Are PhDs worth it?

[Leo]

This might not be the correct forum for this question, but I've been a member here since my early 20s, and the advice I've received in this place has always been invaluable and I'm grateful for that.

Anyway, I am planning in getting a PhD in Technology Management from National University.

I don't know if I have mentioned it in my previous posts, but currently I am earning 200k+ a year as a software engineer, and I have finished my master's degree back in 2015. My BS in Computer Science earned outside the US so my Master's I believe definitely help my career. We now have a house and around 600k net worth including retirement.

I wanted to list my top 10 reasons:
1. I want to learn, and improve my knowledge to feed my curiousity
2. I want to reduce my boredom so I don't get depressed and keeps me busy
3. I want to achieve the highest degree possible so it will increase my confidence
4. I want to be a role model to my kid or future kids so they value education as I do
5. I want to improve my reputation or credibility to help my career or my future consulting business
6. I want to achieve one my dreams and have the biggest accomplishment of my life
7. I want to reduce my fear of being not successful or to go down in life
8. I want to have something that nobody can take away from me to have my own personal legacy
9..

I swear I had 10 last night but now that I am writing it, feels like I covered most of it: deepening knowledge, curiousity, academic achievement, career advancement, personal fulfillment, recognition and prestige, job security, economic benefits, etc.

Cons:
60k...

I hate the tuition fee. My Master's from a state university was only 15k and paid it off within 1 year

Plan:
Get a loan for 60k, pay it off within 1-2 years after graduating PhD (3-4 years)

Why now?
Got extra time on my hands, and feel like I am near the top of my career as a software engineer and just thought it’s the right time with the flexibility of working from home

Why contemplating?
Really hate to go into debt, and financial or career wise, not sure if the degree will really help me, maybe get into Director or CTO type of role. Also, I’m concerned that some of my reasons might not justify the investment

Appreciate your honest 2 cents

[disneysteve]

I think if you're doing it purely for personal satisfaction, which is fine, only you can answer if it's worth it.

My question would be how much of a difference will it make to your career? Will getting the degree automatically give you a bump in pay at your current job? Will it open up job opportunities that you aren't currently eligible for but are interested in pursuing? For example, at my daughter's college, every professor held the highest degree in their field of study so someone with a Masters wouldn't be hired there if there is a Doctorate available in that field.

It doesn't sound like the money is really a deciding factor here if you can pay it off in a year or two.

I'm not sure how to say this delicately (you asked for honest responses) but several of the reasons you listed could probably be more inexpensively and more productively addressed by getting some good therapy. Boredom, depression, lack of confidence, fear of not being successful, etc. A piece of paper hanging on your office wall won't actually accomplish any of those things, or at least not long term. After you get that degree, you'll still be the exact same person that you were before with the same self-esteem and insecurity issues that you have now. I don't know that spending 60K for a title will fix any of that. Spending 5K/year for therapy might be a far better investment both personally and financially.

[Leo]

I think if you're doing it purely for personal satisfaction, which is fine, only you can answer if it's worth it.

My question would be how much of a difference will it make to your career? Will getting the degree automatically give you a bump in pay at your current job? Will it open up job opportunities that you aren't currently eligible for but are interested in pursuing? For example, at my daughter's college, every professor held the highest degree in their field of study so someone with a Masters wouldn't be hired there if there is a Doctorate available in that field.

It doesn't sound like the money is really a deciding factor here if you can pay it off in a year or two.

I'm not sure how to say this delicately (you asked for honest responses) but several of the reasons you listed could probably be more inexpensively and more productively addressed by getting some good therapy. Boredom, depression, lack of confidence, fear of not being successful, etc. A piece of paper hanging on your office wall won't actually accomplish any of those things, or at least not long term. After you get that degree, you'll still be the exact same person that you were before with the same self-esteem and insecurity issues that you have now. I don't know that spending 60K for a title will fix any of that. Spending 5K/year for therapy might be a far better investment both personally and financially.

I may have downplayed the money a little bit or misspoke. 60k is a lot and 10% of our net worth, and when I said pay it off within 1-2 years, meaning I will start paying now til 1-2 years after PhD graduation. PhD takes about 3 years and 3 months. so that means all our extra money goes to the PhD and we should be able to pay off the entire program 60k maybe in 4-5 years if I start now.

