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    #61
    Originally posted by disneysteve View Post

    I'm sure when bars reopen, they will try to have some rules, but it's obviously far more difficult than in a restaurant. Who is going to want to go hang out in a bar if they have to stay 6 feet away from everyone else? In a restaurant, I wouldn't care if my wife and I were the only ones there. It's not a social activity.

    As for gyms, they are absolutely high risk. Like I said, on the ratings I saw, it was 8 for gyms and 9 for bars so not a big difference. For comparison, indoor restaurant seating is a 6. Gyms are going to be a real problem because everyone moves around, touches the same equipment, and breathes extra hard spewing respiratory particles much more than 6 feet. And wearing a mask would be pretty challenging.

    As for restaurants, a friend in South Carolina just posted a list of places in Myrtle Beach that are re-closing due to the number of employees that have come down with COVID since Memorial Day weekend. All of this reopening might sound good on paper but it's not at all a safe idea for employees or customers.
    This is just my 0.02, which is pretty much worthless. But IMO you can't pick and choose among high risk activities. If they're all deemed high risk, then they should all be shut down. Once they start picking and choosing, it really makes it seem like they have an agenda, and the people in charge lose credibility. In my state, when the stay at home orders were in place, real estate brokers and car dealers were exempted and declared "essential". Why these activities and not other similar level risk ones? Makes it seem purely political and shibai. I'm guessing the restaurant lobby is stronger than the "bar lobby" as being the major difference.

    In a restaurant or bar, you can go with a party of say 4, and stick to your own party. There's literally no difference. Among your own party, no social distancing. Unless you're referring to going up to other tables and hitting on a random blonde? You can do that in a restaurant or outside a restaurant too. No difference. When you have protests and such with tens of thousands of people with no distancing, it makes nitpicking over other business types just seem silly.

    Comment


      #62
      Originally posted by ~bs View Post

      This is just my 0.02, which is pretty much worthless. But IMO you can't pick and choose among high risk activities. If they're all deemed high risk, then they should all be shut down. Once they start picking and choosing, it really makes it seem like they have an agenda, and the people in charge lose credibility. In my state, when the stay at home orders were in place, real estate brokers and car dealers were exempted and declared "essential". Why these activities and not other similar level risk ones?
      I don't think it was inappropriate at all to only close non-essential businesses. However, due to the absence of any Federal COVID response and guidance, each state was left to fend for themselves and make up their own set of rules, and politics definitely played a part in that and continues to do so. There were stark differences in how various states responded based at least partly on the party affiliation of their governors.

      It is problematic that what each state considered essential wasn't the same across the board. It led to confusion and sowed discontent, especially for those living near the border with another state with different rules. For example, initially liquor stores were closed entirely in PA where the state controls them, while across the river in NJ liquor stores remained open (they are private here).

      As for the "real estate brokers and car dealers" comment, it wasn't just about risk level. It was about the need for the business itself. Certainly cars are more necessary than manicures. Home sales are more essential than getting tattoos. So there had to be a line drawn somewhere. The only alternative would have been to shut down absolutely everything and that certainly couldn't happen.

      Now we're starting to see the problems at the other end of the process as things reopen. States are reopening in a phased manner, as they should, but again each state is handling that differently and what falls in each phase varies by location. And we are already seeing how early reopening may have been a mistake based on where cases are still climbing vs. the states that have been more conservative and maintained quarantine longer.
      Steve

      * Despite the high cost of living, it remains very popular.
      * Why should I pay for my daughter's education when she already knows everything?
      * There are no shortcuts to anywhere worth going.

      Comment


        #63
        Originally posted by disneysteve View Post
        At our gym, there is a line of treadmills side by side, for example. That wouldn't work anymore. Gyms haven't gotten permission to reopen yet here but when they do, I certainly expect (and hope) that changes will be made so that there isn't another person working out right next to me, especially if masks are optional.
        Today I looked at the changes at my gym for treadmills and other machines, which are laid out the same for side by side. So not much has changed, besides signs saying 20 min limit on all cardio machines if there is a line to use. I counted maybe 20 people working out total in the buidling when I got there. But it started to pick up when I was leaving after 10am. I didn't see anyone wearing a mask when working out, just employees. Also, they didn't bother scanning my temp when I entered. So I'm guessing that policy lasted maybe 2 days, unless only the gym I went to stopped it. Or may be since barely anyone was in that early it didn't matter? Oh well, I think its a joke if they're not going to enforce their own policy.
        "I'd buy that for a dollar!"

