The rich get richer... again

[disneysteve]

There is not a single "normal" 8 year old alive today who in the next 12 years, can't avoid getting pregnant, graduate high school, avoid drugs, attend a community college, find a job, live within their means, avoid debt, invest, and succeed in life. If they choose otherwise, then their financial outcome will be a reflection of their decisions.

Why does every discussion about inequality devolve into blaming poverty on the poor? Now we're even pinning the responsibility on 8 year olds, as if they have any control over their lives until they're at least 18.

I would really encourage those of you who believe this to spend some time working with the poor. Talk to them, see how they live, listen to the challenges and barriers they face on a daily basis that privileged folks like most of us here can't even imagine. As I've said many times, I spent 17 years working in one of the poorest cities in America. If you haven't ever been immersed in that setting, you really have absolutely no idea what it's like.

[Singuy]

Why does every discussion about inequality devolve into blaming poverty on the poor? Now we're even pinning the responsibility on 8 year olds, as if they have any control over their lives until they're at least 18.

I would really encourage those of you who believe this to spend some time working with the poor. Talk to them, see how they live, listen to the challenges and barriers they face on a daily basis that privileged folks like most of us here can't even imagine. As I've said many times, I spent 17 years working in one of the poorest cities in America. If you haven't ever been immersed in that setting, you really have absolutely no idea what it's like.

My mom told me today that our entire household income in China while raising me was 20 US dollars a MONTH. My mom would save 5 US dollars every month, while the rest are for living expenses. Even with 20 US dollars a month, my mom makes a point to save 25% of our income. So yes I was totally immersed in poverty no better than those people(most likely worst) living in North Korea.

I do believe Americans are whiners because they have never really seen poverty. American poverty is like third world luxury. My parents thought they struck gold, making 100x more overnight washing dishes at a restaurant in the U.S. You have no idea how grateful they were, it was a transformative experience. With dish washing salary, my mom managed to up her savings rate to over 50%/month, and sent a good portion of that money back to China to help our extended family.

With that said..I believe there needs to be a systematic change in how this society needs to work toward financial literacy that starts WITH THE PARENTS. I really can't blame children growing up with irresponsible parents eventually learned to be irresponsible themselves with no path to success. The cycle has been happening for decades and it's embedded into the culture. I do like how there's a FIRE movement currently, in conjunction with the minimalist movement. But it's still the outlier, not the norm.

[srblanco7]

Why does every discussion about inequality devolve into blaming poverty on the poor? Now we're even pinning the responsibility on 8 year olds, as if they have any control over their lives until they're at least 18.

I would really encourage those of you who believe this to spend some time working with the poor. Talk to them, see how they live, listen to the challenges and barriers they face on a daily basis that privileged folks like most of us here can't even imagine. As I've said many times, I spent 17 years working in one of the poorest cities in America. If you haven't ever been immersed in that setting, you really have absolutely no idea what it's like.

I'd suggest that we as a Country would be better to reframe this to: "It's our responsibility that every 8 year old alive today, in the next 12 years, avoids getting pregnant, graduates high school, avoids drugs, attends a community college (free), and receives an education in financial literacy. If we provide them this opportunity, then their subsequent financial outcome will improve."

[disneysteve]

I'd suggest that we as a Country would be better to reframe this to: "It's our responsibility that every 8 year old alive today, in the next 12 years, avoids getting pregnant, graduates high school, avoids drugs, attends a community college (free), and receives an education in financial literacy. If we provide them this opportunity, then their subsequent financial outcome will improve."

I love this. Unfortunately, many people don't think it is "our" responsibility. They think it's "everyone for themselves". If a poor person wants to rise out of poverty, it's up to them. Many people believe that everyone in this country has the same opportunities to succeed. That thought would be almost comical if it wasn't so incredibly sad.

[disneysteve]

American poverty is like third world luxury.