Regarding some of my reasons, I probably used the wrong word or maybe I can elaborate more. It's not like I am a depressed person or I lack confidence, or very paranoid or fearful. With so much time on my hands, I get bored, and sometimes boredom leads to loneliness or sadness, so I thought keeping myself busy and learning should help but yes I get your point, maybe getting a hobby, or a dog, or something is way cheaper. As far as confidence, I was referring to maybe more like "ego" where if I have that degree, I will feel good about myself and I can be the most confident person like maybe during an interview if a company ask me "Why do you wanna be a manager or a boss?" and maybe, just maybe I can confidently say "I am experienced engineer and I just finished my PhD in management and ready to be an engineering manager".

To answer your question, you don't really need a PhD in tech. I don't know what a PhD in management will accomplish or if its going to add anything to qualification I think a promotion naturally or practical experience of being manager is way better than a piece of paper, so I don't know how much difference it will make to my career, it will not automatically give me a bump, but maybe it will open up other job opportunities for me

Thanks steve

[crazyliblady]

This might not be the correct forum for this question, but I've been a member here since my early 20s, and the advice I've received in this place has always been invaluable and I'm grateful for that.

Anyway, I am planning in getting a PhD in Technology Management from National University.

I don't know if I have mentioned it in my previous posts, but currently I am earning 200k+ a year as a software engineer, and I have finished my master's degree back in 2015. My BS in Computer Science earned outside the US so my Master's I believe definitely help my career. We now have a house and around 600k net worth including retirement.

I wanted to list my top 10 reasons:
1. I want to learn, and improve my knowledge to feed my curiousity
2. I want to reduce my boredom so I don't get depressed and keeps me busy
3. I want to achieve the highest degree possible so it will increase my confidence
4. I want to be a role model to my kid or future kids so they value education as I do
5. I want to improve my reputation or credibility to help my career or my future consulting business
6. I want to achieve one my dreams and have the biggest accomplishment of my life
7. I want to reduce my fear of being not successful or to go down in life
8. I want to have something that nobody can take away from me to have my own personal legacy
9..

I swear I had 10 last night but now that I am writing it, feels like I covered most of it: deepening knowledge, curiousity, academic achievement, career advancement, personal fulfillment, recognition and prestige, job security, economic benefits, etc.

Cons:
60k...

I hate the tuition fee. My Master's from a state university was only 15k and paid it off within 1 year

Plan:
Get a loan for 60k, pay it off within 1-2 years after graduating PhD (3-4 years)

Why now?
Got extra time on my hands, and feel like I am near the top of my career as a software engineer and just thought it’s the right time with the flexibility of working from home

Why contemplating?
Really hate to go into debt, and financial or career wise, not sure if the degree will really help me, maybe get into Director or CTO type of role. Also, I’m concerned that some of my reasons might not justify the investment

Appreciate your honest 2 cents

I echo disneysteve's question about the benefits to your career. How will it actually benefit your career? I am thinking at your level of career that you do not need to do this. However, if you do it, will your current employer pay for or partially reimburse you for the cost? I am personally not in favor of going into debt for this.

[disneysteve]

I may have downplayed the money a little bit or misspoke. 60k is a lot and 10% of our net worth, and when I said pay it off within 1-2 years, meaning I will start paying now til 1-2 years after PhD graduation. PhD takes about 3 years and 3 months. so that means all our extra money goes to the PhD and we should be able to pay off the entire program 60k maybe in 4-5 years if I start now.

Understood. In that case, I'd be much less inclined to go for the degree. Five years of all extra money going to pay for a degree that doesn't sound like it will have any meaningful impact on your career or earning power just doesn't sound wise. That's 60K that won't be invested and growing for your future (or enjoyed in the moment living life).

With so much time on my hands, I get bored, and sometimes boredom leads to loneliness or sadness, so I thought keeping myself busy and learning should help but yes I get your point, maybe getting a hobby, or a dog, or something is way cheaper.

So you'll spend 60K to not be bored for 3 years. Then what? Once you finish the degree, as far as the boredom is concerned, you'll be right back where you started. I'd really be looking into other ways to occupy your time in a way that you enjoy. It sounds like you enjoy learning. What about continuing education programs? Industry conferences? Is there any advanced training you can do that isn't necessarily working toward a degree? You can often audit college courses for a nominal fee. You don't get credits but still get the education (and don't have to take the exams either). Maybe you'd enjoy learning about some subjects unrelated to your professional field. History, art, music, literature, whatever.

