Used cars are still expensive

[QuarterMillionMan]

I like your recommendation and set my parameters to 2022 - 2023 new under $23,000 and a few popped up but 3 cylinder ICE vehicle, I've never heard of such a small engine. There was also a 2023 Renegade for the same price.

[QuarterMillionMan]

This is the 2023 Renegade. Also, I would settle for a new 2021 or 2022 if i can get an even better deal.

[ua_guy]

I like your recommendation and set my parameters to 2022 - 2023 new under $23,000 and a few popped up but 3 cylinder ICE vehicle, I've never heard of such a small engine. There was also a 2023 Renegade for the same price.

The Geo Metro had a 3-cylinder base engine back in the day, back when GM was sourcing the car from Isuzu. These little cars for GM and Jeep/Stellantis help offset the impact of the larger trucks and SUV's for CAFE standards. They get fantastic fuel economy and should feel peppy enough around town with a turbo and direct injection. The Trailblazer comes from GM's South Korean operations. The Renegade is based on a Fiat.

[QuarterMillionMan]

Hybrids are high in demand.

[disneysteve]

Hybrids are high in demand.

I've been saying all along that hybrids are the way to go over pure EVs. They just make a whole lot more sense for most people. Have a car that uses electricity for the first 50 or 60 miles or so, which covers most people's day to day driving. Then the gas engine only kicks in for longer trips eliminating range anxiety of getting stranded somewhere with a dead battery nowhere near a charging station. For the average working person, a tank of gas in a hybrid will probably last a month or two or longer.

I suspect my next car will be a hybrid since Toyota announced that this is the last year for the gas Camry. Starting in 2025 they will all by hybrids.

[disneysteve]

One potential issue with widespread adoption of hybrids (or pure EVs for that matter) is that gas usage will drop dramatically resulting in mass closure of gas stations since they will no longer be sustainable businesses. Around here, it's very common for there to be 2 or even 3 gas stations at the same intersection. If most people start using 1/4 or 1/8 of the amount of gas they use now, we simply won't need all of those stations.

[bjl584]

One potential issue with widespread adoption of hybrids (or pure EVs for that matter) is that gas usage will drop dramatically resulting in mass closure of gas stations since they will no longer be sustainable businesses. Around here, it's very common for there to be 2 or even 3 gas stations at the same intersection. If most people start using 1/4 or 1/8 of the amount of gas they use now, we simply won't need all of those stations.

I wonder with the larger chain stations (WaWa, Sheetz, Buckeyes) how much of their revenue comes from fuel and how much comes from everything else that is available there.

[disneysteve]

I wonder with the larger chain stations (WaWa, Sheetz, Buckeyes) how much of their revenue comes from fuel and how much comes from everything else that is available there.

I think a big chunk must come from fuel because for Wawa at least, they have steadily eliminated their store-only locations and replaced them with store/gas station locations close by. There are only a handful left in my area that don't sell gas.

[kork13]

One potential issue with widespread adoption of hybrids (or pure EVs for that matter) is that gas usage will drop dramatically resulting in mass closure of gas stations since they will no longer be sustainable businesses. Around here, it's very common for there to be 2 or even 3 gas stations at the same intersection. If most people start using 1/4 or 1/8 of the amount of gas they use now, we simply won't need all of those stations.

I continue to be astounded that gas stations aren't jumping on the EV charger train .... Start upgrading your electrical infrastructure & install charge stations -- you can charge fees off of the chargers, while simultaneously boosting traffic in your store while people wait for the car to charge up. Seems like a no-brainer to me, but clearly I'm the only one who thinks that way....

[ua_guy]

I've read that there is some activity was gas stations getting in on EV charging. I know from experience Circle K in California is doing EV charging, and their chargers are good. 7-11 is getting into charging. Shell is too, with almost 54k locations globally. I'm not sure how many of those are in the US. Implementation of EV charging alongside gas does seem slow to become reality, though.

