Random Thoughts

[skives]

Sometimes I have random thoughts and I wonder what other people think about things. I think that is why some of us post here.

One thing I have been thinking about lately is for the way capitalism works does that mean some people win and some lose? More specific example of what I was thinking was in order for some people to win does that mean some people need to be homeless?

Just a random thought.

[james.hendrickson]

Sometimes I have random thoughts and I wonder what other people think about things. I think that is why some of us post here.

One thing I have been thinking about lately is for the way capitalism works does that mean some people win and some lose? More specific example of what I was thinking was in order for some people to win does that mean some people need to be homeless?

Just a random thought.

Well - yeah. Not everyone is equally skilled at making money. So...results differ.

[disneysteve]

One thing I have been thinking about lately is for the way capitalism works does that mean some people win and some lose? More specific example of what I was thinking was in order for some people to win does that mean some people need to be homeless?

Absolutely not. Success isn't pie. Me getting a slice doesn't mean there's less for anyone else. There is absolutely no excuse for tolerating poverty and hunger and homelessness and other social issues in our society. The problem is that one group is desperately trying to address them while the other group is actively doing everything they possibly can to make the problems worse. Until everyone agrees to work together to solve the problems, they will continue to exist, which is incredibly sad. We have all the resources to put an end to all of that suffering. We, as a society, just don't have the common goals to do so.

[ua_guy]

Sometimes I have random thoughts and I wonder what other people think about things. I think that is why some of us post here.

One thing I have been thinking about lately is for the way capitalism works does that mean some people win and some lose? More specific example of what I was thinking was in order for some people to win does that mean some people need to be homeless?

Just a random thought.

For capitalism to perpetuate itself, it needs enough hungry people to keep playing the game. Nobody needs to be homeless, but the existence of homeless people is the reality created by a capitalist society. That's the truth, and a capitalist would say homelessness is a choice, don't blame capitalism.

[disneysteve]

For capitalism to perpetuate itself, it needs enough hungry people to keep playing the game.

The problem is how heavily the game is rigged.

[myrdale]

We're misplacing the cause of homelessness here. The greater majority of the homeless have serious mental issues or drug addiction. Previously these people who would have lived out their lives as wards of the state are now turned away to live on the street. And in many cases the drug and alcohol use is / was an attempt to self medicate to a certain extent.

I had a 20 something year old guy come up panhandling to me last week. There were four businesses with "NOW HIRING" signs within eye shot of where we were standing on the sidewalk. But rather than put in a job application he was happy to go around and beg for money.

Capitalism is not a zero sum game. Everyone who participates benefits.

The average Americans' understanding of money and markets and finance is pretty bad. I did have the advantage of taking an economics class while I was in school, which was one of my favorite classes outside of my major.

If you're looking for a good read, get a copy of Basic Economics by Thomas Sowell. It is worth the read and will give you alot more random thoughts, and maybe a few answers as well.

[skives]

Absolutely not. Success isn't pie. Me getting a slice doesn't mean there's less for anyone else. There is absolutely no excuse for tolerating poverty and hunger and homelessness and other social issues in our society. The problem is that one group is desperately trying to address them while the other group is actively doing everything they possibly can to make the problems worse. Until everyone agrees to work together to solve the problems, they will continue to exist, which is incredibly sad. We have all the resources to put an end to all of that suffering. We, as a society, just don't have the common goals to do so.

I’m just spit balling here but not everyone can be a doctor even if everyone was smart enough. We need other professions.

So do people or companies that make billions of dollars need to pay their employees more? I always hear people say about low paying jobs if you to make more money then getting a better paying or skilled job but what if you were hired at one of these low paying jobs at full time? Should a full time employee be entitled to a living wage based on inflation or something else?

[Fishindude77]

The problem is that one group is desperately trying to address them while the other group is actively doing everything they possibly can to make the problems worse.

Do you really believe there is some large organized group of people so hateful that they wish poverty and despair on others?

