ABC's 20/20 "Whatever happened to the middle class"?

[Jbone]

I think most are neglecting to realize that it's harder to find good paying "middle class jobs" Things definitely have changed over the years on how employers hire. Cost of living? What happened to no experience necessary? On the job training? Especially for middle class-blue collar jobs. Now I am sure they are out there, but definitely not as widely available as they once were! If you had no experience, or college degree most turned to a blue-collar job and stuck it out.

My dad and I actually got into this subject not long ago. I remember asking him what his starting pay was when he got out of the army and transitioned into civilian life in the early 70s. He got hired off the street at a local oil refinery with ZERO experience as a pipe insulator in the maintenance department. He said he walked in the front office, said he was looking for a job. The girl behind the desk said here's an app fill it out. The hr manager came out of his office, looked at the app, hired him right on the spot.

$3.00 /hr. $3.00.. well what is that after inflation? https://data.bls.gov/cgi-bin/cpicalc...973&year2=2016 2016 dollars that's $16.31.

Now he was there for almost 40 years until he retired. His ending salary was 35.45 /hr. So lets think about this. My dad started his career, mind you its not the most glamorous however it paid decent enough to BUILD a modest 1800 sq ft house on an acre lot in the late 70s. Support my mom and 2 kids (me and my sister) AND save for retirement with a low 7 figure portfolio at the time of retirement.

I'm not aware of many companies hiring off the street that provide on the job training at 16/hr full time 40/hrs a week plus benefits. Truth be told, even 16/hr in today's cost of living wouldn't get you very far.

[creditcardfree]

I
The main one is that our parents parents...that generation specifically...the husband worked and the wife would stay at home. They could live off his salary, afford a home, take a vacation...and could still save for retirement and pad their savings. My parents generation...my mom was stay at home until the kids were in school then she joined the workforce. My generation...I dont know any of my friends who have kids where one is a stay at home parent. Not a single one...both adults work. Both working parents really arent any farther ahead than their grandfather was back in the day.

How is that possible?

It's possible. I'm a stay at home mom (our children our now 16 and 19). My husband works full time and he earns $115K currently. Ten years ago he earned half of that amount, and he worked one full time and two part time jobs to make it work. We didn't have cable tv or new cars, we didn't have cell phones for many years, we skipped the extras on our home phone. We conserved energy, did repairs ourselves at times, cooked at home and so forth. It can be done, don't believe what 20/20 told you. They probably didn't examine their spending at all!

[rennigade]

What is interesting is that the stereo-typical millennial doesn't give one whit about home ownership and social status.

"Just give me my free healthcare and a coffee shop within 100 yards of my apartment."

"Never mind that my parents spent $150K on my college diploma. I'm going to work in a bike shop".

How does a 50 year old know what the stereotypical millennial wants? Sounds like you're also being spoon fed garbage news from the major media outlets? Either that or you hang around a lot of hipster millennials?

Also...you seem very angry over this whole subject. You are the textbook stereotypical angry white man that voted for trump. You give the rest of those who voted for trump a bad name.

[feh]

So sad that some people dismiss anything produced by ABC/NBC/CBS as unreliable. Clearly the propaganda being pushed by Fox/Limbaugh/Breitbart/Palin has been very effective.

[disneysteve]

So sad that some people dismiss anything produced by ABC/NBC/CBS as unreliable. Clearly the propaganda being pushed by Fox/Limbaugh/Breitbart/Palin has been very effective.

So sad that yet another thread has devolved into a political rant.

This problem started long before Trump, long before Obama. Can we please stop making every topic somehow about the 2016 election?

[rennigade]

$3.00 /hr. $3.00.. well what is that after inflation? https://data.bls.gov/cgi-bin/cpicalc...973&year2=2016 2016 dollars that's $16.31.

Now he was there for almost 40 years until he retired. His ending salary was 35.45 /hr. So lets think about this. My dad started his career, mind you its not the most glamorous however it paid decent enough to BUILD a modest 1800 sq ft house on an acre lot in the late 70s. Support my mom and 2 kids (me and my sister) AND save for retirement with a low 7 figure portfolio at the time of retirement.

I'm not aware of many companies hiring off the street that provide on the job training at 16/hr full time 40/hrs a week plus benefits. Truth be told, even 16/hr in today's cost of living wouldn't get you very far.

Its amazing how anything ever got done 30 years ago without a college education. I mean...college is so wonderful that EVERYONE should go...get some sort of degree...and be weighted down in $100k in debt right from the starting line. Its the most genius scam in the history of the world. Burden young professionals with enormous sums of debt. Its the perfect recipe to keep them at bay.

I work with several people in IT. Barely any of them have a degree in information technology. I know one is accounting, one is something communication, other psychology. Why in the actual F did they blow 10s of thousands of dollars in a degree that serves no purpose in the field they work? They were all trained on site...one is an administrator and the other is a network architect. And they're both making $40/hr+.

