Ethics of Giving to Charity while in Debt?

[Eagle]

Is it ethical to not pay your bills (credit cards, loans, etc.) and give to local charities (churches, causes, etc.)?

Seems a bit like saying "I can't pay you what I owe but I'm going to steal your money and give it away."

Seems a bit like stealing to me.

I know for example Dave Ramsey has said multiple times he tithed to the local church all the way into bankruptcy. Twice.

Anyone else have thoughts on the matter?

[Tabs]

Well, I don't know about ethics, but the matter of tithing really comes down to your religious beliefs.

However, no, I would not say it makes financial sense....

[Eagle]

Well, I don't know about ethics, but the matter of tithing really comes down to your religious beliefs.

However, no, I would not say it makes financial sense....

Is it not a question of ethics when you can't pay your debtors but are giving a portion of your money away to charity? I don't know.

I do agree that it makes no financial sense.

[rennigade]

No its not ethical and it makes no financial sense. So in other words...its probably what most people do.

When you tithe that money isnt going to a god...its going to pay the bills/salaries/activities of the club you belong to. Just an fyi...wasnt sure if everyone knew that.

Also...if you're tithing before you're paying yourself...you also suck with finances.

[GoodSteward]

Understand what you are asking requires religious discussion, and also requires you to step into the shoes of a religious person. From a purely numbers standpoint it doesn't make sense, but from a religious person's standpoint, it is normal. When you start talking about religious subjects it is different than other financial issues. For many, there is a deep religious conviction that supersedes all other financial subjects. I'm going to address this purely from a tither perspective and not debating if you should or shouldn't.

To someone who believes in tithing--Tithing is money owed just like some other bill, however, in this case, it's owed towards God. So in their mind, he gets first priority.

Personally, I've done the same thing. I paid tithes even when I couldn't afford to pay my bills. Why? It wasn't God's fault that I overextended, IMO. The bible says in one spot that not paying tithes is stealing from God. So, there is a strong conviction to keep that up if you feel you should still do it(Some feel it is no longer required). The bible also says you need to pay what you owe, so if you find yourself in a position where you owe more than you can pay you must pick the more important one to keep up. In the eyes of a Christian who tithes, Tithing often get that's spot. Not everybody who tithes feels this way though. I've known of many who believe you should tithe, but don't if they don't have it.

The idea of this is you pay tithes, and then give according to your ability thereafter. I know if you are not religious you feel offerings, tithes, or charity in any way are the same, however, from a tithe paying Christian's standpoint tithing is at the top, and the rest falls after. I say it like that because I know not all Christians believe you need to tithe.

Please remember this isn't a religious forum. I tried to respect that with my reply and just ask others do as well.

[DaveInPgh]

No its not ethical and it makes no financial sense. So in other words...its probably what most people do.

When you tithe that money isnt going to a god...its going to pay the bills/salaries/activities of the club you belong to. Just an fyi...wasnt sure if everyone knew that.

Also...if you're tithing before you're paying yourself...you also suck with finances.

[GoodSteward]

When you tithe that money isnt going to a god...its going to pay the bills/salaries/activities of the club you belong to. Just an fyi...wasnt sure if everyone knew that.

Different churches handle this differently, and some goes to the general account while others it goes directly to pay the pastor --which may be his only income.

From the view of the giver it's being obedient to what they feel is right(Going to God). To the Church, it's their source of income to maintain since they are not for profit. Yes, I know some churches use this as a cover(Looking at you multimillion-dollar TV evangelists living like kings) and I don't agree with it, but that is for another discussion. lol

[rennigade]

What ever happened to buffy? She was a good girl.

[disneysteve]

I don't think it is unethical as long as you are keeping up with the minimum payments on your debts. I think it's an incredibly poor financial decision but not an unethical one.

If, however, you are in default, making late payments, or attempting to negotiate your balances, then it crosses over into being unethical. Making voluntary donations rather than paying bills you legally agreed to pay is a breach of contract as far as I'm concerned.

[rennigade]

From the view of the giver it's being obedient to what they feel is right(Going to God).

And this further proves why L. Ron Hubbard was not only crazy...but was an absolute genius.

[DaveInPgh]

What ever happened to buffy? She was a good girl.

She became Cruel

[Jluke]

If my church (catholic if that makes a difference) was running a better financial program, I'd be more willing to give them money. when the boiler needed to be replaced they begged for money.


It's borderline brainwashing ,with using god as the ultimate guilt trip, to require/expect those who are struggling financially to give away the few dollars they have.

Let them get back on their feet and then they can give again.

Church is definitely not a charity organization, IMO

[GoodSteward]

If my church (catholic if that makes a difference) was running a better financial program, I'd be more willing to give them money. when the boiler needed to be replaced they begged for money.


It's borderline brainwashing ,with using god as the ultimate guilt trip, to require/expect those who are struggling financially to give away the few dollars they have.

Let them get back on their feet and then they can give again.

It's no secret I pastor, but I agree with you. I can't stand it when poor people are made to believe they will be rich by giving what little they have. I personally don't push people to give. I encourage them to give, but I also encourage them to not give beyond their means when I talk to them one on one. I'm probably in a minority that actually tells people it is unwise to give too much money. Give, but be responsible with giving. That's as biblical as giving is. God isn't asking people to give all their money away, man is doing that. That's not how I am.

[Eagle]

Understand what you are asking requires religious discussion, and also requires you to step into the shoes of a religious person. From a purely numbers standpoint it doesn't make sense, but from a religious person's standpoint, it is normal. When you start talking about religious subjects it is different than other financial issues. For many, there is a deep religious conviction that supersedes all other financial subjects. I'm going to address this purely from a tither perspective and not debating if you should or shouldn't.

To someone who believes in tithing--Tithing is money owed just like some other bill, however, in this case, it's owed towards God. So in their mind, he gets first priority.

Personally, I've done the same thing. I paid tithes even when I couldn't afford to pay my bills. Why? It wasn't God's fault that I overextended, IMO. The bible says in one spot that not paying tithes is stealing from God. So, there is a strong conviction to keep that up if you feel you should still do it(Some feel it is no longer required). The bible also says you need to pay what you owe, so if you find yourself in a position where you owe more than you can pay you must pick the more important one to keep up. In the eyes of a Christian who tithes, Tithing often get that's spot. Not everybody who tithes feels this way though. I've known of many who believe you should tithe, but don't if they don't have it.

The idea of this is you pay tithes, and then give according to your ability thereafter. I know if you are not religious you feel offerings, tithes, or charity in any way are the same, however, from a tithe paying Christian's standpoint tithing is at the top, and the rest falls after. I say it like that because I know not all Christians believe you need to tithe.

Please remember this isn't a religious forum. I tried to respect that with my reply and just ask others do as well.

Interesting perspective and explanation. I'm a Christian yet don't believe you have to tithe as it was a command to Israel and nowhere in the Bible was tithing transferred to Christians. Jesus never commanded a tithe to His followers. No apostle or NT writer every commanded any of the churches or followers of Jesus to tithe.

I don't see though how people justify not paying bills and giving to charity. Seems like a bad testimony to me?

[Eagle]

I don't think it is unethical as long as you are keeping up with the minimum payments on your debts. I think it's an incredibly poor financial decision but not an unethical one.

If, however, you are in default, making late payments, or attempting to negotiate your balances, then it crosses over into being unethical. Making voluntary donations rather than paying bills you legally agreed to pay is a breach of contract as far as I'm concerned.

+1 to this