working and non working partners?

[LivingAlmostLarge]

For those who have a non-working partner/spouse do you resent your partner/spouse who isn't working? Do you think they aren't pulling their fair share around the household whether you have children or not? Or do you respect what they do around the house? Why did you chose for them to not work? How long have they not worked?

For those who are the non-working partner/spouse do you feel that your partner/spouse does not respect or resent what you do? What made you decide not work? How long have you not worked?

Someone asked me that and I've been pondering it. But recently I've been working part-time 3 years and I enjoy it. But I've gotten a lot of comments about working full time. That my kids are getting older and I should be looking for full-time work. But I'm not sure I want to. I know my DH doesn't resent me now nor has he in the past. He's appreciated the ease of his life now. But he's not interested in not working. But being financially prudent has allowed me to stay at home and honestly not be that far behind those people both working. Doing taxes I know we save more than I'd say 90% of dual income couples. But we'd probably save 99% more than dual income if we were dual income. So it's a wash since it's our habits.

But I'm curious on this board that is pretty financially conscious if you chose to both work or not both work. This also applies to retirees. Why did you choose to retire at different times? I mean one can retire and the other work.

[Smallsteps]

I guess I would be the sort of non-working spouse/ partner.
All through our younger years we both worked a lot. We did not think about what we could have done differently. We could have made it on spouses income and been more frugal.
The ONE thing is you cannot get back the time or opportunities that I would have had if I was not working all the time. My job was in retail so I think of all the holidays I could not have ANY time off and different seasons ( sales / promotions) further limited our vacation options etc.

I while back I had some health issues that required me to reassess my work life. My spouse also took a job that required us to move at first I did not work and there were some disagreements about levels of contribution to our future etc. Then I started TEMP jobs. I work fulltime and then I take breaks between gigs.

It works because when we both are working we never have time to do things that we can when one of us is off. more leeway to take time away etc.

I do not think there is no one right answer. There is no do-overs with 20/20 hindsight.
Some people like to work and I can probably see myself doing at least PT for many years after retirement health willing. Honestly cannot imagine my spouse fully retired either.

[disneysteve]

My wife has worked and not worked at various times. She was working when we got together and continued to work until about 1/1-2 years after we got married. She was in retail management and it was very high stress. We had been trying to get pregnant without success and she was sure the stress was a factor. She called me in tears one day and I told her to quit. She did and was pregnant less than a month later.

She remained a SAHM until our daughter was about 10 when she took a fairly low key job that was flexible if she need to do something with DD. After a couple of years, she left that and was out for a while. Then a new job with a local hospital (the same one I now work for) kind of fell into her lap. She did that for 6 or 7 years, putting 50% of her income into a 401k. We wanted to put in 100% but they wouldn't let us. She left that job several years ago and hasn't had a formal job since.

I have never felt she didn't do her fair share. I sometime think it would be nicer financially if she did work because every dollar she would earn would be one less dollar I had to earn before I could retire, but I make way more than her so it's not a big deal.

The other thing is I like doing stuff with her when I'm off so I wouldn't like if she was working when I wasn't. And vacation planning is way easier with only one person working. If she got a job with 2 weeks off and I have 6 weeks off, that wouldn't work. I like it better this way for sure.

[kork13]

This doesn't quite apply to us (yet), but this week my wife got the final decision that she would be medically retired from the military (mental health reasons), so within the next 1-2 months, she'll be leaving her current job. I earn plenty to support our family without her income (I've already put together a baseline budget, and we'll still be able to save 40% of gross), and we're in the process of deciding what she's going to do next. Financially, it also helps that she'll receive a small-ish disability pension (~$21k/yr, mostly non-taxable), and she has the GI Bill benefits available for use as well. But at this point, I really don't care about the finances of what she's doing. I just want (need?) her to be happy, comfortable, and confident in what she's doing with her life. She's an incredible mother to our kids (way better than I am as a father), and that part of her personality was a big reason I first fell for her. So if she wants to just stay home with them, I'm happy to have her do that. Sometimes we don't equally share responsibilities around the house (in both directions), but when she's home and not super stressed out, she definitely handles alot of the household chores & such, and she always handles our boys way better than I can. Occasionally she'll have a rough patch & I'll have to do pick up alot more slack, and I do get somewhat resentful... But on the whole, it works, and I don't see any sort of imbalance.

Honestly though, I don't think she'll be able to do the pure SAHM thing for very long. She's been working since she was ~14 y/o as a part-time nanny, and she enjoys being busy/productive. Another option we're considering is a part time or flexible-hours job, to give her a foot in both worlds, at least in the short term. Long term, she most likely will go back to school (or through some form of professional certification) to eventually get her going toward something more aligned with her passions, either in the medical field (RN, PT, OT, or similar), and/or massage therapy.