        Comment


          #64
          Originally posted by cypher1 View Post

          Today I looked at the changes at my gym for treadmills and other machines, which are laid out the same for side by side. So not much has changed, besides signs saying 20 min limit on all cardio machines if there is a line to use. I counted maybe 20 people working out total in the buidling when I got there. But it started to pick up when I was leaving after 10am. I didn't see anyone wearing a mask when working out, just employees. Also, they didn't bother scanning my temp when I entered. So I'm guessing that policy lasted maybe 2 days, unless only the gym I went to stopped it. Or may be since barely anyone was in that early it didn't matter? Oh well, I think its a joke if they're not going to enforce their own policy.
          Temp scanning is theater at best. Many active COVID patients don't have a fever. And if you do have a fever, a dose of Ibuprofen takes care of that for 6 hours. Even if I feel perfectly fine, if I need to go somewhere where temp screening will be done, I would certainly consider taking a dose an hour before I left just to be sure I don't get turned away.

          Masks and social distancing are critically important to prevent transmission. The number of places not requiring or enforcing that and the number of people not doing it is what is leading to problems.
          Steve

          * Despite the high cost of living, it remains very popular.
          * Why should I pay for my daughter's education when she already knows everything?
          * There are no shortcuts to anywhere worth going.

          Comment


            #65
            Originally posted by cypher1 View Post

            signs saying 20 min limit on all cardio machines if there is a line to use.
            I'd hate that. I always do at least 30 minutes on the treadmill.
            Steve

            * Despite the high cost of living, it remains very popular.
            * Why should I pay for my daughter's education when she already knows everything?
            * There are no shortcuts to anywhere worth going.

            Comment


              #66
              Originally posted by disneysteve View Post

              Masks and social distancing are critically important to prevent transmission.
              Disneysteve, in your professional medical opinion, would you advise savingadvice forums members to wear a mask?

              james.c.hendrickson@gmail.com
              202.468.6043

              Comment


                #67
                Originally posted by james.hendrickson View Post

                Disneysteve, in your professional medical opinion, would you advise savingadvice forums members to wear a mask?
                I think I've been pretty clear on that. Yes, everyone should wear a mask when they are in any public spaces indoors and also outdoors in any setting where you are around other people and can't maintain social distancing. Also, indoors if you are seeing people other than those you live with. So if you are going to visit your parents or friends, wear a mask.
                Steve

                * Despite the high cost of living, it remains very popular.
                * Why should I pay for my daughter's education when she already knows everything?
                * There are no shortcuts to anywhere worth going.

                Comment


                  #68
                  From a story on CNN:

                  "A group of 16 friends all tested positive for coronavirus after a night out at a recently reopened Florida bar."
                  "The bar was crowded, and no one was wearing masks."
                  They thought they were okay because "they heard from their mayor and governor that everything was fine".

                  This is the danger we're all facing. This is the damaging outcome of irresponsibly politicizing a public health crisis. The virus doesn't care if you're a Republican or Democrat or if you're up for reelection in November. You can stand up at a press conference and tell all the lies you want. That doesn't change the facts no matter how much you try to convince your followers otherwise.
                  Steve

                  * Despite the high cost of living, it remains very popular.
                  * Why should I pay for my daughter's education when she already knows everything?
                  * There are no shortcuts to anywhere worth going.

                  Comment


                    #69
                    Metro-Portland, Oregon is opening up on Friday, with masks basically being mandatory.
                    james.c.hendrickson@gmail.com
                    202.468.6043

                    Comment


                      #70
                      Originally posted by james.hendrickson View Post
                      Metro-Portland, Oregon is opening up on Friday, with masks basically being mandatory.
                      Which makes sense since both the mayor of Portland and the governor are Democrats. It's primarily the Republican states that are ignoring the mask rules.
                      Steve

                      * Despite the high cost of living, it remains very popular.
                      * Why should I pay for my daughter's education when she already knows everything?
                      * There are no shortcuts to anywhere worth going.

