End game for closed businesses

[disneysteve]

Staples is open and last I checked, office supplies aren't "essential"?

According to who?

If you are running an essential business, you need office supplies. We use paper and staples and pens and toner and dry erase markers and various other things every day in our clinic. Staples also sells cleaning supplies, maintenance items, safety items like first aid kits, batteries, and more, and they sell shipping supplies. Tons of essential stuff for businesses to continue doing business.

[disneysteve]

Dr. Fauci wrote in NEJM that this is likely to be equal to a severe seasonal influenza season. Remember we do not shut down our economy for the seasonal flu.

If that's what you got from reading that article, I suggest you read it again. That's not at all what it says.

Also, that editorial was published 3/26 which means it was written some time before that. It mentions the possibility of needing to do social distancing to reduce transmission - which was already well into practice by 3/26. The story has been rapidly changing and evolving so whatever was being looked at weeks ago when this was probably written has changed dramatically since then, as I'm sure has Dr. Fauci's outlook.

[kork13]

Also the 7% death rate in Italy isn't from the virus it's from the impact on hospitals and care. Which we haven't seen yet in the US and I'm not sure how that will play out. Better or worse. I don't know. No one does. We don't know if we will max out hospital beds or if we are fine.

Another noteworthy factor in Italy is the different age profile. 36% of Italians are aged 55+ (high risk) and 23% are <25 (low risk). By contrast, 29% of the US is 55+ and 31% are <25.

While not the only factor that will drive infections, age is clearly a significant differentiator. Italians, on average, are much older than Americans -- this puts a larger portion of their population at risk.

[kork13]

The situation in NYC is beyond critical. The navy hospital ship brought in with great fanfare from the president has been all but worthless so far because they are refusing to take COVID patients aboard. Last I heard, they had 20 patients despite a capacity for 1,000. They are providing virtually no relief for the overwhelmed area hospitals that have had to convert conference rooms, the library, and any other available space into patient care areas.

My understanding from the articles I've read was that the hospital ship was never intended to treat COVID patients -- rather, its stated/ordered purpose was to serve as a pressure-relief valve, in order for the local hospitals & field hospitals getting setup to focus on COVID. Basically, that USNS Mercy is supposed to take on hospitalized patients for non-COVID problems (not sure what sort of things that might include... never spent much time around hospitals).

[disneysteve]

My understanding from the articles I've read was that the hospital ship was never intended to treat COVID patients -- rather, its stated/ordered purpose was to serve as a pressure-relief valve, in order for the local hospitals & field hospitals getting setup to focus on COVID. Basically, that USNS Mercy is supposed to take on hospitalized patients for non-COVID problems (not sure what sort of things that might include... never spent much time around hospitals).

That apparently was the intent, but the problem they are encountering, from what I'm reading, is that it's the COVID patients that are swamping the hospitals.

I'm on a Skype call right now from our hospital system and about 30% of the hospital census right now is COVID patients, and we're nowhere near the volume of cases that NYC is seeing right now. I'm guessing their COVID census is much, much higher. Having that ship handle a handful of non-COVID patients is nice but it's a waste of the resource for them to be treating 20 patients when they have the capacity to treat 1,000.

[kork13]

That apparently was the intent, but the problem they are encountering, from what I'm reading, is that it's the COVID patients that are swamping the hospitals.

I'm on a Skype call right now from our hospital system and about 30% of the hospital census right now is COVID patients, and we're nowhere near the volume of cases that NYC is seeing right now. I'm guessing their COVID census is much, much higher. Having that ship handle a handful of non-COVID patients is nice but it's a waste of the resource for them to be treating 20 patients when they have the capacity to treat 1,000.

I guess I just wonder if there's truly no other hospitalizations (doubt it, in a city that size), or if the hospitals aren't transferring their patients to the Mercy? Why isn't anyone getting sent to the ship?

[disneysteve]

I guess I just wonder if there's truly no other hospitalizations (doubt it, in a city that size), or if the hospitals aren't transferring their patients to the Mercy? Why isn't anyone getting sent to the ship?

The Navy apparently hasn't made it easy. Hospitals were given a list of about 50 medical conditions that exclude a patient from being treated on the Mercy (I haven't seen the list so I'm not sure what it consists of). Patients can't go directly to the Mercy. They must first go to a hospital and have a somewhat extensive workup, including COVID testing, and then can be considered for transfer to the Mercy if they meet the admission guidelines.

