Negotiating a car purchase

[disneysteve]

Amazes me that around 85% of cars are purchased using credit, a loan, or lease of some type.
We bought a few that way when we were young, broke and financially dumb, but wised up and have paid cash for them for a long time now.

If you save up and pay cash for a vehicle you tend to be a lot more thoughtful about the purchase and don't buy luxuries and frills you don't need.

I think the days of a no frills vehicle are behind us, but seems like there would be a market for something at a lower price point with bare minimum accessories. Like the older pickups; single cab, no chrome, heat, crank windows, vinyl floors, a basic radio, simple 6 cyl engine, 2wd, etc.
Maybe nobody would buy them?

Of course there is more profit for the companies in making cars packed with features. It also annoys me the way they bundle completely unrelated features into a package. You want a better stereo? Oh, then you have to get the "Premium Sports Towing Package" with alloy wheels, pin striping, and 8-way power seats. NO! I don't want that crap. I just want a good sound system.

I think there would be a market for no frills cars but it's the same problem as affordable housing. Money. Builders don't want to build 2-bedroom cottages. They want to build McMansions.

[ua_guy]

Good ol' capitalism. I do miss the days of checkbox options. The equipment packages and entangled trim/package/option choices-not-choices in vehicle "configurators" are maddening. So many of the option "packages" end up being Sophie's choice, too. You can get the fun engine but only with an automatic transmission. You want the standard, cloth front bench seat because your dog likes to lay between you on road trips? Then you can't have any other modern convenience option because you're stuck in Work Truck jail, pal.

The "Slate" pickup kind of has the right idea with being very basic and configurable, but it's an EV, and that's not for everyone. If there were two vehicles I wish could be brought back, it would probably be the 90's/early 00's Ford Ranger and Chevrolet S10. You could buy either of them with basically zero options, or load them up into versatile and comfortable trucks for not a lot of money.

[Fishindude77]

If there were two vehicles I wish could be brought back, it would probably be the 90's/early 00's Ford Ranger and Chevrolet S10. You could buy either of them with basically zero options, or load them up into versatile and comfortable trucks for not a lot of money.

I had a brand new 85' Ranger, single cab, 7' bed, bench vinyl manually adjustable seat, rubber floors, heat only, 4cy, manual stick trans, AM radio, crank windows, and that was about it.
It got 30+ mpg and bought it for $5800. Drove that thing to death and it was still in decent shape when I upgraded.

Wasn't too much that could go wrong with it.

[LivingAlmostLarge]

Oh the packages are crazy now. Everything is a package on a car

[disneysteve]

You want the standard, cloth front bench seat because your dog likes to lay between you on road trips? Then you can't have any other modern convenience option because you're stuck in Work Truck jail, pal.

This one is a big issue among the vegetarian/vegan community. They generally do not want leather seats or accessories in their vehicles but they still want and are willing to pay for everything else. It's just not an option. It isn't possible to purchase, direct from the manufacturer, a higher end car with all of the niceties and amenities but cloth seats. Cloth seats are reserved for the lowest base models only. Also other leather accents like the steering wheel cover, shifter, etc.

[ua_guy]

This one is a big issue among the vegetarian/vegan community. They generally do not want leather seats or accessories in their vehicles but they still want and are willing to pay for everything else. It's just not an option. It isn't possible to purchase, direct from the manufacturer, a higher end car with all of the niceties and amenities but cloth seats. Cloth seats are reserved for the lowest base models only. Also other leather accents like the steering wheel cover, shifter, etc.

Good news for vegans, a lot of the manufacturers are getting away from leather and/or are offering synthetic options for seats, steering wheel wraps, and other controls. The newer materials are the real deal, super durable and hold up over time. Not like vinyl seats of long ago.

[disneysteve]

Good news for vegans, a lot of the manufacturers are getting away from leather and/or are offering synthetic options for seats, steering wheel wraps, and other controls. The newer materials are the real deal, super durable and hold up over time. Not like vinyl seats of long ago.

That's good to hear. Even better if they don't cause 3rd degree burns in the summer like the old vinyl seats used to. I think I still have scars from my 73 Chevy.

[ua_guy]

That's good to hear. Even better if they don't cause 3rd degree burns in the summer like the old vinyl seats used to. I think I still have scars from my 73 Chevy.

No, nothing like the past. Even in my lifetime automakers switched from bare metal seat belt buckles and receivers to more humane restraints. The mechanisms are all shrouded in plastic now and it's pretty tough to cause a burn on skin when properly fastened.

Switching gears, back to car deals and advice for the general population:

One other *new car negotiating tip I forgot to mention is that Costco deals are still good, and they can be used as a litmus test for your own deal.

If you are a costco member, you can participate in their auto buying program. You contact a dealer, ask if they will do a Costco deal on a car you're interested in, and they will (should) generate a Costco price sheet. This is important - the auto buying program requires they do this as part of participation including providing it to you, and they also have to provide information back to the program and show the program what you were provided. The sheet will show you the breakdown of costs and discounts. In my experience, "Costco deals" generally represent a decent, middle-of-the-road deal for almost zero effort.

Here's where it gets tricky. Not all cars are eligible for Costco deals. And dealers sometimes try to wiggle out of a Costco deal. If you ask, sometimes they'll say something like "The Costco price is only $500 off invoice, and the markdown we've already got on the car is more than that". They may be steering you away from using the Costco program because it's not as lucrative for them, and if they have you convinced, they don't need to show you the actual breakdown of discounts and charges.

In some cases, regarding existing discounts, this is true, IF the dealer is including a dealer cash incentive on top of manufacturer incentives. However, the Costco program stipulates all the regular manufacturer rebates and incentives apply in addition to their program. Insist on seeing the sheet anyway if they've already said they will honor a Costco deal.

I shopped a truck last year and this exact scenario happened. I literally told the guy, I don't think that's entirely true, but I'm still interested in the truck and I'd like to buy it through Costco. They ran the Costco sheet and program and, is anybody shocked? The Costco price was another $500 below what they had said was their best deal which nothing could beat. He said something like "my bad, I didn't think it would come back that low!". Oh, really...I'm sure this is the first time, right? LOL

I didn't buy the truck there, but it was a good exercise anyway.