Will the market continue upward trend?

[myrdale]

We pay the tax, not China. This leads to higher prices in the US and supply chain issues.

Only if you chose too. No one is forcing you to buy from China. Buy American.

[ua_guy]

Only if you chose too. No one is forcing you to buy from China. Buy American.

And therein lies the problem. Our supply chain IS global, and has been for a long time, and many products aren't currently available in the US. This will force (even US companies) to spend billions and billions of dollars out of their own pockets and forego profit *just* to make products in the US in order to avoid tariffs. Prices will soar and the US can't be competitive any longer. Or, it may be cheaper just to pay the taxes in which case, it's the most back-handed implementation of a national VAT I've ever seen.

Many of the imports which are taxed are not currently made in the US because companies determined it wasn't worth it/ or profitable to do so in the US anymore, for many different reasons. So, if you want to force market conditions and name winners and losers based on country of origin, and reduce profits for all kinds of US companies by doing this, then by all means, continue to support this absolute joke of a trade policy. Isolationist economic policies don't work.

[myrdale]

And therein lies the problem. Our supply chain IS global, and has been for a long time, and many products aren't currently available in the US. This will force (even US companies) to spend billions and billions of dollars out of their own pockets and forego profit *just* to make products in the US in order to avoid tariffs. Prices will soar and the US can't be competitive any longer. Or, it may be cheaper just to pay the taxes in which case, it's the most back-handed implementation of a national VAT I've ever seen.

Many of the imports which are taxed are not currently made in the US because companies determined it wasn't worth it/ or profitable to do so in the US anymore, for many different reasons. So, if you want to force market conditions and name winners and losers based on country of origin, and reduce profits for all kinds of US companies by doing this, then by all means, continue to support this absolute joke of a trade policy. Isolationist economic policies don't work.

Its my understanding that the United States has been getting the short end of the stick on tariffs and trade deficits for decades. He is simply telling the rest of the world they can no longer stick their hand in our purse. At it appears to be working.

It seems like you're convinced that the tariffs he has implemented are always and forever. They are not. It is simply a bargaining chip. If other countries want to impose tariffs on the products we sell to them, then we are going to impose the same tariffs back on them.

I fail to see the humor in your AI image of obese people working in a sweat shop. Fake elitist news.

[EasyMoney00]

It amazes me that people support slave labor in other countries just so we can have cheap stuff. That's the American way though. People here love that others get paid $2/day just so we can have more stuff.

But, from an earlier discussion, others here think it's nearly impossible for the US to start making more things in house. Very strange mentality.

[disneysteve]

The administration gave in to pretty much all of China's demands leaving China in a stronger position than before and the US in a weaker position. So not only was nothing accomplished, we're actually worse off than before the inane tariffs were enacted.

As for "buy American" that might look good on a bumper sticker but it completely ignores the reality of living in a global economy. Let's see you find a cell phone made in the US with zero foreign components. Or a car. Or bananas or avocados. Or a million other products that you use every day. It can't be done, not now, not ever. Many products don't and can't come from the US because they do not exist here. Ok, maybe there is a tiny amount of bananas or avocados or coffee grown in the US but not nearly enough to supply the nation. And some of the rare metals required for tech products can't be sourced domestically at all, not even a little.

[ua_guy]

Its my understanding that the United States has been getting the short end of the stick on tariffs and trade deficits for decades. He is simply telling the rest of the world they can no longer stick their hand in our purse. At it appears to be working.

It seems like you're convinced that the tariffs he has implemented are always and forever. They are not. It is simply a bargaining chip. If other countries want to impose tariffs on the products we sell to them, then we are going to impose the same tariffs back on them.

I fail to see the humor in your AI image of obese people working in a sweat shop. Fake elitist news.

I see rising prices and a retracting economy, and a damaged global standing. When bargaining, it's important to actually get something in return. So far, America has flinched and retracted its ultimatums multiple times, while making its own citizens pay more taxes. Not good.

[EasyMoney00]

I believe the s&p is back to where it was at the start of the year. Still down from high but we're getting there. One bite at a time.

[ua_guy]

I believe the s&p is back to where it was at the start of the year. Still down from high but we're getting there. One bite at a time.

Still off from its high.

So, we're biting our way back to the status quo, in a much weaker position than before, while we all pay higher taxes as a result? You're not making any sense. We'd literally be much better off had he just done....nothing. Kept his mouth shut.

[myrdale]

As for "buy American" that might look good on a bumper sticker but it completely ignores the reality of living in a global economy. Let's see you find a cell phone made in the US with zero foreign components. Or a car. Or bananas or avocados. Or a million other products that you use every day. It can't be done, not now, not ever. Many products don't and can't come from the US because they do not exist here. Ok, maybe there is a tiny amount of bananas or avocados or coffee grown in the US but not nearly enough to supply the nation. And some of the rare metals required for tech products can't be sourced domestically at all, not even a little.

Just because it doesn't exist today, doesn't mean it can't exist tomorrow.

How about addressing EasyMoney00 point about slave labor in China? But so long as your have the newest cell phone and it's cheap, what does the facts behind it's production matter?

[Fishindude77]

How about addressing EasyMoney00 point about slave labor in China? But so long as your have the newest cell phone and it's cheap, what does the facts behind it's production matter?

Kind of a "not in my backyard" issue. We want to demand $15-20 minimum wage in US for burger flippers because they can barely survive on that. Meanwhile we are happy to purchase cheap things made overseas by dirt poor, oppressed labor living in carboard shanties.

[ua_guy]

I don't think Volvos are made in Sweden with slave labor. They definitely aren't in a BMW factory in Germany. The guy hand-assembling a Ducati in Italy probably doesn't go home to roommates, or a cardboard box. The people building your Chevy Silverado at the Silao plant in Mexico are Union labor. They don't actually live in cardboard shanties. However, the standard of living compared to people at the Fort Wayne plant is probably about the same!

Much of textile manufacturing is now automated. I don't see anyone here advocating for slave labor, period.

I don't actually care if cell phones go from costing $599 to $4599. Or if the price of a TV goes up to $10k. But what we know from past experience is if gasoline goes up $1.00 or the price of eggs doubles, people take to the streets to protest because they say they can't afford it.

So.... what were we talking about again? Slave labor?

And why is the subject changing from the worst trade policies in history? We're getting our asses beat and it's embarrassing.

[Fishindude77]

The average person isn't buying Volvos, Ducati or BMW.
Quick Google search reveals average annual wages for manufacturing labor in China +/- $8,400. Mexico is a bit better at $9-12,000.

Why in the heck do you think our borders were overrun with refugees in the recent past?

[EasyMoney00]

Pace of inflation now slowest since 2021.

[ua_guy]

The average person isn't buying Volvos, Ducati or BMW.
Quick Google search reveals average annual wages for manufacturing labor in China +/- $8,400. Mexico is a bit better at $9-12,000.

Why in the heck do you think our borders were overrun with refugees in the recent past?

You're right. They're buying vehicles built in China, South Korea, Mexico, and Canada, as well as a few small cars which are still built in the US. And pickups, many of which are built in Mexico and Canada. You walked right into it.

Refugees come here because we used to have due process and better opportunity to work and build prosperity. It's the same reason my great grandparents came here (From Italy, France, Great Britain, and Germany).

[ua_guy]

Pace of inflation now slowest since 2021.

As should happen in a retracting economy.