Do you have any hobbies? If not and you've got so much free time on your hands, is there something you've thought about trying? Do you play an instrument? Are you into sports or exercise? Ever thought about teaching or mentoring up and coming students in your field? There are tons of free ways to stave off boredom and some may even earn you money.

To answer your question, you don't really need a PhD in tech. I don't know what a PhD in management will accomplish or if its going to add anything to qualification I think a promotion naturally or practical experience of being manager is way better than a piece of paper, so I don't know how much difference it will make to my career, it will not automatically give me a bump, but maybe it will open up other job opportunities for me

Sounds like more reason that a PhD isn't really a good use of 60K.

[ua_guy]

It seems like you're doing well enough financially. $60k isn't all that much in the grand scheme of things and it sounds like you have the skills to manage the expense. I agree that this is more about what you want to do versus needing to actually get it. It may help your career and it may bring personal satisfaction/accomplishment, which are both great reasons to obtain that degree...

I honestly can't say I see a lot of educational creds in the business/management side of technology. Success there seems to be a function of being a great leader of people, understanding the business--how it works and its needs, and being able to understand the technology and related risks. The first two are generally not obtained through doctorate programs, but that's not to say a PhD in leadership isn't an amazing cred to have. At your income level, pursuing knowledge isn't about economics. You do it for the knowledge and experience.

As for reasons, I don't think you have to justify them to anyone.

[srblanco7]

I may have downplayed the money a little bit or misspoke. 60k is a lot and 10% of our net worth, and when I said pay it off within 1-2 years, meaning I will start paying now til 1-2 years after PhD graduation. PhD takes about 3 years and 3 months. so that means all our extra money goes to the PhD and we should be able to pay off the entire program 60k maybe in 4-5 years if I start now.

Regarding some of my reasons, I probably used the wrong word or maybe I can elaborate more. It's not like I am a depressed person or I lack confidence, or very paranoid or fearful. With so much time on my hands, I get bored, and sometimes boredom leads to loneliness or sadness, so I thought keeping myself busy and learning should help but yes I get your point, maybe getting a hobby, or a dog, or something is way cheaper. As far as confidence, I was referring to maybe more like "ego" where if I have that degree, I will feel good about myself and I can be the most confident person like maybe during an interview if a company ask me "Why do you wanna be a manager or a boss?" and maybe, just maybe I can confidently say "I am experienced engineer and I just finished my PhD in management and ready to be an engineering manager".

To answer your question, you don't really need a PhD in tech. I don't know what a PhD in management will accomplish or if its going to add anything to qualification I think a promotion naturally or practical experience of being manager is way better than a piece of paper, so I don't know how much difference it will make to my career, it will not automatically give me a bump, but maybe it will open up other job opportunities for me

Thanks steve

Yes to hobbies, pets, friends, and social circles outside of work (and not because it's cheaper). I believe it's important for your well-being.

As for the PhD - assess what you enjoy about your work. If the degree will bring you more of that then go for it (though I concur with avoiding debt). Recognize that a Director / CTO role likely moves your toward an "administrative-heavy" role.

[myrdale]

Is a Phd worth it? It depends on the major.

Chemical Engineering? Nope.
Teaching? Maybe?
English / History? Maybe?
Medical? Yeap.
Mathematics? Yeap.

Computer Science? I don't know.

With your current income, I hate to say you're good enough...but. What will the time required take away from your current job and life?

If you start your own company one day, the Phd isn't going to manner much. It is all in your ability to code.

Personally I wouldn't bother.

[kork13]

Agree with myrdale ... it depends alot on the field, and why you're going for it, and what having it does for you. In some fields, having a PhD is often required simply to get you into the conversation, let alone a seat at the table (academia, research/experimental sciences, etc.). For others, it's often kinda pointless ... as you mention, I expect most tech fields (again, excepting the research side) would treat it more like a mere wall decoration.

In your situation ... getting a PhD just doesn't sound like fun to me, let alone worthwhile. It's alot of work & slaving over a very specific (often infinitesimally small) question/problem/topic, so you really have to love it & have a vested interest in whatever slice of the field you pursue. Otherwise, you won't even complete the program & it'd be wasted money. And as you describe it, doesn't sound like there's a passion for the area of study ... it sounds more like a means to a very amorphous end.