Is there any job that anyone can think of that when you start they sit you down...walk away...and expect you to hit the ground running? Typically there is a lot of training that is involved. Yes you'll need to know the absolute basics...other than they you are taught on site. Maybe engineers are the exception?

Sooo many jobs could be taught on site without a college education. It would be nice to see employers have team members whos only purpose is to train new hires in the role they want them to fulfill. Something along those lines.

Im looking into getting a new job in the near future. Its for a software tester. You need to know the very basics on how to use a computer. They do a 6 month "boot camp" to train you and bring you up to speed. There should be more of this. Job doesnt even require a college degree and they pay really well.

[disneysteve]

Why in the actual F did they blow 10s of thousands of dollars in a degree that serves no purpose in the field they work?

Because a great many jobs require applicants to have a college degree. It doesn't need to be in a related field necessarily. That's why we've stressed to our daughter that her choice of major isn't critically important. What matters is broadening her knowledge base, honing her critical thinking skills, and being adaptable and willing to learn.

[rennigade]

So sad that some people dismiss anything produced by ABC/NBC/CBS as unreliable. Clearly the propaganda being pushed by Fox/Limbaugh/Breitbart/Palin has been very effective.

It is unreliable. And anyone that thinks Fox is reliable may want to jump off a cliff because they're a danger to society. I know vice is still unbiased and probably the absolute best place to get real news. The young turks used to be ok but now they suck. I heard things about RT but never really watched it.

[rennigade]

Because a great many jobs require applicants to have a college degree. It doesn't need to be in a related field necessarily.

Right...because employers demand it. Still doesnt make any sense. Again how did people 30 years ago get good jobs without proving that they had this amazing critical thinking, work ethic, social skills, etc etc? A lot of the jobs are still the same yet require some sort of paper certificate that proves you spent a lot of money.

Take Texas or 97...not sure if texas has a degree but almost positive 97 doesnt. They jumped into real estate and have had a lot of success. Hows that possible without some sort of business degree to instruct them? Should we believe they learned this on their own...through trial and error...by doing research on their own? That sounds crazy in todays world. Not only is it crazy but its frowned upon according to "professionals."

[StormRichards]

It would be nice to see employers have team members whos only purpose is to train new hires in the role they want them to fulfill.

The company I work for used to have several trainers on staff YEARS ago. Sadly those are the type of jobs that many companies deem expendable when they are looking to slash payroll.

[bennkar]

Just in case you think the above is good for the US -- here's my take. It'll be good for the short term but very bad in the long term. US will lose it's #1 economy to China faster if the above happens.

What good is being the #1 economy? Well, what good is being #1 in sports? The pay difference isn't all that different between top players; but the extras, the endorsements can be much different. Same with countries, initiatives and direction for the world can be set since so much of the world is run on money.

I think I'll hate it when that day comes; but for now, things are looking good for the US and the us middle class

I will disagree with your assessment. Having a society where there is a stable middle class is more important for the country than allowing the privileged 20% to keep getting more and more (and yes, I am part of that 20%, so I know things will cost more for me, but its better in the long run). As for China, its fake news all the time. Their economic information is all made up numbers to keep the good times going. Sound familiar? Think the financial crisis here in 08-09. The powers that be there know they are lying but are trying to manage the economy to a soft landing which may work, but is likely to only make it worse. If (when) the world realizes how bad their economy is it will be like a bank run and China will be in a lot of pain fast. In the end China needs us much more than we need them.

That all said, if there is an economy that could overtake the US, China is it. But it will take a century or two, if they ever do it. The E.U. could have done it too, but by doing things half way when they created it they guaranteed it would crash and burn, and we're seeing it start already.

[Nutria]

It's possible. I'm a stay at home mom (our children our now 16 and 19). My husband works full time and he earns $115K currently. Ten years ago he earned half of that amount, and he worked one full time and two part time jobs to make it work. We didn't have cable tv or new cars, we didn't have cell phones for many years, we skipped the extras on our home phone. We conserved energy, did repairs ourselves at times, cooked at home and so forth. It can be done, don't believe what 20/20 told you. They probably didn't examine their spending at all!

OTOH, industry has spent billions of dollars learning how to convince people to do the exact opposite of that.

You deserve a break today... so get up and get away...

[Fishindude77]

What happened to no experience necessary? On the job training? Especially for middle class-blue collar jobs. Now I am sure they are out there, but definitely not as widely available as they once were! If you had no experience, or college degree most turned to a blue-collar job and stuck it out.

I'm not aware of many companies hiring off the street that provide on the job training at 16/hr full time 40/hrs a week plus benefits. Truth be told, even 16/hr in today's cost of living wouldn't get you very far.

Just so happens that my company and thousands of other companies across the US are starving for skilled tradespeople. We happen to need industrial construction trades, but all of the skilled trades are having the same problem. There is a serious nationwide shortage of people entering the trades.

