etc., but we can fix our own behavior - control spending, live more frugally, save regularly, cook at home more, take more modest vacations, etc. The problem comes when people want everything whether they can afford it or not.

[LivingAlmostLarge]

True, but part of it is that smaller homes don't exist closer to. A lot of homes we've seen are tear downs. Tiny homes you talk about to share are gone. That moving closer and living smaller they aren't doing it. Right now house hunting I've made constant mention I don't want a mcmansion and want a smaller home closer and the realtors just shrug and think I'm nuts. I say I want under 3000 sq ft and the stuff i see are gut or tear downs. I say come on! It's not "profitable.".

So living closer means that you buy a bigger home? Because EVERYONE wants those big homes? NO. but you get sucked in without wanting it.