"Poor" is definitely a relative term. Overall, the poor in America are in far better shape than the poor in many other places. Here they likely have at least some degree of access to education, health care, food assistance, housing assistance, etc. But that still doesn't mean they have the same opportunities as everyone else.

[Singuy]

"Poor" is definitely a relative term. Overall, the poor in America are in far better shape than the poor in many other places. Here they likely have at least some degree of access to education, health care, food assistance, housing assistance, etc. But that still doesn't mean they have the same opportunities as everyone else.

I think there's always an opportunity to save. My mom ended up saving 25% of our income with a salary of 20 dollars a month. No matter how much my parents made, they had a min savings rate of 25%. They just adjust their spending accordingly. When we were in China, my parents would pour flavor sauce on rice while giving me the little bit of meat they can afford. The fact that the government will provide a family with food stamp assistance just makes it just that much easier because there was no such thing in old China. When there's a will there's a way.

[Fishindude77]

Probably the single biggest problem that creates a lot of the poor is unparented children. It has become commonly accepted that it is OK to reproduce without getting married or parenting.
With birth control so easy to obtain, the amount of babies out of wedlock is nuts.

You stack the odds against a child from birth when you bring them into the world without stable parents. Somehow this isn't getting through.

[disneysteve]

I think there's always an opportunity to save. My mom ended up saving 25% of our income with a salary of 20 dollars a month. No matter how much my parents made, they had a min savings rate of 25%. They just adjust their spending accordingly. When we were in China, my parents would pour flavor sauce on rice while giving me the little bit of meat they can afford. The fact that the government will provide a family with food stamp assistance just makes it just that much easier because there was no such thing in old China. When there's a will there's a way.

Agreed. I wasn't saying saving is impossible. I was just agreeing with you that poverty here looks very different than poverty in third world countries.

[disneysteve]

With birth control so easy to obtain

It's getting harder and harder, especially for the poor. You've got politicians who want to defund Planned Parenthood and religious zealots who want to impose their personal beliefs on everyone else and not cover contraception for their employees. Talking about the poor specifically, although they may have Medicaid, their actual access to care is often still severely limited due to a shortage of providers accepting the insurance and/or transportation issues getting to see someone.

So yes, birth control should be cheap and easy to get but unfortunately it isn't.

[disneysteve]

Probably the single biggest problem that creates a lot of the poor is unparented children. It has become commonly accepted that it is OK to reproduce without getting married or parenting.

There are also much higher rates of drug and alcohol abuse among the poor as well as higher incarceration rates so a lot of kids end up in single-parent situations, or even zero-parent situations because of those sorts of things. I had many grandparents in my practice who were raising their grandchildren because the parents were either locked up, addicts, or dead (usually from either drugs or victims of violence).

[amarowsky]

There are also much higher rates of drug and alcohol abuse among the poor as well as higher incarceration rates so a lot of kids end up in single-parent situations, or even zero-parent situations because of those sorts of things. I had many grandparents in my practice who were raising their grandchildren because the parents were either locked up, addicts, or dead (usually from either drugs or victims of violence).

I'd say addiction to drugs is more often a symptom of poverty... rather than a correlation. It's not often to turn to drugs as an escape from life, when you have an engaging, satisfying, life enabled from reachable opportunities.

[LivingAlmostLarge]

Probably the single biggest problem that creates a lot of the poor is unparented children. It has become commonly accepted that it is OK to reproduce without getting married or parenting.
With birth control so easy to obtain, the amount of babies out of wedlock is nuts.

You stack the odds against a child from birth when you bring them into the world without stable parents. Somehow this isn't getting through.

But actually a lot of people are not getting married and having kids. It's becoming prevalent and the norm in Europe and the US is not far behind. So it's not that you need to get married. And studies show that it's linked to women being financially independent from working that they are choosing to not get married anymore. So I don't think it's that people need to be married to parent and being born out of wedlock is the root of all problems. Probably a bigger issue is that people are having children unthinkingly and accidentally rather than really wanting kids. Married or not.