End game for closed businesses

[~bs]

Well that would definitely change most people's answers. Would folks take 2 years of double pay not to work? Would I do it? Possibly but it would partly depend on availability of reasonably priced health insurance. Making 4 years worth of income in 2 years would put us within spitting distance of retirement (assuming the market has mostly recovered by then). Plus if we kept our spending steady, the extra 2 years worth could go 100% into savings and grow a bit more. I'd would at least sit down and run the numbers.

Realistically, though, how does unemployment actually work? Let's say someone, like my daughter, was laid off last month due to COVID. And let's say her job finally reopens May 15, two months later. They call her to come back. If she says, "No thanks", what happens? Can she continue to collect unemployment for 2 years or however long it exists if she is voluntarily out of work?

It depends on if she's laid off or furloughed. There's a difference.

[~bs]

BS where are you located that you get paid that much? I mean in the boeing post I showed you how much a person has to make to make maximum unemployment. What is the calculation for your state? In PA it's 50% of your wage up to $573/week. So Steve's daughter will get $240/week plus $600/week. So she will make $240 + $600 for 4 months potentially longer. But $840 is not 2x her wages and $840/week is $43k/year. That is not $52k/year. Tech workers where steve is will make $300/week + $600 = $900/week. That is $46k/year. I guess someone is making a lot to be making $52k/year you keep quoting. Are they making that much? In a few other states I think unemployment maxes out at 50% of the salary.

Average unemployment is $386/week. That is $20,072/year but right now only 39 weeks = $15054 for the year. Then the $600/week for 16 weeks is $9600. Then they get the state unemployment. Will they extend the $600/week. Seems like a lot considering how cheap the federal government is right now. I guess it's possible they will extend it past 4 months. But the thought is we are going to "spring" back to work and get rehired and that $600/week will keep people from going under. Not sure because people laid off are not getting medical.

Hawaii. There's other states that are even higher on the state side. Like double. I'm guessing the more liberal the state, the more willing to give away other people's money (sorry not trying to drag politics into it). The max here is 62% up to $648 plus $600 fed. If you make 40-something thousand a year, you will make the cap of $65,000 annualized. Plus due to the virus, all work search requirements are halted.

Hawaii tends to be pretty tough COL-wise and low paying, I'd guess the average regular job pays 15-20/hour. And now you tell a worker they can jump to over $31/hour by staying home? The worker will need to be pretty strongly motivated to pick up one of these low paying minimum wage essential temp jobs at walmart or dominos to stay employed.

[Mjenn]

Here in Sweden the decision is not to make big changes for the general public as it is mostly the elderly who will die. Instead businesses should stay open and people who have no symptoms are free to go about life as they please. The idea is it should save businesses, but at the end of the day a lot of businesses are very frustrated because those of us who read any international press are staying home. So restaurants can stay open they just need to remove some tables, but now restaurants are saying they will go bankrupt because following the model doesn’t work. They told ski resorts they didn’t have to close they just couldn’t have after ski with more than 50 people and told everyone they should cancel their vacations because the ski towns didn’t have medical resources for tourists, but again just a recommendation. So in the end 90% of resorts self shuttered because of loss of income and pressure but with the same extra protections the rest of companies get. So basically this model is not helping business more than pushing the pause button.

personally I think the result will cost thousands of lives and devastate business, but many Swedes are really happy with how the government is doing. We follow the recommendations of our epidemiologists who seem to have a completely opposite opinion from WHO and CDC.

They haven’t made big changes to the unemployment system here, we always had generous benefits and they have eased the qualifying period. They have added a great furlough program which requires you work or go back to work within 6 months.

[Scallywag]

Here in Sweden the decision is not to make big changes for the general public as it is mostly the elderly who will die. Instead businesses should stay open and people who have no symptoms are free to go about life as they please. The idea is it should save businesses, but at the end of the day a lot of businesses are very frustrated because those of us who read any international press are staying home. So restaurants can stay open they just need to remove some tables, but now restaurants are saying they will go bankrupt because following the model doesn’t work. They told ski resorts they didn’t have to close they just couldn’t have after ski with more than 50 people and told everyone they should cancel their vacations because the ski towns didn’t have medical resources for tourists, but again just a recommendation. So in the end 90% of resorts self shuttered because of loss of income and pressure but with the same extra protections the rest of companies get. So basically this model is not helping business more than pushing the pause button.

