You really should be driving an electric car

[james.hendrickson]

Fake News debunking time.

The 13-F filing is showing Burry has 8000 PUT contracts on Tesla, which essentially means he controls 800,000 shares. He did not bet half a billion dollars against Tesla. His bet is about 8-10 million dollars(the cost of the 8000 put contracts) depending on his strike price/cost. So if Tesla share price doesn't hit his unknown strike price, his put contracts expire worthless meaning he lose the premium that was paid. However if his put contracts becomes in the money, every dollar beyond the breakeven amount ends up making him 800000 dollars.

Singuy - thank you, this is a helpful explanation. I really appreciate it.

[ua_guy]

sorry, I love polar bears and all, but I'm not going to be driving this thing. Can you imagine how it would feel to absorb even a 20 mph collision? You'd be taking a dirt nap whilst the bears frolic on the ice bergs.

An article I read made me think of this comment. The little EV's actually punch above their weight. The Bolt weighs over 3500lbs, which is as much as a Toyota Camry (for reference).

The new Hummer EV which has a ~350 mile range and does 0-60 in 3 seconds, has the equivalent of 1,000hp, tips the scales at more than 9,000 lbs. Nine thousand pounds!! Let's hope a Bolt never collides with an EV Hummer going the opposite direction. Or anything else less than about a Class 5 Freightliner. The Hummer is likely a little fatter than a Suburban, but weighs as much as a medium-duty commercial truck. (a 3500 dually would be lighter weight in comparison).

Singuy noted above that ICEs are detrimental to safety, so combined with heavier weight AND better crash manners, I'd think a lot of EV's provide a leg up on safety too. Well, maybe not for the guy in the other vehicle.

https://jalopnik.com/gmc-hummer-ev-will-be-heaviest-electric-car-yet-1846919153?utm_campaign=Jalopnik&utm_content=1621362664&utm_medium=SocialMarketing&utm_source=facebook&fbclid=IwAR2C1b-O9Kw0gwiOtoDx0qREm3BzES_G36HjJ-k5VnDBJ_woJWmokW5rlpI

[ua_guy]

The new electric Ford F150 pickup looks pretty darn good, eh?

I was pleased to see it getting some positive coverage.

[Singuy]

The new electric Ford F150 pickup looks pretty darn good, eh?

I was pleased to see it getting some positive coverage.

A very good effort, however their pricing structure is very confusing and misleading.

40k gets you the 230mi version of the truck without the 15 inch touch screen and it's very stripped down.
53k gets you the 230 mi version that looks like what is presented
and 90k gets you the 300 mi version.

That's kind of ridiculous IMO, pricing wise.

[ua_guy]

A very good effort, however their pricing structure is very confusing and misleading.

40k gets you the 230mi version of the truck without the 15 inch touch screen and it's very stripped down.
53k gets you the 230 mi version that looks like what is presented
and 90k gets you the 300 mi version.

That's kind of ridiculous IMO, pricing wise.

I'm interested to see what the range estimations are for any significant payload or towing. But I think they have the right packaging and pricing, except for the last tier. An additional $37k for 70 more miles of range doesn't seem worth it, alone.

[TexasHusker]

A very good effort, however their pricing structure is very confusing and misleading.

40k gets you the 230mi version of the truck without the 15 inch touch screen and it's very stripped down.
53k gets you the 230 mi version that looks like what is presented
and 90k gets you the 300 mi version.

That's kind of ridiculous IMO, pricing wise.

It sounds perfectly logical - just think of all that gas you’re saving!

[bjl584]

$90K is a lot for a half ton truck.
Especially one that wouldn't get me to my cabin and back without plugging it in.
I'd also half to guess that if I tried towing or hauling anything the range would get chopped down pretty quickly.

Good looking truck and a good effort.
But, I'm not going to be giving up my diesel just yet.
The electric F150 just doesn't meet my current needs.

[TexasHusker]

$90K is a lot for a half ton truck.
Especially one that wouldn't get me to my cabin and back without plugging it in.
I'd also half to guess that if I tried towing or hauling anything the range would get chopped down pretty quickly.

Good looking truck and a good effort.
But, I'm not going to be giving up my diesel just yet.
The electric F150 just doesn't meet my current needs.

So I’m an old English major and know pretty much zilcho about mechanical things - that’s why I’m stranded in ABQ actually - but the thing I wonder about with electric trucks is torque. With a diesel, you have lots of available torque for getting out of mud and snow, pulling a boat or trailer, hauling wood, etc. can electric vehicles deliver torque to do these things without blowing the batteries up or zapping them? I mean I have two tree trimmers - an electric and a gas - and the electric one will simply refuse to cut a branch after it’s so big. It wipes it out. The has one will cut anything like a hot knife through a stick of butter.

