ABC's 20/20 "Whatever happened to the middle class"?

[bigdaddybus]

Before long we won't have this problem as much: The fast food joints are quickly moving to robots/kiosks/automation that is eliminating a bunch of labor.

Kiosks generally don't call in sick, use profanity, or demand $16 an hour for $7 an hour's worth of work.

So much true here!!!

I work in a fortune 50 company that this year added kiosks to place orders so the cafe employees can fill orders rather than take them. Self service salad bar with scale and credit card reader, etc.

It is all very impersonal, and noone I have asked likes it. What I find interesting is that my company is focusing strongly on customer interactions in all the business we do, all while the vender that serves our meal are impacting employees with automated impersonal food service.

[Singuy]

Number one, a good clue they are filling viewers full of b.s. is by embellishing the story. Hasn't seen a movie in 20 years? Give me a break.

If a 437 square foot apartment is renting for $780 a month, I don't call that a LCOL area.

You can rent in the nicest neighborhood in my city for that amount per square foot per year - all brick, all the fancies.

Considering something like this goes for 3-4x in HCOL area, I wouldn't know what to call your area. Very LCOL? And I don't even know how people make their ends meet in HCOL area with their min wage at 13-15 dollars/hr but rent is 2k+.

Orlando's average house prices are below the national average. The national median is $234,900 and our median house prices are $181,900. Objectively, this is a LCOL area.

[TexasHusker]

Considering something like this goes for 3-4x in HCOL area, I wouldn't know what to call your area. Very LCOL? And I don't even know how people make their ends meet in HCOL area with their min wage at 13-15 dollars/hr but rent is 2k+.

Orlando's average house prices are below the national average. The national median is $234,900 and our median house prices are $181,900. Objectively, this is a LCOL area.

Those expensive places like Burlingame/San Francisco just need to raise the minimum wage some more - that'll fix it!

[TexasHusker]

So much true here!!!

I work in a fortune 50 company that this year added kiosks to place orders so the cafe employees can fill orders rather than take them. Self service salad bar with scale and credit card reader, etc.

It is all very impersonal, and noone I have asked likes it. What I find interesting is that my company is focusing strongly on customer interactions in all the business we do, all while the vender that serves our meal are impacting employees with automated impersonal food service.

I think that will be addressed soon. Artificial intelligence advances will allow robots to be more personal.

Stay tuned.

[Singuy]

Those expensive places like Burlingame/San Francisco just need to raise the minimum wage some more - that'll fix it!

Or everyone just needs to go read a few books, take out some loans, throw away their kids, and better themselves in this competitive world right? Since you are successful, anyone can do it right? If they can't then they are just lazy/made bad decisions/pretending to be poor/loves government assistant and loves being the victim.

This is what happens with capitalism. Not everyone can be a winner, in fact most people ends up falling behind. To those who knows how to play the game, their lives are better than any other system we know of. The system was never designed so everyone can win...not even close.

[StormRichards]

Based on the fact that one guy haven't watched a movie in 20 years, I seriously doubt he is spending 4 dollars/day on coffee.

He has missed some really good movies. I highly recommend "Secret Life of Pets". I couldn't stop laughing!

[LivingAlmostLarge]

Assume that it's an apples to oranges comparison for housing and minimum wage.

TH you posted before people could retire with a pension and be set for life on the last page. Your dad has a $3500/month pension worth around $1m. So how do you get that now? How does someone doing the same job as your dad save that much to have that much?

The people who started 401ks admits they are failing and about to crater as people retire and realize they have PEANUTS saved. That trying to save as much as they would have gotten from a pension has not happened. That the assumptions were wrong. Telling people "oh 3% savings rate will get you enough with a 7% return". Can't tell you how wrong that is.

So maybe homes are bigger and cost more. But retirement is still the same and no unlike 30 years ago there is many less pensions to fall back on. And health care/health insurance has skyrocketed.

[StormRichards]

So much true here!!!

I work in a fortune 50 company that this year added kiosks to place orders so the cafe employees can fill orders rather than take them. Self service salad bar with scale and credit card reader, etc.

It is all very impersonal, and noone I have asked likes it. What I find interesting is that my company is focusing strongly on customer interactions in all the business we do, all while the vender that serves our meal are impacting employees with automated impersonal food service.

My employer hasn't got to that point yet but it won't surprise me if/when they do. Constantly filling my inbox about how we interact with customers but they treat us like sh*t. I remember when coffee and a water cooler was the norm in every department. Now coffee drinkers are forced to go outside or pay a higher price in the cafe. It is against policy to even have a coffee pot plugged in your work area. Water (brown) can be had for free at the fountains, or you can buy a special water bottle for a self service kiosk for flavored water. I buy a case of bottled water at Aldi for $1.99 to $2.29 and bring it in with my lunch.