It is more economical for businesses to shutter than stay open because they then have to pay operating costs while seeing very limited sales. This results in bleeding cash that they likely already don't have (depending on their operating margins).

Sweden has a very very high rate of taxation, hence the excellent benefits (including free college).

If people don't work they can't pay taxes, which may be why the government recommends asymptomatic persons to work. But this can have devastating effects on any vulnerable people that they live with or in proximity to.

I no longer trust the WHO which has proven itself to be a CCP mouthpiece. I hope this is a wake up call for all governments to manufacture in their own lands to prevent similar devastations in the future. But people / companies / govts have short memories so this pandemic may unfortunately be the first of many. The "benefits" of globalization, for all to see / prepare for regularly in the future.

[LivingAlmostLarge]

I've lived in super liberal states and most are 50% of income capped. So yes the lower income person getting an extra $600/week makes a lot more. But the average person isn't getting the maximum. CA if you made $5k/month for past 18 months you get $450/week. That is $1050/week with federal benefit and is $54.6k/year. That is less than $60k they were making but closer. $12/hr gets $244/week and $15/hr gets $305. So the $600 is more than both and yes they will be making more. But for 16 weeks. I have my doubts they can keep on paying g $600/week but I don't resent helping those who need it the most. People like my neighbor $700/week is not even 1/3 of what she made. Like she said it's a lot less than she's used to. So she was making $120k/year. And yes that little unemployment is a cut even with the extra $600/week. Trust me she'd rather be working. So would anyone probably making above $60k.

In Hawaii someone making $12/hr makes $2112/month. Their benefit is $302/week. So they make $15704/year on unemployment. Then add in the $600/week for 16 weeks and it's $9600. Total they are making is $25304 so far annually. Now if they make $902/week for a whole year they are making $46,904 for the year. That's not a lot of money. Someone making $15/hr makes 2640/month and their benefit is $378/week. So they are making $19565/year on unemployment and $9600 now but in hawaii it's 26 weeks now extended to 39 weeks. But "annually they are going to make $378+600= $978*52 = $50856.

So BS all cases they aren't making that much unless congress passes again the benefit to go for 2 years. And I am using the Hawaii Unemployment site. So in order to get your $648/week maximum = $1045/week. That is $54k/year you have to make to get the maximum. All these people you are saying who are making $15-20/hr ARE NOT GETTING the maximum.

I just showed you the maximum the $12/hr worker makes from hawaii is $46k and that is $22/hr. The $15/hr is $24/hr annually if they get the unemployment extended from 39 weeks and the federal government extends the $600 from 16 weeks to 52 weeks as well. That is what they need to make that annually.

I don't think they are making $62k/year but maybe I'm wrong.

[~bs]

I've lived in super liberal states and most are 50% of income capped. So yes the lower income person getting an extra $600/week makes a lot more. But the average person isn't getting the maximum. CA if you made $5k/month for past 18 months you get $450/week. That is $1050/week with federal benefit and is $54.6k/year. That is less than $60k they were making but closer. $12/hr gets $244/week and $15/hr gets $305. So the $600 is more than both and yes they will be making more. But for 16 weeks. I have my doubts they can keep on paying g $600/week but I don't resent helping those who need it the most. People like my neighbor $700/week is not even 1/3 of what she made. Like she said it's a lot less than she's used to. So she was making $120k/year. And yes that little unemployment is a cut even with the extra $600/week. Trust me she'd rather be working. So would anyone probably making above $60k.

In Hawaii someone making $12/hr makes $2112/month. Their benefit is $302/week. So they make $15704/year on unemployment. Then add in the $600/week for 16 weeks and it's $9600. Total they are making is $25304 so far annually. Now if they make $902/week for a whole year they are making $46,904 for the year. That's not a lot of money. Someone making $15/hr makes 2640/month and their benefit is $378/week. So they are making $19565/year on unemployment and $9600 now but in hawaii it's 26 weeks now extended to 39 weeks. But "annually they are going to make $378+600= $978*52 = $50856.

So BS all cases they aren't making that much unless congress passes again the benefit to go for 2 years. And I am using the Hawaii Unemployment site. So in order to get your $648/week maximum = $1045/week. That is $54k/year you have to make to get the maximum. All these people you are saying who are making $15-20/hr ARE NOT GETTING the maximum.

