You really should be driving an electric car

[Singuy]

I think GM did a very poor job marketing the vehicle. Most people today still don't know how the thing worked. I doubt having a very small 2 cylinder generator under the hood - akin to a lawn mower engine - really drove up the cost to any degree. The scheme was brilliant. An all electric car that could go from coast to coast without worry, and when you ran low on electric range, the generator recharged it. This was the ticket to EV adoption by the masses.

Barring a massive infrastructure build-out and some big time new battery technology and super-fast charging, pure EVs aren't going to be mainstream for a long, long time. Most of the folks buying Teslas are comparatively rich and are buying it for a novelty and for a second car for around town. That's not going to cut it.

GM's marketing budget is 2 BILLION dollars/year! So if they did a "very poor job' marketing anything, then it's absolutely intentional.

[disneysteve]

GM's marketing budget is 2 BILLION dollars/year! So if they did a "very poor job' marketing anything, then it's absolutely intentional.

Having deep pockets doesn’t guarantee you always get it right. See “New Coke” as a reference.

[james.hendrickson]

Having deep pockets doesn’t guarantee you always get it right. See “New Coke” as a reference.

Correct.

[Singuy]

Having deep pockets doesn’t guarantee you always get it right. See “New Coke” as a reference.

Many companies try to game the system by making an electric car at low volumes solely for the purpose of pooling them in EU or China so they don't have to pay regulatory credit penalty to companies like Tesla. They have very little intentions of selling EVs because it has negative margins(limited by battery supply from 3rd parties) and difficult to service. But most importantly, they don't want you to buy a low margin car for their higher margin gas cars. Sometimes you scratch your head why BMW would make the ugliest EV in the world. It's so they don't have to pay a fine in places with strict environmental standards.

[corn18]

Many companies try to game the system by making an electric car at low volumes solely for the purpose of pooling them in EU or China so they don't have to pay regulatory credit penalty to companies like Tesla. They have very little intentions of selling EVs because it has negative margins(limited by battery supply from 3rd parties) and difficult to service. But most importantly, they don't want you to buy a low margin car for their higher margin gas cars. Sometimes you scratch your head why BMW would make the ugliest EV in the world. It's so they don't have to pay a fine in places with strict environmental standards.

The i8 is ugly?

[TexasHusker]

GM's marketing budget is 2 BILLION dollars/year! So if they did a "very poor job' marketing anything, then it's absolutely intentional.

So are they intentionally running the company poorly, too, I assume?

[Singuy]

The i8 is ugly?

That's a plug in hybrid. The i3 is their pure EV

[Singuy]

So are they intentionally running the company poorly, too, I assume?

They are running their company to the best of their ability to make the most profit, which means sell more gas cars, and use low volume EV cars to offset penalties. Which means...drumroll....->poor marketing of their EV line. Also the definition of being intentional.

[TexasHusker]

They are running their company to the best of their ability to make the most profit, which means sell more gas cars, and use low volume EV cars to offset penalties. Which means...drumroll....->poor marketing of their EV line. Also the definition of being intentional.

hmmm. That’s scary.

[Singuy]

While we're on the topic, evidently famed investor Michael Burry has taken a short position against Tesla.

From CNBC:


Source: CNBC.

So discussions of battery length aside, there could be real concerns about the viability of the major player in the electric car industry.

Fake News debunking time.

The 13-F filing is showing Burry has 8000 PUT contracts on Tesla, which essentially means he controls 800,000 shares. He did not bet half a billion dollars against Tesla. His bet is about 8-10 million dollars(the cost of the 8000 put contracts) depending on his strike price/cost. So if Tesla share price doesn't hit his unknown strike price, his put contracts expire worthless meaning he lose the premium that was paid. However if his put contracts becomes in the money, every dollar beyond the breakeven amount ends up making him 800000 dollars.

[TexasHusker]

Have a friend who just bought a high end Audi EV sedan. So far so good. It’s strictly an in-town car though.

[disneysteve]

Have a friend who just bought a high end Audi EV sedan. So far so good. It’s strictly an in-town car though.

I can't see ever buying an "in-town car". If I can't hop in and drive it to Maryland or Florida or New York or Niagara Falls or wherever, I don't want it.

[TexasHusker]

I can't see ever buying an "in-town car". If I can't hop in and drive it to Maryland or Florida or New York or Niagara Falls or wherever, I don't want it.

Well that’s partly the point. People are buying Teslas to look rich and cool. They’re parking it in a three car garage next to their Range Rover and hard-loaded Toyota Tundra Extended Cab.

Anyone who thinks the current EV buyer is making their purchases based on saving the planet is stoned out of their mind. EVs are hugely expensive compared to a comparably-equipped ICE car.

EVs are firmly in the “Exotic” class of vehicles and will continue to be for some time.

And by the way, I think Teslas are uber cool and I might have to buy one myself someday!

[TexasHusker]

I’ll add this: EVs won’t be mainstream until the average working stiff can pick up a 15 year old one for $5K. I don’t know if EVs will be worth a darn at $5K, but plenty of ICE cars are perfectly fine at that price point. Most people don’t buy high end new cars. Most don’t even buy high-end used cars. Joe Sixpack just needs a cheap, reliable rig to get him to his job at the sanitation plant.

[Singuy]

Well that’s partly the point. People are buying Teslas to look rich and cool. They’re parking it in a three car garage next to their Range Rover and hard-loaded Toyota Tundra Extended Cab.

Anyone who thinks the current EV buyer is making their purchases based on saving the planet is stoned out of their mind. EVs are hugely expensive compared to a comparably-equipped ICE car.

EVs are firmly in the “Exotic” class of vehicles and will continue to be for some time.

And by the way, I think Teslas are uber cool and I might have to buy one myself someday!

I dont think many people thinks buying solar and an ev is saving the planet. It's for the top 1% and me personally waste more resources than the average tree hugger...who thinks to truly save the planet we should all bike to work. Infact I had debates with true tree huggers who are anti Tesla. Their claim is we should push people to become minimalist, not drive flashy 2 ton cybertrucks.

But what I do believe is supporting a company that is pioneering the way for the transition to sustainable energy as its mandatory eventually. This means driving down cost of batteries,, drive trains,, having a robust infrastructure, laying the blue print on how EVs should be to create desirability. Because what a company like Tesla is doing CAN move the needle by inciting competition and forcing them to do it right or else no one wants to switch.

I am already frustrated at all these legacy car companies that can't get tiny details right that leaves nothing but fear for those sitting on the side lines.

Like someone with a Ford Mach E arrived at a charging station STILL under construction, leaving the person almost stranded. And then when the station is working, it random cuts off charging.
Or Nissan didn't add a battery management system in their Leaf which caused battery degradation more laptop like. These software and hardware issue should never happen. The amount of naysayers are of abundance so the last thing you want is to have their fears realized.