End game for closed businesses

[disneysteve]

Do the doctors / nurses have the ability to do an "extensive workup"? I think it's ridiculous to expect hospitals already overwhelmed by huge numbers of patients to screen for 50 other conditions prior to transferring them to the USNS Comfort. I can't believe that the Navy - that is supposed to be helping - is taking 3 patients out of the 1000s needing care. It pisses me off.

I haven't looked into the details deeply. Clearly, the goal is to keep COVID patients off the Mercy. I don't know what they are equipped to manage, and I don't know what conditions are on the exclusion list. It just apparently isn't a simple streamlined process to divert patients there from the hospitals.

Last I saw, they had 20 patients (not 3). They have room for 1,000.

[disneysteve]

we literally have to balance saving lives and bankruptcy

Exactly right, and it doesn't matter if you're talking about a hospital or a florist or a donut shop. Do we prioritize saving hundreds of thousands of lives or letting businesses get back to doing business? And who gets to make that decision?

[Scallywag]

Yep. Add that to my list of Staples essentials - computers, tech, networking gear, etc. So many people suddenly find themselves in need of web conferencing equipment, cams, mikes, etc.

Are these recurring supplies?

[Scallywag]

This is how I see it.


What everyone is trying to prevent is what happened in NYC. Given that it has a high population density with a robust public transportation system(probably the biggest reason for transmission) and not to mention a high amount of Chinese and Italians in which means high risk of infected people seeded into the population early March, they will be in for a rough ride.

The flip side is to look at cities without any of these things. Cases in many areas seem to be far and few in between and the economic shutdown has not only damaged people's livelihoods but are also TAKING DOWN THE MEDICAL HEALTH CARE SYSTEM. Wait what? How can Covid take down NYC hospitals while also taking down our Orlando Florida's hospital system all at once? They have hundreds and thousands of hospitalized cases, we have 40..and that's the problem.

The economic shutdown (such as the closure of Disney) and inability to schedule for elective surgeries have brought my hospital system down to it's knees. We are losing 3 million dollars/day, and all the managers are scrambling trying to solve the issue. We are afraid of laying off people because what if Covid spikes, but at the same time our admission rates dropped close to 40% due to shelter at home. So now we literally have to balance saving lives and bankruptcy if this last for months. Look at the job loss report from today, HEALTH CARE is ranked #2 as most jobs lost. And here you think people would be mass hiring health care workers right?

So the RIGHT way to do this is for the government to start shipping out masks and mandate social distancing protocols for work places and get people back to work in counties with small amount of cases. Failing economy will cost lives. It increases suicides, abortions, child abandonment, social unrest related crimes, drug abuse, and domestic abuse. So there are blood being spilled from both sides. It's about managing risks from this point forward, and cannot be all in or none at all.

The value of the dollar is no longer backed by gold but backed by GDP and our ability to pay back debt. Hyperinflation like what happens in Venezuela or the great depression is a real risk if U.S stop producing. Venezuela's GDP was backed by their ability to produce oil. But as oil price crashed, so did their GDP and ability to repay all the debt they accumulated through social programs. This is why their money became paper. So yeah...this is a thing guys...

A few days ago, insurers decided to pay for e-visits ar the same rate as in-person visits, thereby preventing hundreds of job losses at doctors' & other health care professional offices. Pharmacies are likely coontinuing to dispense medications as usual?

If 60% of all procedures are "elective" then I can see a problem for hospitals but it also surprises me that they'd be pushed into bankruptcies because they still have accidents, emergencies and trauma surgeries? Also, how do we predict where the next hot spot will be?

[Singuy]

Exactly right, and it doesn't matter if you're talking about a hospital or a florist or a donut shop. Do we prioritize saving hundreds of thousands of lives or letting businesses get back to doing business? And who gets to make that decision?

Steve, my most important point is that lives will be lost if you save the economy (to Covid) or let the economy die(death due to risk factors from a failing economy). So the balancing point between the two is TIME. At what TIME can you see lives being lost at a slower rate to Covid vs lives lost due to a failing economy. You can shut down the economy for a year until a vaccine comes out to ensure the least life lost to Covid, but on the flip size U.S defaults on their loan obligations, 90% of the businesses file for chapter 11, the negative feedback loop in which laid off people can't afford to give back to the economy while the U.S dollar is worthless creates a society of massive social unrest with sky rocketing crime and death due to all the reasons I listed above.

[disneysteve]

Are these recurring supplies?

Not generally for an individual, why? That doesn't make them any less necessary to be available for sale. Millions of workers are now working from home. Millions of students are home schooling. The demand for these products is huge, easily the highest it's ever been.

[Singuy]

A few days ago, insurers decided to pay for e-visits ar the same rate as in-person visits, thereby preventing hundreds of job losses at doctors' & other health care professional offices. Pharmacies are likely coontinuing to dispense medications as usual?

If 60% of all procedures are "elective" then I can see a problem for hospitals but it also surprises me that they'd be pushed into bankruptcies because they still have accidents, emergencies and trauma surgeries? Also, how do we predict where the next hot spot will be?

Shelter at home in conjunction with people less likely to go to Covid hot spots(like a hospital) dropped our admission rate dramatically. Also we are very tourist heavy so as the theme parks dried up, so did a good portion of the population. Trauma from car crashes and work related injuries no longer happen when there are no cars on the road, all the jobs closed, and alcohol dispensing venues close.

