Home safes

[moneybags]

I've decided to get a home safe. It will be used for a few important docs - will, birth certificates, etc. and a few small valuables. Any recommendations? Should I get one that bolts down, etc?

[disneysteve]

I think a portable box is good if you ever need to evacuate quickly. Harbor Freight has some nice ones at good prices.

[bjl584]

I have a big heavy one that bolts to the concrete floor in the basement.
It has a lot of documents in it, but it was primarily designed to hold guns.

It's large and heavy enough that someone isn't going to simply walk off with it.

[ua_guy]

One of my fears is having all the important documents go up in a fire. The other is that they are stolen opportunistically via the safe being pried with a crowbar and a sledge. So if I was going to do it, I'd look into something that was fire-rated for a good amount of time, that bolts to concrete or floor joists, and would need hydraulic tools or a plasma cutter to open it up. That kind is not going to be cheap. They're generally heavy enough that it would be a heckuva chore for even two guys to haul it off.

My parents used a safety deposit box at a bank location for a long time. Good thinking - don't keep the really important stuff at home.

[Fishindude77]

I have a big heavy one that bolts to the concrete floor in the basement.
It has a lot of documents in it, but it was primarily designed to hold guns.

It's large and heavy enough that someone isn't going to simply walk off with it.

I have the same.
A safe you can pick up and leave easily with doesn't provide much security.

Fireproof file cabinets are another good option.

[myrdale]

I have a 12 gun safe and a smaller fireproof safe (probably 18" x 18" x 18"). That said,safes are the illusion of security.

If I am gone on vacation for a week, or at work for the day, a portable battery powered grinder will get you into either safe in minutes.

If there is a house fire maybe my papers will survive, I doubt it.

[james.hendrickson]

All - weighing in here. I have a metal gun cabinet, and keep firearms and precious metals in there.

This hasn't come up in the thread, but I wanted to say it for the benefit of anyone reading this thread.

People seem to have a cavalier attitude towards owning guns. Firearms are, by design, deadly weapons. You are morally obligated to minimize the risk associated with owning them. So, if you have firearms in your home, they need to be kept locked and secured. This is basic common sense. It is especially the case if you have children or guests.

So, if you own guns, yes lock them in a safe. Get the best one you can reasonably afford. Don't worry if you have pay an extra $100 or $200. And, yes bolt it down.
.

[myrdale]

People seem to have a cavalier attitude towards owning guns. Firearms, are by design, deadly weapons. You are ethically obligated to minimize the risk associated with owning them. So, if you have firearms in your home, they need to be kept locked and secured. This is basic common sense. It is especially the case if you have children or guests.

Teaching gun safety to children is another big part. From the age of 5 or so I was shooting BB guns. Probably around age 8 it was .22 rifle. Around 12 it was a 20 gauge shot gun. All along the way my father was instructing basic gun safety.

Always control the direction the muzzle is pointed.
Never point the muzzle at anyone.
Keep your finger off the trigger until you're ready to fire.
Always know your target, and whats behind the target.
*Don't transport a loaded firearm. Keep it unloaded until your ready to shoot.
Always double check the ammo your shooting.

I did hunter / gun safety in 4-H camp around 6th grade. I'd recommend looking into this at a younger age, 3rd or 4th grade, and then repeating later on.

*My own conceal carry remains loaded and secure at all times. Outside of that no loaded firearms in the house.

[Fishindude77]

Teaching gun safety to children is another big part. From the age of 5 or so I was shooting BB guns. Probably around age 8 it was .22 rifle. Around 12 it was a 20 gauge shot gun. All along the way my father was instructing basic gun safety.

Always control the direction the muzzle is pointed.
Never point the muzzle at anyone.
Keep your finger off the trigger until you're ready to fire.
Always know your target, and whats behind the target.
*Don't transport a loaded firearm. Keep it unloaded until your ready to shoot.
Always double check the ammo your shooting.

I did hunter / gun safety in 4-H camp around 6th grade. I'd recommend looking into this at a younger age, 3rd or 4th grade, and then repeating later on.

*My own conceal carry remains loaded and secure at all times. Outside of that no loaded firearms in the house.

Agree with all of the above. We live rural and guns are around all the time, part of every day life. Most are locked up, but we keep a few handy for personal protection as well as varmint elimination when the opportunity presents.
If they're locked up in a safe you'll never be able to react quick enough in either of the above instances.

I grew up that way, our kids did too and our grandkids are getting schooled the same way. They know darned well to keep their hands off them with no adults around and we show them how to use them safely under strict supervision.
We also keep them out of reach of the curious little ones, it's just common sense.

Bet you could go into half of the homes in our rural neighborhood and find unlocked guns, and nobody is getting stupid with them or having accidents.
If you didn't grow up that way it's probably hard to understand, but guns are just another tool every household has and uses, and safety is just part of the deal.

[ua_guy]

Bet you could go into half of the homes in our rural neighborhood and find unlocked guns, and nobody is getting stupid with them or having accidents.

...Yes, we all know that the rural cohort doesn't think "common sense" gun safety applies to them because "nobody is getting stupid with [guns] or having accidents". Heard it all before. But this thread isn't about guns, is it. It's actually about safes and what kind the OP was thinking about buying.