There are certainly greedy people who try to get their share and as much more as possible, but actually intentionally trying to make things worse for others ..... I think that's a stretch.
There's always going to be a small element of society that is evil, but I've always felt that the majority of people in society are good people with their hearts in the right place.

[myrdale]

I’m just spit balling here but not everyone can be a doctor even if everyone was smart enough. We need other professions.

This is the perfect example of the power of the free market and economics!

If "everyone was a doctor" suddenly the pay scale for that job would plummet. Maybe medical school prices would reduce some, but probably not substantially. Sooner or later one of these doctors is going to look around and realize there is no one driving septic trucks, so he'll hang up his coat and start pumping crap and be the richest man in the country!

[myrdale]

Do you really believe there is some large organized group of people so hateful that they wish poverty and despair on others?

Just look at the videos of the looting occuring in Philadelphia right now. A mob of people arrive at a business, tear the doors off, and take what every they want.

[disneysteve]

We're misplacing the cause of homelessness here. The greater majority of the homeless have serious mental issues or drug addiction. Previously these people who would have lived out their lives as wards of the state are now turned away to live on the street. And in many cases the drug and alcohol use is / was an attempt to self medicate to a certain extent.

Exactly. Slashing funding for mental health care and other programs to support this population has only led to more homelessness, substance use, and the crime that goes along with those things. If we as a society want to have a meaningful impact, we need to prioritize funding all health care and especially mental healthcare.

As a doctor, I've certainly seen this problem first hand for the past 30 years. And I've seen it personally as well. I firmly believe that the only reason our daughter is still alive and functioning in society is because we've been able to afford the $800+/month for her mental health treatment. But most people couldn't begin to do that, so they end up "self medicating" as you said and many unfortunately end up on the streets, or dead.

[disneysteve]

I’m just spit balling here but not everyone can be a doctor even if everyone was smart enough. We need other professions.

So do people or companies that make billions of dollars need to pay their employees more? I always hear people say about low paying jobs if you to make more money then getting a better paying or skilled job but what if you were hired at one of these low paying jobs at full time? Should a full time employee be entitled to a living wage based on inflation or something else?

Of course we need all sorts of professions. We need doctors and lawyers and engineers but we also need trash collectors and janitors and restaurant servers and everything in between. But how can anyone do those "lesser" jobs (not to imply they aren't important but societally they are not considered as prestigious) if doing so means they can't afford housing and food and insurance and transportation.

You mention "full time" but we all know the games employers play. Only giving those workers just enough hours each week to keep them under the threshold at which benefits need to be provided. So the workers can go out and get a 2nd or even 3rd job but that still leaves them with no health insurance or retirement plan or sick time.

[ua_guy]

It's basically a race to the bottom, and you see that as wages no longer keep pace with inflation, productivity, or even time spent working. There is no moralism in capitalism and a lot of people and businesses hide behind that fact and only do things in self-interest or profit. We've played the game long enough to start to see how it ends. Just like the game of Monopoly.

[disneysteve]

Do you really believe there is some large organized group of people so hateful that they wish poverty and despair on others?

We could debate how "large" the group is but it is large enough with enough people in positions of power to perpetuate the problems.

We've discussed this here plenty of times. Lots of people like to blame poverty on the poor, and it just doesn't work that way. Do some people make bad choices? Absolutely. But in many ways the deck is stacked against them from the start, literally from birth in many cases, so it's not an even playing field making it exceedingly difficult to get ahead. Sure some people succeed in rising out of poverty, but they're the exception, not the norm.

[skives]

You mention "full time" but we all know the games employers play. Only giving those workers just enough hours each week to keep them under the threshold at which benefits need to be provided. So the workers can go out and get a 2nd or even 3rd job but that still leaves them with no health insurance or retirement plan or sick time.

What I was saying is do you think full time employment in day a fast food or grocery store entitles those works to a living wage?

I definitely understand the games employers play to keep workers from obtaining full time status but just like everyone can’t be doctors not every employer needs all full timers but as I type this I am rethinking that statement.