[disneysteve]

A few days ago, insurers decided to pay for e-visits ar the same rate as in-person visits, thereby preventing hundreds of job losses at doctors' & other health care professional offices. Pharmacies are likely coontinuing to dispense medications as usual?

There are pretty significant limitations to telehealth. Obviously, there can be no physical examination involved. No lab testing. No imaging studies. That greatly narrows what can actually be adequately evaluated and treated.

If 60% of all procedures are "elective" then I can see a problem for hospitals but it also surprises me that they'd be pushed into bankruptcies because they still have accidents, emergencies and trauma surgeries?

Accidents and injuries are down sharply thanks to stay at home orders. That's part of why we're so slow in urgent care. We typically see multiple injuries per day from gym, sports, and other recreational activities. We don't handle a lot of car accident cases but the hospitals and specialists certainly due, but those are off sharply, too. That is a bright side to all of this. I'm sure the 2020 accident death rate will be off quite a bit.

[disneysteve]

At what TIME can you see lives being lost at a slower rate to Covid vs lives lost due to a failing economy.

I suppose the good thing is we can easily track COVID deaths. Attributing a death to economic issues is far fuzzier. So we'll be able to see when the new case rate starts dropping, which will probably be sometime in May.

[Singuy]

I suppose the good thing is we can easily track COVID deaths. Attributing a death to economic issues is far fuzzier. So we'll be able to see when the new case rate starts dropping, which will probably be sometime in May.

Except Trump made all this so freaken political that he will be criticized if there's still a single + case if he were to ever think about opening up the economy. A true moron on the podium playing politics which erode his credibility. Who panders to church goers, Floridians, and calls this a democratic smear on stage? Anyone with a brain can see through his BS and cares more about winning the election than doing this right. Honestly they should just postpone the next election and just let him be just so he can to stick to the facts vs playing his game. I don't care if he's the president for another 2 years..as long as he can safely navigate U.S through this. He obviously can't with the temptation of playing politics.

[Scallywag]

I think the Govt should permit those who want to take the risk to go to work / open up businesses while supporting those with pre-existing conditions or who do not want to risk it. I think that is what might hapoen eventually but I think we're already in a recession. However, letting people make their own decisions might prevent the Recession from becoming a Depression.

[~bs]

According to who?

If you are running an essential business, you need office supplies. We use paper and staples and pens and toner and dry erase markers and various other things every day in our clinic. Staples also sells cleaning supplies, maintenance items, safety items like first aid kits, batteries, and more, and they sell shipping supplies. Tons of essential stuff for businesses to continue doing business.

Yeah.... it's funny, someone could make the same argument because I work in a office. If I'm not working, who's going to run the company that provides the essential services? It's like wondering why the only person worker at burgerking providing the essential food service isn't the guy at the checkout window. Nevermind the cooks, manager, delivery driver, food distribution workers, packaging plant, farm workers, and all their back office support personnel. Front line workers get all the glory, but the back office setting up and managing all these arrangements, paying the employees, the government taxes, the vendors, managing HR, IT requrements, etc etc is the backbone upon which companies are built.

[~bs]

In terms of the overall economy, I don't see this sharp recovery everyone is talking about. There are too many businesses closed that are going to be closed for far too long. There is no end-game being discussed. It's just an endless serious of lock-downs. The Fed's 14 days followed by the city's 14 days followed by the state's 30 days, etc.

I would guess that at least half of all businesses currently closed will never re-open, because there simply isn't the cash to re-open. Sure, a lot of businesses are going to get relief from the stimulus package, but take my business for example: Yes, it will help me with payroll for 10 weeks. But all of this started around March 1 and I'm not going to be open until a minimum of mid-May and probably more like July. So helping me with payroll isn't really doing anything, because we aren't an ongoing business concern any more; we are literally paying people not to work. We are just a quasi-unemployment office. It will take my own savings to successfully re-open, and most businesses simply don't have the ammo to survive.

The longer things are closed, the longer they will likely be closed, because it is ALWAYS the path of least resistance for the politicians "not" to do something. We will get to the end of April and they will say "Oh let's keep things shut down just two more weeks", then two more, then two more. Who is going to stand up and the microphone and say "you can open up your business again"? I'm not going to hold my breath.

That's your choice to pay people not for working. You could simply furlough them and the government will pay them more than they were making while working for you.

[TexasHusker]

That's your choice to pay people not for working. You could simply furlough them and the government will pay them more than they were making while working for you.

Yep. I’m choosing to keep them and hoping it will pay off in the end. A friend of mine yesterday laid off 9 of his 15 people, so he is taking the lay-off approach.

[disneysteve]

I took a leap of faith today. Several of us at work really enjoy doing escape rooms. We've done 10 or 12 together at this point. One of the local companies was having a gift card sale today - $44 for a $100 card (because today is 4/4). I bought 4 cards (the max allowed) so $400 worth for just $176. One of my other friends bought 3. Assuming they eventually reopen, we'll use them to go do the rooms that we haven't done yet. If by chance they go out of business, the money will be lost but we're hoping that doesn't happen. Time will tell.