I just showed you the maximum the $12/hr worker makes from hawaii is $46k and that is $22/hr. The $15/hr is $24/hr annually if they get the unemployment extended from 39 weeks and the federal government extends the $600 from 16 weeks to 52 weeks as well. That is what they need to make that annually.

I don't think they are making $62k/year but maybe I'm wrong.

To qualify for the absolute maximum, you need to make $26/hour or $54k/year. That will generate $65k. Generally the lower income you make, the higher your benefit will be % wise with people collecting double or more. The guy making $10/hour will make around $21/hour with the boost.

You know what they say about assumptions... but it's not too much of a stretch that they'll extend the bonus unemployment out at least until the end of the year. if it's 2 years, then we probably have bigger things to worry about economy wise.

[LivingAlmostLarge]

I don't know they will extend the bonus unemployment. I think more likely they will extend the regular unemployment longer. Right now 39 weeks. But it's only 50% of your income up to a capped amount which isn't enough for many who make more than $54k/year. So would they rather be working and earning more or not working and earning less?

[~bs]

I don't know they will extend the bonus unemployment. I think more likely they will extend the regular unemployment longer. Right now 39 weeks. But it's only 50% of your income up to a capped amount which isn't enough for many who make more than $54k/year. So would they rather be working and earning more or not working and earning less?

If the economy is in the gutter, they will extend. They can't have the peasants rioting.

Yeah, really depends on your state and situation. IMO the $600 should have been cost of living adjusted. If you live in a low COL area, that $600 plus 50% means you're living pretty well. Big city and high COL? You kinda hurting.

[LivingAlmostLarge]

If the economy is in the gutter, they will extend. They can't have the peasants rioting.

Yeah, really depends on your state and situation. IMO the $600 should have been cost of living adjusted. If you live in a low COL area, that $600 plus 50% means you're living pretty well. Big city and high COL? You kinda hurting.

considering my neighbor and her husband might both be out of jobs. Unemployment is not even a 1/3 of what she made. She'd rather be working she said. Of course that's a huge difference especially when you have bills to pay. Even with the extra $600/week.

Sure I think unemployment will be extended but I don't think the extra $600/week will be. Just state unemployment like it already has been extended 13 weeks. Yes another 13 weeks for 1 year, but i don't think they'll do the bonus. So then that is still only 50% of your income? Work or get 50% for low wage workers? High wage earner it's a no brainer

[~bs]

People will riot if the amount is reduced. Republicans are in a hard place, and democrats will push for full extension. That's how the entire $600 for everyone thing got passed in the first place

[~bs]

On a side note, I'm applying for the PPP Loan/forgiveness for my small business. in reading the law, it doesn't disqualify you based on other employment or income sources. Basically what's required is a prior year schedule C.

So if you make $120k on a schedule c, divide by 12 and multiply by 250%. That's the amount the government will essentially give you in free money as a sole proprietor business.

[TexasHusker]

On a side note, I'm applying for the PPP Loan/forgiveness for my small business. in reading the law, it doesn't disqualify you based on other employment or income sources. Basically what's required is a prior year schedule C.

So if you make $120k on a schedule c, divide by 12 and multiply by 250%. That's the amount the government will essentially give you in free money as a sole proprietor business.

There are caveats to loan forgiveness. Study it closely.

[~bs]

There are caveats to loan forgiveness. Study it closely.

Thanks for the tip! Bigger caveat is if you take title iv loans. loan forgiveness is largely straightforward especially if you don't have employees. Pay yourself 2 months of salary and pay your mortgage/rent and you're good.

[TexasHusker]

Thanks for the tip! Bigger caveat is if you take title iv loans. loan forgiveness is largely straightforward especially if you don't have employees. Pay yourself 2 months of salary and pay your mortgage/rent and you're good.

Absolutely! So you are a 1099 or W2 at your company? My cos pay me a small salary, but not a whole lot as I’m not terribly active in them - until a month ago, that is!

[~bs]

Absolutely! So you are a 1099 or W2 at your company? My cos pay me a small salary, but not a whole lot as I’m not terribly active in them - until a month ago, that is!

I have a side business that's schedule C, 1099.

W-2 at my company. Because of my job, I've needed to get very familiar with all parts of the coronavirus relief legislation. There is still a lot of the law that is gray without guidance and mechanisms set in place yet. The individual stimulus is only one small example of how the rules shift over time as the IRS figures out how best to implement it.