Aren't the Big 3 a little hypcritical? thoughts on foreign cars

**disneysteve** · 02-17-2009, 09:16 AM

There really is no such thing as an American car anymore, as much as the folks in Detroit would like us to believe otherwise. You have cars made in Canada and Mexico for US-based companies. You have cars made in the US with lots of parts made in other countries. You have cars made in the US by foreign-based companies. You have business alliances between US and foreign automakers.

There is no truly 100% American car as far as I know.

**SnoopyCool** · 02-17-2009, 09:46 AM

Thoughts on foreign cars? I love my Toyota, which was made in my home state of Kentucky. A win-win for me and my family, as many of them work for Toyota there.

**jIM_Ohio** · 02-17-2009, 09:53 AM

Toyota and Honda assemble cars here in the states with US auto workers. Because they are not "union", they do not get the same respect as UAW employed companies.

I bet the people saying "buy american" are wearing t-shirts made in china. That is hypocritical.

I'll buy a UAW built car when its a better car for the money. Right now that money is going to honda, and I am damn proud to say I drive two hondas.

Buy what lasts, and let the dollar teach the car companies what the consumer wants.

**kork13** · 02-17-2009, 01:39 PM

My sentiments lie precisely with Jim.... If the American companies were to make a better car than their foreign competitors, then I'll buy their cars. But until then, sorry, my money's going toward what I really want, not what I'm told I "should" want "because that's the patriotic thing to do". pfft.... give me a break

P.S. btw, my Honda's parts are something like 50% japan, 30% US, and 20% Canada, assembled in Ontario. ...just to demonstrate Steve's point.

**Goldy1** · 02-17-2009, 01:58 PM

I realize this is off topic for finance, but who says foreign cars are better quality? I am sure we all have examples either way of foreign or domestic lasting or not lasting. Myself;I bought a new SAturn in 2000 and rode it until 2007 with little issues(although my miles were low) I have never had a foreign car.

Also, good point on foreign cars with them making some in the USA and employing Americans.
I am sure a lot of people who preach but American would take a job with Toyota if they needed to feed thier family. lol I would.

Still it's not my style to buy foreign. I think of it kind of in a fashion kind of sense more than economic since the above issues disprove it being patriotic.

**jIM_Ohio** · 02-17-2009, 02:07 PM

Originally posted by Goldy1 View Post

I realize this is off topic for finance, but who says foreign cars are better quality? I am sure we all have examples either way of foreign or domestic lasting or not lasting. Myself;I bought a new SAturn in 2000 and rode it until 2007 with little issues(although my miles were low) I have never had a foreign car.

Also, good point on foreign cars with them making some in the USA and employing Americans.
I am sure a lot of people who preach but American would take a job with Toyota if they needed to feed thier family. lol I would.

Still it's not my style to buy foreign. I think of it kind of in a fashion kind of sense more than economic since the above issues disprove it being patriotic.
MY dad retired at GM from the line when he was about 48 years old with only 21 years of service, many years laid off in there. He now has medical benefits and a decent sized pension for life. I am happy for him, but he lives in a bubble. He used to wonder why he was making $30 an hour and I was making less as a college graduate before he retired. lol

You are kidding right- 2000-2007 is considered good use for a car? I bought my Honda's in 2006 and if they do not last into 2016 I will be sorely disappointed. 10 years and 200k miles is my expectation. 300k miles maybe.

Goldy, with all due respect (I don't think I have ever said a cross word to you) I think your expectations for saturn were way too low if 7 years and 130k miles is where your use ended. You did not list the milage, I am just guessing... but I think 7 years is not long enough for a car to work- 10 or 15 years needs to be the expectation (not 7).

I have owned 2 saturns and 1 honda. I am not owning a saturn again anytime soon. My 1996 SC2 lasted close to 10 years (1996-2006) and gave me 150k miles (replaced engine at around 40k miles), but the last year was really expensive (had 20k of cc debt from car repairs on the SC2 and ford focus).

**edit** I will also add a disclaimer that my college degree bears the name of GM, and my uncle also retired from UAW. But I don't let that sway me from making a good financial choice when purchasing a car.

I buy what costs me the lowest cost of ownership. Honda.

**disneysteve** · 02-17-2009, 02:13 PM

Originally posted by Goldy1 View Post

Myself;I bought a new SAturn in 2000 and rode it until 2007 with little issues(although my miles were low)

My Camry is a 1998. I bought it used in August 1998 with 11,000 miles. It is now nearly 12 years old with 115,000 miles. I hope to keep it for at least 150,000 miles which would be another 3 years or so.

**kork13** · 02-17-2009, 02:48 PM

Originally posted by disneysteve View Post

My Camry is a 1998. I bought it used in August 1998 with 11,000 miles.

