ABC's 20/20 "Whatever happened to the middle class"?

[sv2007]

I will disagree with your assessment. Having a society where there is a stable middle class is more important for the country than allowing the privileged 20% to keep getting more and more (and yes, I am part of that 20%, so I know things will cost more for me, but its better in the long run). As for China, its fake news all the time. Their economic information is all made up numbers to keep the good times going. Sound familiar? Think the financial crisis here in 08-09. The powers that be there know they are lying but are trying to manage the economy to a soft landing which may work, but is likely to only make it worse. If (when) the world realizes how bad their economy is it will be like a bank run and China will be in a lot of pain fast. In the end China needs us much more than we need them.

That all said, if there is an economy that could overtake the US, China is it. But it will take a century or two, if they ever do it. The E.U. could have done it too, but by doing things half way when they created it they guaranteed it would crash and burn, and we're seeing it start already.

Well, in this case, I suppose the phrase "nobody can predict the future" applies.

However, considering that China is capable of making stuff and its large consumer base, it is imaginable that its economy can be self-sustaining (which seems to be the direction we are headed: build more factories, raise interest rates). Fake econ news or not, the fact is that China has a large population and has the technology to make stuff.

As for 08-09, I agree with you that our government make serious mistakes (e.g. the 100-week unemployment benefit --> if people are getting paid to not work, then there'll be less incentive to really find work). Even the mortgage bailouts (buying failed loans) probably damaged the robust return. And giving unbelievable high tax rebates (forogt the year, but it is completely unfair as the higher tax payers didn't get any) it like putting money China's pockets because the low-income people with poor financial management just goes and buys the next consumer electronics. Totally mismanaged the08-09 downturn; should have just let it ride it out.

So, in a way, we're headed back to a more government-managed economy with the trade and physical barriers that seem to talked about in the news. Based on history, isolated economy never seem to work out the in long run for any country. Since we are talking China, they isolated themselves for years (oh, wait, how about North Korea?); or even the Napoleon's continental system (and this was almost the entire relevant world as far as French thought).

Trade barriers works for the short term but it's got problems in the long term. When things are expensive, economic development slows. If my company has to pay $100 to develop a new product vs $50 today, we'll have 1/2 fewer new ideas each year tomorrow. But in the short term, the US has a far enough lead that things will look good.

[rennigade]

However, considering that China is capable of making stuff and its large consumer base, it is imaginable that its economy can be self-sustaining (which seems to be the direction we are headed: build more factories, raise interest rates). Fake econ news or not, the fact is that China has a large population and has the technology to make stuff.

China better focus on environmental regulations or they wont have to worry about their economy for much longer. They'll all be dead from air pollution.

[disneysteve]

I've found that most will walk away when confronted and not take the test, rather than get caught and embarrass themselves.

We do drug testing as part of our practice. The failure rate, especially for marijuana, is high, definitely more than 2%. That is partly a function of location, though. I work in a very poor area where drug use is commonplace. Nobody ever refuses the test. They figure they might as well take their chances and hope it comes up negative. It's not costing them anything. Of course, all of those positive tests waste the company's time and money but the applicant doesn't care.

[Nutria]

China better focus on environmental regulations or they wont have to worry about their economy for much longer. They'll all be dead from air pollution.

Also, China's population is economically very divided. The farther from the coast you get, the much poorer they become.

And the factory workers are paid nothing, similar to US and European workers before they (fought bloody battles to become) unionized. (Of course, they do belong to a "union", but it's the bogus All-China Federation of Trade Unions.)

[StormRichards]

We do drug testing as part of our practice. The failure rate, especially for marijuana, is high, definitely more than 2%. That is partly a function of location, though. I work in a very poor area where drug use is commonplace. Nobody ever refuses the test. They figure they might as well take their chances and hope it comes up negative. It's not costing them anything. Of course, all of those positive tests waste the company's time and money but the applicant doesn't care.

Not only does the potential candidate not care, but we have had many occurrences where referrals from current employees failed the test. When they find out their friend or family member didn't get the job, it doesn't phase them.

I remember a time when people only gave referrals for people they didn't think would make them look bad.

[disneysteve]

Not only does the potential candidate not care, but we have had many occurrences where referrals from current employees failed the test. When they find out their friend or family member didn't get the job, it doesn't phase them.

I remember a time when people only gave referrals for people they didn't think would make them look bad.

My all time favorite story is from years ago when my wife was a retail manager. She was calling an applicant's references and the person asked if my wife had a current address for the applicant. When she asked why, he told her that there was a warrant out for his arrest for stealing from the job and they hadn't been able to track him down.

I guess the guy didn't think anyone would actually check the references he listed. What a moron.

[rennigade]

I guess the guy didn't think anyone would actually check the references he listed. What a moron.

My dad has a bunch of people that work under him. Hes a maintenance supervisor...his crew maintains the building/complex...but he also oversees the cleaning crew (janitors.) They had a position open so they took resumes. One questions was: List any work related skills that would make you a good candidate for this position. The guy answered: basketball ...lol

Another was do you have any felonies...if so what? Girl answered...yes...will discuss after I am hired. haha...wut??

Needless to say those two applicants arent on the top of the list.