[james.hendrickson]

Agree with all of the above. We live rural and guns are around all the time, part of every day life. Most are locked up, but we keep a few handy for personal protection as well as varmint elimination when the opportunity presents.
If they're locked up in a safe you'll never be able to react quick enough in either of the above instances.

I grew up that way, our kids did too and our grandkids are getting schooled the same way. They know darned well to keep their hands off them with no adults around and we show them how to use them safely under strict supervision.
We also keep them out of reach of the curious little ones, it's just common sense.

Bet you could go into half of the homes in our rural neighborhood and find unlocked guns, and nobody is getting stupid with them or having accidents.
If you didn't grow up that way it's probably hard to understand, but guns are just another tool every household has and uses, and safety is just part of the deal.

@Fishingdude77 - I respect your obvious financial acumen and your obvious good sense. I'm just looking at the science here and I'm seeing that storing firearms when they're not loaded and locked is a risk factor for accidents. In any event that's what Miller et all found when they looked at the data.

------------------------------------

Firearm storage practices and rates of unintentional firearm deaths in the United States
Matthew Miller ¹, Deborah Azrael, David Hemenway, Mary Vriniotis

Abstract

Background: The American Academy of Pediatrics and the American Medical Association recommend storing firearms unloaded and locked up to minimize the chance of injury. Although these recommendations appeal to common sense, no study has yet addressed whether firearm storage practices influence the risk of unintentional firearm injury.

Methods: Negative binomial regression analyses were used to assess the cross sectional relation between firearm storage practices and rates of unintentional firearm death in the United States, controlling for rates of firearm prevalence, poverty and urbanization. Recently available state-level measures of household firearm prevalence and firearm storage practices were obtained from the 2002 Behavioral Risk Factor Surveillance System. Unintentional firearm death counts and population data came from the National Center for Health Statistics.

Results: Independent of firearm prevalence, urbanization, and poverty, a disproportionately large share of unintentional firearm fatalities occurred in states where gun owners were more likely to store their firearms loaded, the greatest risk occurring in states where loaded firearms were more likely to be stored unlocked.

Conclusion: Our findings provide empirical support for recommendations issued by the AMA and the AAP that firearms should be stored unloaded and locked, and suggest that promoting safer storage practices could save many lives.

------------------------------------

[disneysteve]

Folks, this thread is about SAFES, not guns. Please stay on topic.

[myrdale]

Bet you could go into half of the homes in our rural neighborhood and find unlocked guns, and nobody is getting stupid with them or having accidents.
If you didn't grow up that way it's probably hard to understand, but guns are just another tool every household has and uses, and safety is just part of the deal.

This was definitely the case in our household growing up. My father kept 10 or 12 long rifles and shotguns in a gun cabinet with glass panels and another half dozen in closets or under beds. The cabinet had a latch, but I don't know if the key ever existed. Either way they were never loaded.

His .22 pistol remained loaded, but it stayed on top of the refrigerator when it wasn't on his hip or in the truck glove box. His hunting rifle would often be propped up in the corner of the den on days he was planning to go hunting, but again was never loaded.

My mother kept/keeps a 20 gauge double barrel shotgun on rack above her bed. It stays loaded. Similarly to my father's handgun, my mother's .45 stays on top of the hutch loaded when it's not on her hip.

I do not own one, but I have heard very good reviews for the smaller handgun safes. Some practice is necessary so you know you can unlock it at a moments notice, unless you don't mind asking the burglar to sit tight for a minute until you figure it out. Also while it may be common sense, once you have the safe you must keep it locked. My uncle had close to $10,000 worth of firearms stolen when their house was robbed while on vacation. He had left the door to the safe wide open. As I said earlier the safe is only the illusion of security. If I want in your safe I am going to get into it. But if I only have a 5 minute window to get in and out of your house, I might not even try.

[kork13]

In my opinion, the biggest factor for a home safe is fire protection -- that's what I really see as the greatest threat. My only interest is having a secure, fire-safe box in an outside corner of the house or garage where recovery would be most feasible. Keep important documents & irreplaceable possessions in there. Another solid option from a fire protection standpoint -- you can just keep a copy of key documents in a plastic bag in the bottom of a chest freezer. Made of metal with built-in insulation, most freezers will survive a house burning down just fine.

Sure, a dedicated thief COULD break into any given safe with sufficient time & tools. But would they? Not likely, as long as you don't make yourself a target (nicest house/cars on the block with outward signs of opulence & wealth). Most of the time, home burglaries are focused on rapidly getting in, grab whatever they can, and get out quickly. If a safe is present but secured to the floor/wall, most burglars won't waste time trying to get into it, especially if an intrusion alarm is blasting.

[corn18]

I have two large safes in my basement. The big one is for guns. It weighs 600 lbs and no one will carry it off. I have 3000 rounds of ammo stored next to the gun safe. The smaller safe weighs 300 lbs and is for documents. It is fire rated and flood rated. The reason for the safes is to give me a sense of security and I know where the stuff is. Not sure how effective they are, but I like having the guns and papers in them vs. just laying about.

My MIL has the samll safe from Costco that weighs 25 lbs. It is not for security. It has a good fire rating and is up on the second floor on a shelf, so it isn't going to flood. That's why she has it. A safe deposit box would work, but the last time I tried to get one there was a year waiting list.