Yeesh.... How'd you pull that off? A 1998-model car was purchased new, got 11k miles sometime within 8 months, and was then resold to you? Was the previous owner a traveling salesman? And to resell it so quickly.... yikes....

**momof1in150** · 02-17-2009, 03:03 PM

My DH drives a 99 VW Golf that had 45 miles on it when we purchased it in Hawaii. It was moved to RI 7 years ago and the car runs perfect. We have had one "American" car and it was one problem after another. We prefer German or Japanese cars because they are engineered better. American manufacturers need to make better cars for us to even consider them.

**GREENBACK** · 02-17-2009, 03:05 PM

I'm not a hard core " buy american" guy but I live in farm country and see a lot of heavy hauling vehicles and do some myself. I can't think of the last time I've seen anything that wasn't a GM, Ford or Dodge. Farming's a buisness and if Toyota or Nissan or whoever made a better product, then that's what you would see. I can't speak for passenger vehicles but for those of us who really need powerful full sized vehicles, the american plants have it right. They have a lot of other problems but they have great full sized vehicles for those who "need" them.

I support american plants because I'm an american but they have to get their act together and let go of the dreamlike existence they've enjoyed for far too long.

**LivingAlmostLarge** · 02-17-2009, 03:14 PM

Goldie, Consumer Reports and Edmunds long term car reviews! That's who says foreign cars are better. They rate cars ever year Consumer Reports. And american cars are better than European but have not caught up to Japanese.

Second, Edmunds drives new cars for 3 years. Rotating every month a new editor, who writes what they think about the car AND all repairs. Well in every review I've read about the boring Honda/Toyota versus cool ford, saturns, etc, they COST a lot more. Every editor was like "Uh i can't believe I changed the brake pads after 30k miles!"

Third, I have a 1999 Toyota Corolla and 2000 Ford Focus. The ford has cost around 5x as much to maintain, and with the 90k service coming up, I expect more to occur!

I have all records since both cars were bought new. Also since my DH and I rotate driving, it's not our driving habits. It's the cars. And the focus has SUCKED. If I weren't into driving them into the ground, then I'd dump the car.

Also I hate to point this out, but you can easily tell that my corolla is built to last, but the ford is literally falling apart. Even the mechanics when we get oil changes make comments like "wanna sell the corolla?" to "when are you replacing that ford?"

I gotta say I love my corolla. My mom has a 1997 avalon, still running. My grandmother has my aunt's 1994 honda accord still running like a dream.

**jIM_Ohio** · 02-17-2009, 03:16 PM

One more point- when was the last time Honda offered a 0% financing or cash back on one of it's vehicles?

We went car shopping a month ago and found 1.9% financing. The salesman told us that was as low as he's seen Honda offer in YEARS. No need to discount or offer an incentive for a good product.

Every time GM, Ford or Chrysler offers "cash back" or another rebate, they reduce the value of every used car they made 10 years ago by that same dollar amount.

That is just not good business.

**jIM_Ohio** · 02-17-2009, 03:20 PM

Originally posted by LivingAlmostLarge View Post

Third, I have a 1999 Toyota Corolla and 2000 Ford Focus. The ford has cost around 5x as much to maintain, and with the 90k service coming up, I expect more to occur!

I have all records since both cars were bought new. Also since my DH and I rotate driving, it's not our driving habits. It's the cars. And the focus has SUCKED. If I weren't into driving them into the ground, then I'd dump the car.

LAL- there is such a thing as throwing good money after bad. We financed a 1999 focus for 5 years, and by the middle of the 5th year, with around 6 payments left we ran into the same issues you did. In 2006 we traded it in for an accord and are not looking back.

It might have cost us more "short term", as car payments might be more than repairs... but we had 20k in car repair cc debt in 2006. We don't have that problem anymore.

**globetraveler** · 02-17-2009, 03:25 PM

Originally posted by GREENBACK View Post

I'm not a hard core " buy american" guy but I live in farm country and see a lot of heavy hauling vehicles and do some myself. I can't think of the last time I've seen anything that wasn't a GM, Ford or Dodge. Farming's a buisness and if Toyota or Nissan or whoever made a better product, then that's what you would see. I can't speak for passenger vehicles but for those of us who really need powerful full sized vehicles, the american plants have it right. They have a lot of other problems but they have great full sized vehicles for those who "need" them.

I support american plants because I'm an american but they have to get their act together and let go of the dreamlike existence they've enjoyed for far too long.

Well Said. I agree with this, as I also grew up on a farm where heavy hauling and towing were everyday life.

I have never driven anything but fullsize pickup trucks, even thought I went to school and now work in the IT industry. But at the same time, I actually use my truck unlike most folks that by pickups nowadays.

I dont have anything against passenger cars, most of my family have them, but they have there uses same as full size trucks do.

Aren't the Big 3 a little hypcritical? thoughts on foreign cars