In general terms, I see our strong financial situation as a means of providing us with flexibility. She doesn't have to work, but she can if she wants to. Anything that she earns is gravy, and will only give us more flexibility in the future.

[MonkeyMama]

This is one of those things where I will never understand why other people care so much about other people's choices.

I do not think there is no one right answer.
Some people like to work

Exactly. I think most people fall somewhere in the middle. We had planned for one of to stay home, because that is what our parents did and was within our comfort level. Hindsight 20/20, if I could do all over again, we would have met somewhere in the middle. I think I am the happier of the two, because I *loved* my job and wasn't particularly interested in having kids or staying home. My husband 1,000% wanted kids and was the best one to be home with them, but I think it was just a much harder road for him because he is male and it was unusual. In general, the happiest parents I know both worked part-time (just to clarify how we'd meet in the middle).

Oh yeah, and being a tax professional this was a no-brainer. I am always surprised how often people presume this is an upper middle class kind of thing. In the cities I have lived in, the choice for a spouse to stay home is often a lower income thing because of a lack of affordable daycare. There was definitely a huge element for my parents. As a tax professional, I was just kind of like, "You are not working FULL TIME, at a job you HATE, just to have it ALL go to taxes and daycare." Because that is ridiculous. The only thing that would have changed the equation is if my husband had a career or a job he really loved. Then maybe you put up with working for pennies for a few years. But if you'd be 1,000 times happier staying home with your kids, just stay home with your kids.

On the flip side, my mom never worked. That was not the plan for us at all. Before we had kids, we both worked full-time. My husband is working very part-time now, but that will go a LONG way to cover college. & I expect he will probably work full-time another 10-ish years before we scale back. Being very fiscally conservative, we certainly never viewed this as a permanent decision. How it's worked out is that we are so financially comfortable that I don't know that I'd see the point of us both working full-time. & TAXES... The taxes would be shocking. I just started a new job but it's very flexible and they are very cool with changing it to part-time (maybe 32 hours per week). I could foresee taking them up on that if my husband got settled back into the full-time workforce. I think he probably needs to go all-in/full-time if he wants to find some career footing, but my job/career is very flexible and lots of part-time opportunities, so maybe I just scale back a wee little bit to balance it. & I mean, I can entirely support my family if I go down to 32-hours per week. The rest is just gravy and saving up to retire around age 50, which we are on track with regardless.

I am a little wary to cut back too much before my kids are done with college (also around age 50). But this job pays so well and is such a good situation, that I would consider part-time if my husband was also working full-time. I'd wait a bit to make sure he was really happy. All my jobs, I could have always covered picking up the kids from school and bringing some work home. I was really nervous about that because my 17-year-long job just ended, but the new one is the same on that front. I feel great relief about this, even if it only matters for another couple of years.

As to having a spouse who was home full-time with me during my maternity leaves, takes care of all the domestics, and is the most amazing emotional support I have ever had my entire life, yeah, all that is so awful. People try to tell me all the time it is awful, and they all sound like complete morons. There is more to life than money, but on top of all that my husband is crazy frugal, and he saved up every penny he made before we had kids, so yeah, I guess that helps too.

P.S. Our plan was for my spouse to stay home about 5 years with kids, but life had other plans. He was laid off when I was first pregnant, and then had some medical issues that prolonged his stay home with kids.

[Jluke]

My wife likes to shop. So she works.

[MonkeyMama]

As a tax professional, I was just kind of like, "You are not working FULL TIME, at a job you HATE, just to have it ALL go to taxes and daycare." Because that is ridiculous.

I know I Was overly tired and rambly in my last post. I probably still am.

But I wanted to add to this, it just made more financial sense to do side work and actually keep most of it, versus working full-time for -$0-.

This reminds me how often I'd point out I wasn't the higher earner and we literally cut our income in half when we had kids, and you could just see the wheels turning in the other person's mind as they try to wrap their brain around this. They literally think we cut our household income in half, when the truth is we cut our income by 25%, net of taxes. & of course, the entire 25% (real income cut) would have gone to daycare.

I think it's because of this math (er, lack of personal finance education) that most people seem beside themselves that my spouse stayed home for 13 years, and many people have told me they presume we are neglecting retirement. ??? For reference, at 40 we have 10 times our income saved.

That reminds me, my MIL keeps asking us if we started saving for retirement yet. I keep thinking, "Do you even know us at all?" Her son worked through high school and college because he was saving for a house. You know, as most 16-year-olds do. LOL. But I do know she is one of those people who does not approve of our financial arrangements and I expect that is why. It's pretty clear that she thinks we have to be struggling. We actually just bought the most expensive car we have ever bought, by a mile, and my husband mentioned to her that we had some investments to pay for it; just blurted something out to get her off his back. You know what her reply was? "You have investments!?" LOL. & they are really good with their money and have done very well. Probably more prepared for retirement than about 90% of the US population. It's probably that they just don't understand that we don't have pensions and have mostly never had work retirement plans. So um yeah, of course we have investments, if we ever want to retire.