[TexasHusker]

Dallas is now stay at home until May 20. These extensions are just going to keep happening until there is no economy left to re-open.

[Scallywag]

Dallas is now stay at home until May 20. These extensions are just going to keep happening until there is no economy left to re-open.

What are the COVID numbers out of TX? I really don't see an option to the lockdown. This virus is especially nasty, hardy and a killer.

[Scallywag]

The Navy apparently hasn't made it easy. Hospitals were given a list of about 50 medical conditions that exclude a patient from being treated on the Mercy (I haven't seen the list so I'm not sure what it consists of). Patients can't go directly to the Mercy. They must first go to a hospital and have a somewhat extensive workup, including COVID testing, and then can be considered for transfer to the Mercy if they meet the admission guidelines.

Do the doctors / nurses have the ability to do an "extensive workup"? I think it's ridiculous to expect hospitals already overwhelmed by huge numbers of patients to screen for 50 other conditions prior to transferring them to the USNS Comfort. I can't believe that the Navy - that is supposed to be helping - is taking 3 patients out of the 1000s needing care. It pisses me off.

[Singuy]

This is how I see it.


What everyone is trying to prevent is what happened in NYC. Given that it has a high population density with a robust public transportation system(probably the biggest reason for transmission) and not to mention a high amount of Chinese and Italians in which means high risk of infected people seeded into the population early March, they will be in for a rough ride.

The flip side is to look at cities without any of these things. Cases in many areas seem to be far and few in between and the economic shutdown has not only damaged people's livelihoods but are also TAKING DOWN THE MEDICAL HEALTH CARE SYSTEM. Wait what? How can Covid take down NYC hospitals while also taking down our Orlando Florida's hospital system all at once? They have hundreds and thousands of hospitalized cases, we have 40..and that's the problem.

The economic shutdown (such as the closure of Disney) and inability to schedule for elective surgeries have brought my hospital system down to it's knees. We are losing 3 million dollars/day, and all the managers are scrambling trying to solve the issue. We are afraid of laying off people because what if Covid spikes, but at the same time our admission rates dropped close to 40% due to shelter at home. So now we literally have to balance saving lives and bankruptcy if this last for months. Look at the job loss report from today, HEALTH CARE is ranked #2 as most jobs lost. And here you think people would be mass hiring health care workers right?

So the RIGHT way to do this is for the government to start shipping out masks and mandate social distancing protocols for work places and get people back to work in counties with small amount of cases. Failing economy will cost lives. It increases suicides, abortions, child abandonment, social unrest related crimes, drug abuse, and domestic abuse. So there are blood being spilled from both sides. It's about managing risks from this point forward, and cannot be all in or none at all.

The value of the dollar is no longer backed by gold but backed by GDP and our ability to pay back debt. Hyperinflation like what happens in Venezuela or the great depression is a real risk if U.S stop producing. Venezuela's GDP was backed by their ability to produce oil. But as oil price crashed, so did their GDP and ability to repay all the debt they accumulated through social programs. This is why their money became paper. So yeah...this is a thing guys...

[Thrif-t]

Staples is open and last I checked, office supplies aren't "essential"?

I would've thought that too, but I'm chatting with my sister. My BIL will be home working for the next 2 mos and they need a laptop, only have an ipad and that won't work for work. They are in their early 60s and won't shop on line cause she won't put her credit card on the internet.

[Thrif-t]

Well that's scary @Singuy. I'm conflicted on this whole pandemic. I see both sides and can't decide what is the right course. With all situations you make the best decisions you can at the time and go with it. You'll only know looking back if it was right or not. I could never be a leader, I'm too wishy washy.

[disneysteve]

You'll only know looking back if it was right or not.

If a year from now, all of the actions taken look like they were a colossal overreaction, then we will have done all of the right things.

[disneysteve]

I would've thought that too, but I'm chatting with my sister. My BIL will be home working for the next 2 mos and they need a laptop, only have an ipad and that won't work for work. They are in their early 60s and won't shop on line cause she won't put her credit card on the internet.

Yep. Add that to my list of Staples essentials - computers, tech, networking gear, etc. So many people suddenly find themselves in need of web conferencing equipment, cams, mikes, etc.