These are safe, full time, well paid jobs. You need to be drug free, reliable, decent personal appearance, good attitude and some basic math and reading skills. We will teach the skills. Average wage at our place is $20 / hr with a full benefit package. Take on some supervision and work a little OT and $70-100K per year isn't out of the question.

Most kids won't do the work. They think it's beneath them to get their hands dirty or to work outdoors in the weather. They've been brainwashed in the schools to think getting your hands dirty is low class and that everyone is entitled to work in an air conditioned building. Sadly, many prefer to smoke dope and live a lazy, laid back "poor" lifestyle working in retail and places where they can get by with showing up late, looking like a slob, etc.

DISCLAIMER - Please do not lump residential or light commercial construction into these categories I am calling skilled trades. This is typically the bottom of the barrel in the trades, many illegals, no insurance, no benefits, low pay, unsafe conditions, etc.

[bennkar]

As far as I am concerned, ABC joins CNN in the fake news club. This segment cemented it for me.

Elitist Liberalism is the undoing of this country. Our problems are the result of greedy rich people and it's the government"s job to fix it. Can't buy a home? Let's pass legislation that allows you to for nothing down, and sponsor it with Freddie and Fannie. Then when housing inflation runs wild and the bubble pops, we can blame it on greedy rich people.

Can't go to college? let the government fund it through grants or guaranteed student loans. Then when inflation is runaway and it's $25K per year to attend a state school, blame it on inflation and give it even more gas.

Can't afford health insurance? Let the government underwrite it. We see where that is headed.

Don't make enough? By all means jack up minimum wage. The greedy businesses can afford it. They can live on less. And when everything doubles in cost as a result, that means we probably didn't raise it quite enough. Let's raise it some more.

Can't afford a car? Give the government your car in trade for a brand new one with $2000 of taxpayer dollars, at a cost to taxpayers of $3 billion (yes, billion). Oh and rather than donating all those clunkers to poor people, we will just destroy all of them.

+ 1,000

Really you didn't go far enough. If a housing lender felt the potential borrower was not a safe person to lend to, then lets sue them for (fill in your favorite "ism") unless the borrower is a het-white male. Yeah, what could go wrong with that policy. ABC does mention the increase in housing size, but then ignores how that affects housing costs. And they could have discussed how low interest rates have caused housing prices to increase... but no ... of course not.

With guaranteed college loans for years, and the schools advertising for years that parents should pay for school, of course prices would go through the roof. The saying was "I rob banks because that's where the money is." With colleges it was "go after parents to pay for school because that's where the money is." Going to college used to be about getting an education if you show you're qualified, now its about getting only the best amenities money can buy (that is: your parents can pay for) and anyone should be able to do it no matter their qualifications. With more and more professors being adjunct, its not like the money is going to them.

And cars cost more? Well sure, you're getting better MPGs, XM radio, anti-lock brakes, blind spot sensors, back up cameras, integrated GPS systems, much better emission controls, air pressure sensors, rust protection, and so on. Take the price of a car 40-50 years ago, increase that amount by CPI increases to today, and use that money to buy a used car today. I guarantee that used car will be head and shoulders better than the car you could get for the money back in the day.

That said, I think the cash for clunkers was a decent idea, but the implementation was very poorly done. It was designed to help the car manufacturers only, and only a small subset of car owners. If you didn't own the right vehicle... no soup for you. It could have helped more people, but it would have been politically unpopular so the better way never happened. *sigh*

[rennigade]

We happen to need industrial construction trades, but all of the skilled trades are having the same problem. There is a serious nationwide shortage of people entering the trades.

These are safe, full time, well paid jobs. You need to be drug free, reliable, decent personal appearance, good attitude and some basic math and reading skills. We will teach the skills. Average wage at our place is $20 / hr with a full benefit package. Take on some supervision and work a little OT and $70-100K per year isn't out of the question.

Most kids won't do the work. They think it's beneath them to get their hands dirty or to work outdoors in the weather. They've been brainwashed in the schools to think getting your hands dirty is low class and that everyone is entitled to work in an air conditioned building. Sadly, many prefer to smoke dope and live a lazy, laid back "poor" lifestyle working in retail and places where they can get by with showing up late, looking like a slob, etc

Not to mention skilled trade jobs also provide you an easy way to have a side business/side work. There are a lot of homes out there that have ac units, water heaters, electrical, plumbing, etc etc. Theres never a shortage of work available for those with skilled trades.

And like you said...kids coming up have had it drilled into their heads that skilled work is beneath them...thats 100% correct. That work in a climate controlled comfortable environment is the only way to go.

Oh and btw...I also enjoy smoking dope and I dont consider myself lazy...im doing pretty well...and this weekend I got ba ba barbecued! Another stereotype that has been drilled into everyones heads through the use of propaganda...brought to you by the US government.