I am not a fan of hybrids but I understand why they're popular. They offer benefits of EV while assuaging pure-BEV fears around range, recharging, etc. The reality is the cars are massively complex, expensive to build, heavy compared to their ICE counterparts, while only offering a fraction of true EV benefit. Repairs are still expensive, parts are expensive and often vehicle-specific and change rapidly through model years, they still use lithium batteries that fail and degrade. Charging can be slow, if the hybrid allows plug-in charging at all.

As I've been discussing in various posts, we added an EV with an advertised (and true to life) 324 mile range to our fleet alongside my ICE. The EV has become the preferred vehicle, including for longer trips. The ease of living with it has already surpassed my expectations and I'll readily admit charging and EV technology still has time before it becomes a lot better. It's already really, really good. I wouldn't trade this for a hybrid, that's for sure.

[disneysteve]

I continue to be astounded that gas stations aren't jumping on the EV charger train .... Start upgrading your electrical infrastructure & install charge stations -- you can charge fees off of the chargers, while simultaneously boosting traffic in your store while people wait for the car to charge up. Seems like a no-brainer to me, but clearly I'm the only one who thinks that way....

Wawa stations all (or mostly all) have chargers. I think the challenge is with regular old gas stations that just have 4 or 6 pumps. They don’t have the space to install chargers. If gas use drops those are the businesses that will be threatened.

[crazyliblady]

I've been saying all along that hybrids are the way to go over pure EVs. They just make a whole lot more sense for most people. Have a car that uses electricity for the first 50 or 60 miles or so, which covers most people's day to day driving. Then the gas engine only kicks in for longer trips eliminating range anxiety of getting stranded somewhere with a dead battery nowhere near a charging station. For the average working person, a tank of gas in a hybrid will probably last a month or two or longer.

I suspect my next car will be a hybrid since Toyota announced that this is the last year for the gas Camry. Starting in 2025 they will all by hybrids.

I have heard that it is very expensive to replace the batteries in an hybrid or probably even an EV. How much does it cost to do this? Or does it depend on the make, model, or age of the car?

[LivingAlmostLarge]

Just bought our used EV and don't love the drive but it serves it's purpose.

[kork13]

Just bought our used EV and don't love the drive but it serves it's purpose.

What did you end up with? And what do you not like, the car itself or the weird disconnected feeling while driving it?

[LivingAlmostLarge]

we bought two used cars last month. The one I don't love is the 2021 Tesla modey Y. $32k. Decided that it was worth the minor savings for used car. New out the door would have been around $58k minus possibly the $7500. I am unsure if we would qualify so that's not a guarantee.

We are thinking of subscribing to the FSD $99 instead of buying since the breakeven is 6.5 years ($8000). I don't know if it's worth buying? I'm willing to listen to both sides. The reason we are hesitant to buy it is that we might sell the car or what if something happens before the 6.5 years (another totalled car). Then you wasted money. Keep it longer and we'll lose money. But 6.5 years seems long. Of course they could also raise the price. But then again if they do then the purchase price will likely also go up.

We don't like the drive or build quality. Build quality just isn't equivalent to a luxury car. The ride is really poor as well. It rides heavy and is not very comfortable. But we bought it for the FSD which is basically extremely good "driver" assist. I would not call it full self driving and I would not depend on it as such. It is a great safety feature and my DH is the primary driver and needs it and uses it. But it's NOT perfect and anyone claiming otherwise is lying. We've had it since saturday and used it in many different scenarios.

During the rain it had the words "FSD is degraded. please be aware" Meaning it couldn't really see lines on road or objects. It doesn't work in parking lots well. It doesn't do stop signs well. It struggles under imperfect conditions. I'm betting it does poorly in snow. Everyone who "talks" about it is probably in TX, CA, AZ. Other states with inclement weather well honestly it's not going to be easy to use. But we aren't using it for long trips yet mostly just to and from work. So it's fine.

Other car is a cute 2011 subara impreza. Okay after a minivan wowza. LOVE how cute and sporty and light it is to drive. It's so easy to park and flip anywhere. It's really low but it's fun. But you actually have to drive with no rear view camera, no bells and whistles.