[bjl584]

So I’m an old English major and know pretty much zilcho about mechanical things - that’s why I’m stranded in ABQ actually - but the thing I wonder about with electric trucks is torque. With a diesel, you have lots of available torque for getting out of mud and snow, pulling a boat or trailer, hauling wood, etc. can electric vehicles deliver torque to do these things without blowing the batteries up or zapping them? I mean I have two tree trimmers - an electric and a gas - and the electric one will simply refuse to cut a branch after it’s so big. It wipes it out. The has one will cut anything like a hot knife through a stick of butter.

The torque curve on an electric motor is instantaneous, so yes. There "should" be a lot of available torque to do work.
But, the batteries holding up, the transmission, and even the truck itself, are different matters all together.

My current truck is an F350.
It's made to do heavy towing and hauling.
Doing so will burn some extra fuel, bad that is about the only downside.

I'd be reluctant to push a half ton truck too hard, even a gasoline one.
An electric one probably wouldn't do too well if you tried to do heavy towing and hauling.
I doubt it would make it all the way to my cabin with a load of firewood and a utility trailer loaded down in tow.
I've done that plenty of times with my current truck.

A truck that can't do truck things is more of a novelty than it is practical.

[TexasHusker]

The torque curve on an electric motor is instantaneous, so yes. There "should" be a lot of available torque to do work.
But, the batteries holding up, the transmission, and even the truck itself, are different matters all together.

My current truck is an F350.
It's made to do heavy towing and hauling.
Doing so will burn some extra fuel, bad that is about the only downside.

I'd be reluctant to push a half ton truck too hard, even a gasoline one.
An electric one probably wouldn't do too well if you tried to do heavy towing and hauling.
I doubt it would make it all the way to my cabin with a load of firewood and a utility trailer loaded down in tow.
I've done that plenty of times with my current truck.

ok so the electric f150 has a gear box? Isn’t that a departure from traditional EVs, where power is right at the wheel?

[bjl584]

ok so the electric f150 has a gear box? Isn’t that a departure from traditional EVs, where power is right at the wheel?

I'm not sure about the mechanics of it.
I would have to do some research.

Supposedly the electric F150 will tow 10,000 lbs.
That is quite a lot.
But, Car and Driver magazine says that if you try to max the truck out the range will be 100 miles or less.
Ok for the "around town" contractor I guess.
Otherwise, you will opting for a truck with a gasoline or diesel engine

[ua_guy]

The EF150 has 775 ft/lb torque. It can accommodate a payload of 2,000 lbs or 1-ton, and can tow up to 10,000 lbs with the extended range battery and max-trailering package.

For comparison, the gas model, a 5.0L gas V8, has 410lb-ft @ 4250rpm.

The difference is, with the E150, that torque is available instantly. With the gas 5.0 you have to wrap it out to 4,250 RPM to get all 410ftlb. If the truck shifts gears, and you're running at 3,500 rpm, you're not making as much torque.

The EF150 uses inboard front and rear motors and a transaxle to deliver power to the wheels. Some cars use in-wheel motors, but in a truck application that's not as practical. Putting them inboard reduces unsprung weight and provides better protection for the motor itself. I'm not sure if braking was a consideration, but full-size trucks need massive brakes, so space might have been a constraint.

bjl484 makes a good point... It's unlikely to see one of these on a job site or in an application that might need to put down several hundred miles per day. But for the average suburbanite who prefers a pickup and uses its full capability on occasion, this could be a great choice.

[TexasHusker]

What is the price delta between a base f150 EV and a comparably equipped gas version ?

[ua_guy]

What is the price delta between a base f150 EV and a comparably equipped gas version ?

https://www.motortrend.com/news/2022-ford-f-150-lightning-electric-truck-price-msrp/

The pricing is quite interesting. The gap widens at higher trim levels but is very close in base configurations. Truck-for-truck it's about an $8500 delta, with the caveat of, the gas version will be equipped at that price with the V6, not the V8.

The EPA estimates the annual fuel cost for a 3.5L V6-equipped (higher trim) F150 is about $2250 per year.

[TexasHusker]

https://www.motortrend.com/news/2022-ford-f-150-lightning-electric-truck-price-msrp/

The pricing is quite interesting. The gap widens at higher trim levels but is very close in base configurations. Truck-for-truck it's about an $8500 delta, with the caveat of, the gas version will be equipped at that price with the V6, not the V8.

The EPA estimates the annual fuel cost for a 3.5L V6-equipped (higher trim) F150 is about $2250 per year.

That makes it pretty compelling for a lot of consumers. It’s still probably got to be a second car proposition. I suppose if folks wanted to take a trip they could just rent a gas car. We took our Volt on a couple of shorter trips but we had the backup generator.