                      Comment


                        #71
                        Originally posted by disneysteve View Post
                        Which makes sense since both the mayor of Portland and the governor are Democrats. It's primarily the Republican states that are ignoring the mask rules.
                        I do not think it is a political thing,
                        If a person feels safer with mask then go for it.
                        There has been a few overzealous incidents in news of employees trying to enforce this with most of the corporations backing down and promising to "retrain" staff. Everyone who does not want to mask have learned what conditions meet exception status and just claim they have that. This whole excercise is not working.

                        I have personally witnessed so many not wearing masks correctly or inconstistently, i really doubt they are much more then a placebo.
                        Unlike a set study where ppl are instructed not to touch then media says see it works great..... the general public are contantly touching their face / moving aside to sneeze or cough, not covering nose as when you do that it fogs up their eyewear. I saw all this in one trip to a store.

                        AFTER months of people setting up tempature stations EVEN though as you stated in a post that is a very inaccurate measure of possible infections, we are finally seeing that too was more of a feel safe placebo effect not an accurate safety measure.

                        I have a few questions about these Mask mandates. I work in an industry that wears masks and we are REQUIRED to get medical clearance for our staff by OSHA.
                        Some people have conditions that they are not cleared or are only cleared for short time use. So if masks of all sorts can be mandated... why are businesses forced to mandate masks not following or expected to follow health rules as seen in OSHA requirements?
                        As well as having a clearly defined printed Respiratory Protection Policy as required by OSHA. I know why...... because the OSHA requirement make the cost of masks the employers and they need to have a steady FRESH supply for staff.
                        So much easier to have workers buy their own or make one at home.

                        Any person that is not neccessarily disinfecting mask is creating a moist and warm incubation envirorment for bacteria to grow right on their face.
                        I have gone into the office a few times they want everyone to wear masks and after a few hours I must leave as I develop a massive headache.

                        Now in this area there is a HUGE spike of people wearing masks all day getting ill with respiratory illnesses and many cases of strep throat are being reported.

                        Comment


                          #72
                          Don't shoot the messenger, I'm just pointing out what is on eBay right now.
                          https://www.ebay.com/itm/Aunt-Jemima...5a26%7Ciid%3A1

                          Comment


                            #73
                            Originally posted by Smallsteps View Post

                            I do not think it is a political thing
                            You don't think masks are political? If so, you have not been paying attention at all. The use of masks, and the entire COVID situation overall, has been outrageously politicized. There are very stark differences in the approach that has been taken to all things related to COVID between the Democrats and the Republicans. It's really quite sad how it has played out.
                            Steve

                            * Despite the high cost of living, it remains very popular.
                            * Why should I pay for my daughter's education when she already knows everything?
                            * There are no shortcuts to anywhere worth going.

                            Comment


                              #74
                              Originally posted by disneysteve View Post

                              You don't think masks are political? If so, you have not been paying attention at all. The use of masks, and the entire COVID situation overall, has been outrageously politicized. There are very stark differences in the approach that has been taken to all things related to COVID between the Democrats and the Republicans. It's really quite sad how it has played out.
                              The latest case in point. The republican leader of America is holding a rally in two days in Tulsa, OK at an indoor venue of 20,000 where there will be no masks required and no distancing protocols. He is doing this despite his closest medical advisors and top infectious disease professionals in the US urging him not to do it.

                              I also like to think I'm not political on the issue. I listen to doctors.

                              Comment


                                #75
                                Originally posted by ua_guy View Post

                                The latest case in point. The republican leader of America is holding a rally in two days in Tulsa, OK at an indoor venue of 20,000 where there will be no masks required and no distancing protocols. He is doing this despite his closest medical advisors and top infectious disease professionals in the US urging him not to do it.

                                I also like to think I'm not political on the issue. I listen to doctors.
                                And then there's the RNC convention that has been largely shifted from North Carolina, a Democratic state, to Florida, a Republican state. Why? Because N. Carolina refused to allow a massive gathering of people with no masks and no social distancing requirements, while Florida essentially said, "Sure, come on down. We don't care about COVID."
                                Steve

                                * Despite the high cost of living, it remains very popular.
                                * Why should I pay for my daughter's education when she already knows everything?
                                * There are no shortcuts to anywhere worth going.

                                Comment

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