[Homebody]

My husband and I planned horribly. We are a picture of what NOT to do. I retired at 58 due to chronic pain and an extremely stressful job (executive director of an assisted living facility that was dumped in my lap). I now believe my job (after living in a very 50/50 partnership) is to make my husband's life as easy as possible. It is really hard to go from non-traditional roles to traditional. In fact my husband is in the kitchen right now having just made breakfast and is working on the freezer burritos I said I was going to make. He did all food chores for 35+ years when raising our daughters and he has a hard time not being in the kitchen. We have enough, we will be fine, but oh if I could do my life over again......

[LivingAlmostLarge]

My husband and I planned horribly. We are a picture of what NOT to do. I retired at 58 due to chronic pain and an extremely stressful job (executive director of an assisted living facility that was dumped in my lap). I now believe my job (after living in a very 50/50 partnership) is to make my husband's life as easy as possible. It is really hard to go from non-traditional roles to traditional. In fact my husband is in the kitchen right now having just made breakfast and is working on the freezer burritos I said I was going to make. He did all food chores for 35+ years when raising our daughters and he has a hard time not being in the kitchen. We have enough, we will be fine, but oh if I could do my life over again......

What would you do. I never expected to be home so long either but life happens. I also didn't expect to be so resistant to working full time. I thought I would have jumped at the opportunity to be jumping back on the career track and trying work full time. But something happened in those 8 years off. After 5 years I thought I need work experience so part-time while getting kids to school and then transition to full time. Well now the baby is in 1st grade and I don't want to go back to full time. I like the flexibility. Like MM, if I worked I would barely clear what I make now after childcare and taxes. I would lose 50% to taxes (federal, SS, Medicare, etc) then child care so I'd be lucky to clear 20%. I'd have to make $100k to clear the $20k I can make now easily. So then i'm sort of like why?

But then I feel guilty that I'm making so little. I mean mentally and financially I know that I am clearing as much as parents who are paying for childcare and make $100k if not more depending on where they are sending their kids. But then as the kids get older they'll make more as the kids need less. We don't have 10x our income in retirement at 40 but our income has done some serious climbing in 10 years since we started retirement savings. But we are definitely on track.

I mean I have friends tell me "oh I need to save for college because its is $60k/year at college now. Her planner told her". I said nope we're fine and if we need more than we have saved or plan to save then we'll cash flow it. But $60k/year seems outrageous personally. In state with boarding is $25k/year. We are on pace for that without flinching. And really how many people are paying $60k/year for college?

[Smallsteps]

I say do what you are comfortable and more importantly HAPPY with. if you find that one person stays home or works PT is the right fit then stay the course.
There are no do overs and for each story of great outcomes with both people working like crazy there is also a story of complete destruction.

In a way that some say each person you meet can be a lesson one of my first jobs I worked with a lady and she seemed to have it ALL ...many wanted to follow her example.
Her and Husband planned all their life around working fulltime plus building side gigs, businesses etc the plan was a FABULOUS early retirement. Looked and sounded Great … then LIFE happened.

He never had time off soon she wandered into the arms of a co-worker...…….. their great plan was split in a divorce like a fire sale. He sunk into a great depression their son HATED her and acted out.
So today she is married to co-worker who got fired for some bad tings and she is supporting him working probably until she can no longer can, since second husband was a big SPENDER
The son who acted out got into trouble last I heard was in prison and Ex died of heart attack after letting his life go down the drain based on planning so hard for an idea of a life...…. 25 years down the road.

[bjl584]

My girlfriend is a RN. She works and makes god money. There was a time for a few months where she didn't work while she was finishing up school, but it was ok, as it wasn't to be a permanent situation.

[Thrif-t]

I worked full time until we had our 3rd child, then I went part time because daycare for 3 under 5 was gonna be a killer. That was 18 years ago and I'll never go back full time unless some unforeseen circumstance forces me to.

My DH never took a management position until the last 5 years. Being a regular worker, he was able to work flex time (not take a lunch, leave an hour early) allowing him to coach the kids in soccer, baseball/softball and basketball.

My other part time job was managing my house and finding ways for my family to save money! And not to toot my own horn (but ok I am because I'm proud of me!) I was dang good at it. There wasn't anything that we wanted to do that we didn't because of money. We always found a way. Might not of been deluxe but we did it and have a lot of great memories!

