journey to retirement

[LivingAlmostLarge]

Do most people work at jobs they hate so they can save for retirement? Or do you switch jobs and find something else? Is it important for the money or the work life balance?

Did you take a lower paying job because of work life balance knowing that it would delay or prolong retiring? Or did you take a job you hated or stayed at a job you hated because of the money?

Had a conversation with a friend this weekend who said she has to work for another 6 years then can downshift to a lower stress, lower pay job at 45 and then be on track to retire early by 50. I said if she is so unhappy and she did look sad, why not do it now? Why not look for a job that pays less and she enjoys more? She couldn't fathom it except to say that if she made less money it would take longer to "retire".

I said but isn't the journey just as important? They are mad fiendiest and Mr money mustache followers. I don't tell her so are we, but we are more it's about the journey than getting there the fastest.

We're not super early retirees or adopters of retiring early. My DH isn't ready but we like to be prepared in case he gets laid off or hates his job at any point. We have lots of FU money and can downsize and downgrade. But we want to enjoy our time together now. My DH always talks about not getting a year off with the kids he can't get back and figures maybe it's worth working a year longer on the back end.

But have you guys chosen a lesser job or more money? How have you balanced it?

[disneysteve]

I'm sure the question will generate some interesting stories. Here's mine.

From 1993 when I went into practice I was in a very busy practice where I worked my butt off and learned a great deal about being a doctor. I learned medical stuff but, just as importantly if not more so, I learned about being in practice and the business side of things. I was on call every other night and every other weekend. I was on staff at 2 hospitals and 1 nursing home in addition to the office practice. I worked 2 nights a week. My boss was a lot older and took a lot more vacation time, often with very little notice to me. When he was away, I had to do everything, be on call every night and weekend, work 4 nights a week, etc.

After nearly 7 years of that, I had enough. My daughter was getting old enough to notice that I was never home. And most importantly I felt that I wasn't being treated fairly at all. I gave notice at the beginning of February 2000 and was told not to bother coming back.

I was "retired" for almost 3 months during which I greatly enjoyed not having to work. I sold collectibles on ebay full time and we lived off of our EF. We spent a week in Vegas and took a spontaneous 10-day trip to Disney World (and by spontaneous, I mean we decided to go on Tuesday and left on Saturday). I made a very half-hearted effort to find a new job. Eventually, a job found me. A sales rep who knew I was available gave my name to another doctor who was looking to hire someone. I started with him in April 2000.

I started on a part-time basis making far less than the job I had left. As business picked up, I expanded my hours eventually getting to full time but still making less than at the old job. BUT I wasn't on call at all (unless my boss left the country). I didn't work weekends. I didn't do any hospital work. I was far happier and had much better work-home balance.

Fast forward 16 years. The hassles of that job had steadily increased and the pay had been flat for a long, long time. Being frugal, we managed to do okay despite having no raises for many years but eventually it just wasn't working anymore.

I started looking for other options and began doing per diem work for a local urgent care system while still full time at the practice. The working conditions were better. The pay was way better. The benefits were better. After 10 months I reduced my practice to part time and increased urgent care to part time. 9 months after that, I left the practice and now do urgent care full time.

I've got great hours. I love what I do. I have great benefits and I'm making the most money I've ever made in my career. So I found the job with the great balance AND the great pay.

[rennigade]

Its difficult to find the best case scenario when it comes to a job.

I used to work at a place that I barely had to do anything besides show up. I didnt mind it. What I did mind was where we lived and the city we lived in (near DC.) My commute was around 45 minutes between walking/metro...I didnt drive.

When we moved I found a new job...55 minute commute one way driving...but theres no traffic. I actually work noon to 8:30pm. I dont have kids so I love the hours. I love where we live so the long commute doesnt bother me. Job requires more out of me so the day goes much quicker.

My wife on the other hand still works for the government near DC. She is required to be in the office 2 days/week...so she has to drive 150 miles one way and stay in a hotel 2 nights/week. She tried driving really early then working all day...didnt go over well. Long drive, stressful traffic, 8 hours working...never again. She loves her job so shes willing to do the commute for now.

We figure shes going to spend around $18k on a hotel per year. If she found a new job she wouldnt get paid what she does now (even subtracting the $18k)...and the benefits are really good in terms of pension/retirement and her time off benefits are ridiculous.

She has it worse than me but makes more than double what I do...and it would be nice if I had about a 20 min commute.