[Spiffster]

You think things are bad with unskilled labor these days, just wait until automation and AI really hit their stride. We havent seen anything yet. A LOT of jobs are going to go away soon... most obvious, transportation. Just about anyone in that industry is already on borrowed time. Then manufacturing, good luck bringing those jobs back from China BTW... not that anyone here wants them in the first place but they will get automated just as fast. Raising the minimum wage will only accelerate this.

Now with all these millions of people out of a job how do you think they are gonna vote? Elon Musk probably has a better idea than most as to how things will play out in the future and he's already talking about universal basic income.

[sblatner]

Another problem is that houses are just too expensive! And whose fault is that? It's the builders' fault! They aren't building affordable housing! No one wants these nice houses they are building. Reality check: Builders aren't building houses for social justice; they are building for profit, and almost always building a house because they know it will be in demand.

I live near Burlingame. In our area, the problem is not with the builders, it is with supply and demand. Facebook is building a new building for 5,000 new employees but there are no houses/apartments for them to live in. We bought our 1500 square foot ranch house for $300k in 1994 (and we thought that was a fortune) and it is worth $1.5M+ (depending on what someone would pay to buy it). Apartments in this area rent for $2100 for a 468 square foot studio. Prices are increasing because of tech workers having stock options. If you think about it, even a family that makes $100k can't afford to buy a place here and really can't afford to rent a place after paying taxes, etc.

If a family makes minimum wage, they cannot afford to live in an apartment on two wages. Most end up living multiple families to an apartment and sharing the kitchen. RVs are the new normal for many families. They park on side streets and live in them. We have so many homeless kids in our schools (homeless means not necessarily living in a shelter but not having a permanent living arrangement either). It is a truly a sad state of affairs.

[greenskeeper]

This isn't about politicians. It is about gross distortion of truth and the withholding of relevant facts by a supposed news organization. It was one hour of unadulterated elitist, liberal propaganda under the auspices of journalism. What's new?

YES!

[Spiffster]

I know we want to avoid political discussion but how is this any different at all than any of the conservative biased news outlets? I see the same exact biased crap, propaganda when I watch Fox News or CNN.

[Singuy]

The lack of compassion for median household earners astonishes me here. I believe there was a survey done before on what the household income was for SA members. Most people on the forum makes over 100k/year. Of course you guys think any documentary about the lower income earners are "fabricated biased fake news".

Understand statistics, Americans who make over 100k/year are in the top 5%. Not everyone can get into real estate, become a doctor, or do what you do to have a household income of over 100k/year.

So when there's a documentary about lower income Americans who are selling plasma trying to get by, BELIEVE IT and stop calling it biased fake news.

[Nutria]

The lack of compassion for median household earners astonishes me here. I believe there was a survey done before on what the household income was for SA members. Most people on the forum makes over 100k/year. Of course you guys think any documentary about the lower income earners are "fabricated biased fake news".

Understand statistics, Americans who make over 100k/year are in the top 5%. Not everyone can get into real estate, become a doctor, or do what you do to have a household income of over 100k/year.

So when there's a documentary about lower income Americans who are selling plasma trying to get by, BELIEVE IT and stop calling it biased fake news.

I see no bias against median earners. (I do see bias against median earners trying to live beyond their means.)

[Nutria]

Just so happens that my company and thousands of other companies across the US are starving for skilled tradespeople. We happen to need industrial construction trades, but all of the skilled trades are having the same problem. There is a serious nationwide shortage of people entering the trades.

These are safe, full time, well paid jobs. You need to be drug free, reliable, decent personal appearance, good attitude and some basic math and reading skills. We will teach the skills. Average wage at our place is $20 / hr with a full benefit package. Take on some supervision and work a little OT and $70-100K per year isn't out of the question.

Most kids won't do the work. They think it's beneath them to get their hands dirty or to work outdoors in the weather. They've been brainwashed in the schools to think getting your hands dirty is low class and that everyone is entitled to work in an air conditioned building. Sadly, many prefer to smoke dope and live a lazy, laid back "poor" lifestyle working in retail and places where they can get by with showing up late, looking like a slob, etc.

DISCLAIMER - Please do not lump residential or light commercial construction into these categories I am calling skilled trades. This is typically the bottom of the barrel in the trades, many illegals, no insurance, no benefits, low pay, unsafe conditions, etc.

How much of this is because public high schools have all become "college prep" and there is no more Shop Class nor Home Economics?

[corn18]

And there is significant demand for skilled trades in manufacturing as well. I'm not sure if all the talk of automation killing off manufacturing has caused the shortage of skilled manufacturing labor, but I can't find a descent manufacturing engineer or supply chain manager to save my life. Called my brother who is head of HR for Bridgestone America and he offered me the rejects he has working for him. I would start a good ME at $100k+ if I could find one. I would pay a good supply chain manager $135k. Plus full benefits. None to be found. What the heck are all these kids studying in college anyway?

People have been yammering on about how automation is killing off manufacturing jobs and here I am running a manufacturing plant and can't find people. I'm going to have to automate not because it saves me money, but I can't find any good workers. This is nuts.

And you don't need a degree to be skilled. I hired a non-degreed engineer last year who had 30 years of experience. The job required a masters or Phd and he had an associates degree. But he is smarter than most of the engineers that do have a degree.

If you want a job, come to the Detroit area with some manufacturing skills. I will get you a job. Seriously, send me your resume.