[Fishindude77]

I echo disneysteve's question about the benefits to your career. How will it actually benefit your career? I am thinking at your level of career that you do not need to do this. However, if you do it, will your current employer pay for or partially reimburse you for the cost? I am personally not in favor of going into debt for this.

+1 in Agreement with the above.
Particularly since you are borrowing to do it.

Would you still do it if you had the $60k in cash laying around? I can think of a lot more fun things to do with $60k.

[Leo]

I appreciate all the advice. I'm still thinking about it but I am considering all the points here. I am leaning towards not going with it now but I will decide within a month or two. The real deal breaker for me is the 60k, which is a lot of money and could go towards something else. If getting a PhD is free, or something that is way more cheaper than 60k, I'll probably do it in a heartbeat because of my reasons I mentioned earlier.

So you'll spend 60K to not be bored for 3 years. Then what? Once you finish the degree, as far as the boredom is concerned, you'll be right back where you started. I'd really be looking into other ways to occupy your time in a way that you enjoy.

Do you have any hobbies? If not and you've got so much free time on your hands, is there something you've thought about trying? Do you play an instrument? Are you into sports or exercise? Ever thought about teaching or mentoring up and coming students in your field? There are tons of free ways to stave off boredom and some may even earn you money.


Sounds like more reason that a PhD isn't really a good use of 60K.

Thanks steve. I do have some hobbies but they come and go, like watching sports, or playing video games. I think one of my thinking here is that instead of me being bored or wasting time say few hours in a day doing a hobby or watching Netflix, might as well use that for something useful. I can say I'm happy to learn something new and sure I enjoy it, but I feel like I need some kind of structure and end goal, not just going on Youtube learning new stuff about another field like accounting, or getting different certifications for my field

As for the PhD - assess what you enjoy about your work. If the degree will bring you more of that then go for it (though I concur with avoiding debt). Recognize that a Director / CTO role likely moves your toward an "administrative-heavy" role.

I don't enjoy coding anymore and I think I want to transition to management and just leading people. I can envision myself being in that executive or director role. I don't like the idea of going into debt as well

Would you still do it if you had the $60k in cash laying around? I can think of a lot more fun things to do with $60k.

Very good question and I did this exercise. If I have 60k right now, I'll complete our full emergency fund (working on it but should be done in 1 year because most of our cash went to our home so our net worth is really tied to 250k house DP 350k to retirement, turning 34 years old)

then the rest, we will spend about 10k doing some renovation on the house, 10-20k for future vacations/travel, then maybe get a newer car.

So yeah 60k is a lot of money where we can put some of it to savings, to house renovation, to travelling and to shopping

[disneysteve]

I don't enjoy coding anymore and I think I want to transition to management and just leading people. I can envision myself being in that executive or director role.

The the question becomes if the PhD is needed or helpful in moving in that direction. It sounds like the answer is no from what you've said. Look around. How many people are you aware of in those positions now? How many of them have a PhD?

[scfr]

Instead of going for your PhD, is there a certification or other less-expensive further education you could get that would help you reach your goals, perhaps not 100% of the way but maybe 80%? And if so, would your current employer pay for it?

An analogy would be someone who wants to climb a mountain and decides that while Mt. Everest might be out of reach, Mt. Fuji isn't!

[disneysteve]

Instead of going for your PhD, is there a certification or other less-expensive further education you could get that would help you reach your goals, perhaps not 100% of the way but maybe 80%? And if so, would your current employer pay for it?

Exactly. If you want to work toward transitioning into management, focus on additional training that will help get you there. Maybe some community college business and management courses. You'll spend far less than 60K to do that and you'll get something that could actually make a difference in your career.

[kork13]

A few options you might consider:
- Does your employer offer any sort of tuition assistance/reimbursement program (or similar)? That might be an avenue to make it more affordable.
- Not many private scholarships exist for PhD candidates (to my knowledge), but I have heard of certain universities sponsoring a PhD candidate, so you could try investigating those type of options.
- Are you dead set on National University? Others might be less costly.
- If you want to get into the management/executive side, why not focus on an MBA instead? This seem to be more commonly sought for C-Suite folks, and will probably be more meaningfully considered by employers. Sure, you already have a Masters, and a PhD is technically a higher level degree ... But a PhD is more about research or experimentation to develop depth of expertise in a very specific area, whereas an MBA is more focused on learning broad business concepts & practical application of them into running a business. Most MBAs will also be alot less costly than $60k.