Aren't the Big 3 a little hypcritical? thoughts on foreign cars

[GREENBACK]

The lighter duty big trucks (1/2 ton) have credible competition from the Toyota Tundra and Nissan Titan. This has been good, the big 3 trucks have improved greatly in the last 5 years or so.

I have a '98 GMC 1/2 ton that has been used extensively as a real truck. I used it to pull a newer Tundra out of a North Dakota bog a few years ago that I had previously driven through. I don't think they come that close to being the equivalent when it really counts. My bias comes from realistic situations like this.

I also have a Ford 1/2 ton and can tell numerous stories of it outperforming the "foreign" competition. For typical driving the others may keep up but when the chips are down I think they lag behind.

[LivingAlmostLarge]

Greenback most might argue the trucks are lagging behind because most people drive or need smaller cars. How many people really need trucks? And use them appropriately?

[SnoopyCool]

Ancient VW bugs?

...are exceptionally easy to work on. You can rebuild the engine in a very short amount of time (speaking as a daughter of a mechanic who LOVED VW bugs and all their morphs; 3-wheeler, to name one). Personally, everyone I've known to have one has rebuilt the engine. But the fact that you CAN keep them going forever makes it a positive in my book.

[GREENBACK]

LAL
I know most people that own big trucks and SUV's don't really need them. If I didn't have to haul boats, firewood, trailers and go off road a lot I wouldn't want one. They are certainly gas guzzlers and I think it's crazy that "soccer mom's" and others ever bought these things to haul kids and groceries around.

An example of former excess maybe.

[jIM_Ohio]

I guess I don't know how long to expect out of a car lol I admit I am patriotic.

Goldy- most of your saturn post proved my point. You had low expectations.

I want to give you a patriotic test. Go outside in whatever you are wearing now.

Say "I am proud to be american!" really loud (get some attention).

Then say "Buy American" even louder.

Then take off every article of clothing you have that says "made in china" on it.

Come back in and tell us how much clothes you are still wearing.

Buy american is a way to say our stuff is worse than foreigners, but buy it anyway.

Free market suggests the best products will be the ones people buy- no slogans needed.

[disneysteve]

Buy american is a way to say our stuff is worse than foreigners, but buy it anyway.

Free market suggests the best products will be the ones people buy- no slogans needed.

Jim, I totally agree with your sentiment, but there are issues besides product quality. I'm no expert in this area, but I do know there are a lot of things that make for an uneven playing field. Unions, health care costs, government regulations and other issues are far higher in the US making it much cheaper to manufacture goods overseas. US plants could produce equivalent quality products but the cost to do so makes it not feasible. I'm not paying $10 for a made in the US product when a similar quality product made in China is $3 or $4.

Even "foreign" cars produced in the US fall into this because a lot of the work takes place in other countries even though final assembly happens here.

[jIM_Ohio]

Jim, I totally agree with your sentiment, but there are issues besides product quality. I'm no expert in this area, but I do know there are a lot of things that make for an uneven playing field. Unions, health care costs, government regulations and other issues are far higher in the US making it much cheaper to manufacture goods overseas. US plants could produce equivalent quality products but the cost to do so makes it not feasible. I'm not paying $10 for a made in the US product when a similar quality product made in China is $3 or $4.

Even "foreign" cars produced in the US fall into this because a lot of the work takes place in other countries even though final assembly happens here.

no decision can ever be made in a vacuum, especially with a global economy.

Which of these cars would last longer:
1) Ford Focus (Fusion now?)
2) Honda Accord
3) BMW (whichever series is equivalent size)

It's 2 or 3 probably. Depending on the measure (lowest cost of ownership, quality or other) the BMW might be ahead of the Honda or the Honda might be ahead of the BMW.

So there is more to the decision than just the sticker price, right?

How GM can sell many a car in one country (USA) and then have sales drop off in all others suggests that "cheap overseas labor" is only one cog in their quality problem, and not the root cause of any real issue right now.

I agree if a US company sells something for $10 and a foreign equivalent is $4, then I buy the foreign item. Saves me 60%, so that is a no brainer.

But that $4 item still has US jobs tied to it. Importing, transportation and packaging would be among them. This goes into the whole "the job is not eliminated, it is shifted to another part of economy" discussion. For example if there were more mexican assembly plants, maybe the US immigration problem is reduced? The jobs shift.