[Nutria]

That's $120 a month!

You missed the eye roll sarcasm.

[Nutria]

Yep...$1,440/year. That will go really far for a family of 4. I wonder what kind of vacation that would offer? Heck in 3 weeks my wife and I will spend around $900 for 3 days of skiing and rentals. Just for skiing, no food, no lodging, no car rental, etc etc. $1,440 isnt what it used to be.

This perfectly makes TH's point: 60 years ago, skiing was for the upper class; middle class Mom, Dad & the kids hopped in the Chevy and drove to Yellowstone, the Grand Canyon, Chattanooga, etc, etc.

[rennigade]

This perfectly makes TH's point: 60 years ago, skiing was for the upper class; middle class Mom, Dad & the kids hopped in the Chevy and drove to Yellowstone, the Grand Canyon, Chattanooga, etc, etc.

What was his point? Skiing is still expensive...but so is spending long weekends at national parks. Has anyone been to yellowstone or the grand canyon lately? Its not cheap...even if you live a couple hours away. Hotels around those hot tourist spots arent cheap. A weekend trip to the beach...at least where I live isnt cheap at all for a family of 4.

[Nutria]

What was his point? Skiing is still expensive...but so is spending long weekends at national parks. Has anyone been to yellowstone or the grand canyon lately? Its not cheap...even if you live a couple hours away. Hotels around those hot tourist spots arent cheap. A weekend trip to the beach...at least where I live isnt cheap at all for a family of 4.

Sigh.

The upper classes took expensive upper class vacations, and the middle class took less expensive middle class vacations.

(If "middle class" vacations have gotten more expensive, it's because middle class people -- stimulated by commercials and KUWTJ -- want to act/spend richer than they are, thus putting it all on a CC, paying it off... whenever.)

[disneysteve]

This perfectly makes TH's point: 60 years ago, skiing was for the upper class; middle class Mom, Dad & the kids hopped in the Chevy and drove to Yellowstone, the Grand Canyon, Chattanooga, etc, etc.

What was his point? Skiing is still expensive...but so is spending long weekends at national parks. Has anyone been to yellowstone or the grand canyon lately? Its not cheap...even if you live a couple hours away. Hotels around those hot tourist spots arent cheap. A weekend trip to the beach...at least where I live isnt cheap at all for a family of 4.

Both of you make valid points.

Things that used to be upper class experiences, are now enjoyed by the masses. However, at the same time, things that used to be within reach of the average working person have gotten far more expensive.

When I was in high school, we used to go to the Philadelphia Phillies games a lot. There used to be a seating section in center field called the knothole club and seats were 50 cents. Adjusted for inflation from 1980, that would be $1.48 today. Good luck getting into a professional baseball stadium today for $1.48. I just looked at a game in April and tickets start at $23 and I'm sure there are service fees added to that, plus $10 or $20 for parking, plus $8 for a hot dog and $5 for a Coke.

[TexasHusker]

Or everyone just needs to go read a few books, take out some loans, throw away their kids, and better themselves in this competitive world right? Since you are successful, anyone can do it right?

Are you kidding? I would have to live in a single wide to live in Burlingame.

[rennigade]

When I was in high school, we used to go to the Philadelphia Phillies games a lot. There used to be a seating section in center field called the knothole club and seats were 50 cents. Adjusted for inflation from 1980, that would be $1.48 today. Good luck getting into a professional baseball stadium today for $1.48. I just looked at a game in April and tickets start at $23 and I'm sure there are service fees added to that, plus $10 or $20 for parking, plus $8 for a hot dog and $5 for a Coke.

I was going to bring up sporting events but didnt want to stray too far...but since you made a good point...

Was speaking with my FIL this weekend. When he was in college in the 70s in ft lauderdale...he had season tickets to the miami dolphins. Total cost for the entire season was $75! My dad has a friend who has season tickets to the steelers...a single game costs $230 for one seat.

Im not sure what $75 adjusted for inflation is but it may not even equate to a single NFL game.

When my dad and mom go to a game...between driving there, hotel, food, 2 tickets...they're pushing $600-$700. Good luck for a factory worker with a family of 4 ever attending an NFL game. Depending on how much they can save from each pay check...it may take them several months for a family of 4 to attend a single game. Its kind of heart breaking if you ask me.