The kids didn't have the latest and greatest in tech and I didn't buy a lot of junk food, made my own, but they survived. They're still at the age that they don't appreciate all we did so they could have the childhood that they did, but someday they will...and I bet they'll want to try to do the same for their kids.

I wasn't comfortable giving up work altogether, not because I love my career or anything; but just because I'm a bit of a control freak, and have to know that I have a way to take care of myself should I need to. And I've always contributed to my 401k, that was very important to me to have a job that I could participate in the 401k.

I have a small pension from the company I worked full time at, and DH will have a nice pension from his county government job, so I suspect we will actually have more money in retirement than we did when we were supporting a family, but I wouldn't change a thing about my life.

[alliecat79]

When I had my son fifteen years ago, I could not afford to stay home. I now make close to three times that much money having gone back to school and built my career. A lot of that time I spent as a single parent. I'm now remarried with another baby on the way (I know, I know, what am I THINKING!) I could not give up my career. It is such a part of my identity and I am enamored with the financial freedoms that I have. Until the state of Illinois goes completely belly up (which it may), I will have a pension. I recently opened a 403b and intend to spend the next twenty years funding it.

I think for me, working is autonomy, freedom and identity. And I feel that by having continued to work, I can always find something that will generate income (I've hatched many a plan a, b and c in various scenarios over my career). This is not true for everyone's situation. My financial situation is not perfect, but it's good. I drive an 8 year old Honda with 150k miles on it. Can I afford a better car? You betcha. Do I want to invest in one? No, not particularly. I try to live frugally, stick to my budget, etc. I guess what I would say started out as need has become a strong choice. I don't regret any of it.

Monkey Mama, yes, the taxes are insane. But my husband and I have worked ourselves upwards enough that the income still offsets that significant cost. We will see how I feel when I start paying this childcare bill soon...

[LivingAlmostLarge]

When I had my son fifteen years ago, I could not afford to stay home. I now make close to three times that much money having gone back to school and built my career. A lot of that time I spent as a single parent. I'm now remarried with another baby on the way (I know, I know, what am I THINKING!) I could not give up my career. It is such a part of my identity and I am enamored with the financial freedoms that I have. Until the state of Illinois goes completely belly up (which it may), I will have a pension. I recently opened a 403b and intend to spend the next twenty years funding it.

I think for me, working is autonomy, freedom and identity. And I feel that by having continued to work, I can always find something that will generate income (I've hatched many a plan a, b and c in various scenarios over my career). This is not true for everyone's situation. My financial situation is not perfect, but it's good. I drive an 8 year old Honda with 150k miles on it. Can I afford a better car? You betcha. Do I want to invest in one? No, not particularly. I try to live frugally, stick to my budget, etc. I guess what I would say started out as need has become a strong choice. I don't regret any of it.

Monkey Mama, yes, the taxes are insane. But my husband and I have worked ourselves upwards enough that the income still offsets that significant cost. We will see how I feel when I start paying this childcare bill soon...

Did you consider having your husband stay at home? Why does it have to be the wife? I ask because our neighbors the man stays at home. He likes it. It worked out well for them and she's said so. So it's not gender specific. I've seen an increase in dads staying at home.

[myrdale]

I am not married so take my opinion with a grain of salt. While I don't want to come across as a chauvinist, my personal view has been it is a badge of honor for a man to make enough income that his wife doesn't have to work. It really depends on the situation.

If there are young children (new born through 7 or 8 years old) I'd put much more value on the wife staying home to care / raise / teach the children.

If the husband or wife is in school, it very well may make some level of sense to take 6 months to a year off on a temporary basis.

If the husband is 5 years older than the wife, he retires and she is still working, I don't think that is an issue.

If you were incredibly wealthy outside of your own efforts, lottery or inheritance, and in your 20's-40's, I think you should still work.

If the wife were to have a tremendous source of income, MD, executive, etc., I think the husband should be out doing something.

If the wife thinks she is too good to work and wants to stay home and be pampered, I think I'd have a problem with that. But then again there is always divorce!

Keeping religion out of the whole argument, I think there is still a spiritual / moral point to be made that man should work. I've always liked the line from Hamlet "Adam digged" which I've taken as meaning he had to toil against the land for his food / lively hood.

From a man's point of view, if I were a woman, I just don't think I'd want to be married to someone who didn't work.

Of course this whole my whole view on this matter is ignoring disability or sever illness. In the case of disability, on many occasions I've seen a man with 2 artificial legs out jogging, a guy with one arm serving tables, a woman in a wheel chair running a cash register.

Ultimately I think it should be a group decision between the husband and wife. She wants to say home and keep the same life style, and he doesn't think he can support the mortgage, kids, two new car payments, and eating out 3 times a week and the family vacations alone, she'd better be willing to cut back or do something part time to bring money to the table.