And sooner or later the manufacturing in those countries will create a middle class the way Ford created a middle class during the industrial revolution early in the 20th century.

[snafu]

Henry Ford opened his 1st plant in Canada in 1904. The Auto Pact was formalized in 1965 which was the inital step in Globalization. As I recall Silverado, Sierra, Ram Dakota, Ranger are made in Canada. Likewise Civic, Pilot, GM/Suzuku XL7 and Caravan. The car line changes regularly.
Parts are sourced world wide. Several Big 3 lines are made in Mexico.

The Quality Control group from Honda was hired by Hyundai and improvements should be evident in their 2006 and 2009 lines

[disneysteve]

Jim, I agree 100% with your post. I think the people that shout "Buy American" are simply not seeing the big picture. Everything is an American product and nothing is an American product at the same time. Every item sold in this country provides jobs in some way for American workers whether manufactured here or imported, distributed and sold here. Foreign companies spend billions in the US to market their products. How many Toyota and Honda and Hyundai and Kia and Mercedes ads do we see every day? How many people work in the trucking, shipping and train industries transporting all the imported goods? How many people work in retail establishments selling all the imported goods?

[Goldy1]

My parents are constantly berating people who buy foreign cars like they are bringind down the country. I casually have presented facts about how no car is all American, but people don't want to listent o what they don't want to hear so now I just don't bother picking the battle.

I imagine plenty of people have stories of foreign cars breaking down also.
When I turned in my 200 1low mileage SAturn in 2007 it

had power locks that had ceased to work at least 2 years ago so I was using my key (what a habit to break lol)

the part of the car that told me how much gas is in the tank had stopped working about a year ago so I had to zero out my miles and get gas after so many miles

last straw-twice while I was driving my car, all of a sudden the part of the car that tells me how fast I am going literally just stopped working (it did this on and off a few times) so my speed was a mystery(not good)

still I did MUCH better than people who buy new and sell 2 or 3 years later

I needed new brakes finally also (routine maintenance here) so I traded in instead of spening money on the car.
that ac was still kickin tho!!!

[disneysteve]

Henry Ford opened his 1st plant in Canada in 1904. The Auto Pact was formalized in 1965 which was the inital step in Globalization. As I recall Silverado, Sierra, Ram Dakota, Ranger are made in Canada. Likewise Civic, Pilot, GM/Suzuku XL7 and Caravan. The car line changes regularly.
Parts are sourced world wide. Several Big 3 lines are made in Mexico.

The Quality Control group from Honda was hired by Hyundai and improvements should be evident in their 2006 and 2009 lines

I don't think most people realize this. They think "American" cars are all made in America. It just isn't true and hasn't been for decades. My best friend in high school had a classic "American" muscle car, a 1969 Chevelle. It was made in Canada. This isn't a new phenomenon.

[jIM_Ohio]

My parents are constantly berating people who buy foreign cars like they are bringind down the country. I casually have presented facts about how no car is all American, but people don't want to listent o what they don't want to hear so now I just don't bother picking the battle.

I imagine plenty of people have stories of foreign cars breaking down also.
When I turned in my 200 1low mileage SAturn in 2007 it

had power locks that had ceased to work at least 2 years ago so I was using my key (what a habit to break lol)

the part of the car that told me how much gas is in the tank had stopped working about a year ago so I had to zero out my miles and get gas after so many miles

last straw-twice while I was driving my car, all of a sudden the part of the car that tells me how fast I am going literally just stopped working (it did this on and off a few times) so my speed was a mystery(not good)

still I did MUCH better than people who buy new and sell 2 or 3 years later

I needed new brakes finally also (routine maintenance here) so I traded in instead of spening money on the car.
that ac was still kickin tho!!!

My 1996 saturn SC2 has the same speedometer issue. That was wierd watching the speeed "spike" without giving it gas, huh?

[LivingAlmostLarge]

Then how can you say you did well for 7 years Goldy? Why didn't you try a honda or toyota or import?

Besides the point it's mostly made in the US. Few Toyota/hondas are made in Japan anymore, though there are a few.

[GREENBACK]

I guess I drive a foreign truck. It's a GMC. For those who don't know that stands for General Motors Canada.

[Pitman]

Personally, I would never pay $$$ for an American brand vehicle, if someone was to give me one for free, I would sell it immediately, and go buy a Japan brand car; Honda, Toyota, Nissan. Again personally, Japan manufactures the best vehicles, and I will continue to drive them.