[Thrif-t]

I'd say we picked lesser jobs to be able to have more family time. I work part time and have since we had our last child. I've always been a mom first. We lived within our means and made it work.

DH stayed in a non management job about 18 years so he could have a more flexible schedule and be able to be around for the kids. He spent a lot of years coaching their soccer, basketball, softball and baseball teams. Once all that was behind he took the management job.

Even though we made less money we always saved. I'd say DH could probably retire in 4 more years at 58, but we need the health benefits so he'll have to stay an additional 4 years. Hopefully by then all the kids will have gotten jobs with their own benefits.

I wouldn't say I love my job, and I'm definitely working below my potential, but my job doesn't define me, and our family life is more important than any big sum of money I could've made.

[Smallsteps]

The questions you bring up are interesting. I too look at many friends who are unhappy in their jobs but they think they must stay for pay or benefits or the just so they are not the newbie. Some companies count on that.
I am faced with that right now my temp gig wants we to become permanent it is easy work paid fairly well but so so boring I am miserable.
Do I want to stay or risk being out of work a week or two until I am placed somewhere new maybe I will dislike that too etc. I applied for the permanent spot the interview is next week I want to either withdraw my app or just use the interview for practice and say no thanks after the offer.

I think finding something you like or are proud of is worth far more then staying at something based on what you Think might happen. Too many people stay at something based on promises that can and will change with lets say a new owner of company or merger etc.
I used to work at a place that made promises of healthcare and employee discounts after retirement, if you had so many years in etc. A new parent company changed all the rules for those aiming for the magic # were told nope that deal is off the table. The benefits and company match for 401 all changed so some of whom planned for decades had all their equations changed. Who knows maybe they will be sold again and things will be different still.

[tripods68]

I left my corporate banker's job to go work in the public sector after we found out my then G/F was pregnant (now wife) about 15 years ago. I wanted a balance work/life, with our newborn and stability. Public sector offered more significant benefits compared to the previous corporate job, better health care coverage, flexible time off, and a great pension. Since my wife also worked FT, I did not have to bring more income to maintain our frugal lifestyle. Fast forward, I'm still in my current public sector job and looking to retire in 5.5 years @ 55 years old.

[LivingAlmostLarge]

I feel a little better now looking at our stuff in the personal capital website. It is projecting a lot more income than I know we need at a much lower saving rate than we're doing. Everything looks promising. It's saying we can definitely retire at age 53 and 55 with out running out of money. Not including SS or anything. It says we can actually retire at age 50 for me if we wanted to. The only shortfall is we won't have enough for college $30k short based on our saving projections.

I don't feel so bad anymore about not working and DH taking a year off or taking a lesser paying job. Guess we're still okay and we aren't as stressed out as our friends who I don't know what they are working so hard for.

[MonkeyMama]

Life is short. Being happy in our jobs is most important.

I don't feel that we have ever had to compromise. We work far less than most people, have shorter commutes, etc. No doubt about it. But we will also retire earlier than most. We have always been frugal/efficient with money. You can have both.

I hadn't given it much thought because most our career decisions were made in our early 20s. Is when I took my current job and my spouse "retired" to stay home with kids. I can't say retirement was particularly on our radar at that time. But we've always had a high savings rate and can retire early. I think it's all just intertwined. The same savings approach that allowed us to work as little as we want and to be very choosy about jobs is the reason we are also ahead on retirement.

[corn18]

This topic is germane to what my wife and I are trying to figure out right now. I love my current job, but it is high speed and low drag. Running a division in a fortune 100 company is very interesting and challenging to me. But my work / life balance is not consistent with what my wife and I want right now. So I love my job but want a better work / life balance. I could keep climbing the ladder and go more work / less life and completely retire at 55. Not much interested in that unless we agree that it ends at 55. I could downgrade to a less demanding job that pays somewhat less and retire at 58 instead of 55. This one has us interested. I could throttle all the way back to a much lower paying job (for me anyway) that I can do in my sleep and work until 60. This has merit also.

All we know is that current state is unacceptable. So something is going to change.

[bjl584]

This topic is germane to what my wife and I are trying to figure out right now. I love my current job, but it is high speed and low drag. Running a division in a fortune 100 company is very interesting and challenging to me. But my work / life balance is not consistent with what my wife and I want right now. So I love my job but want a better work / life balance. I could keep climbing the ladder and go more work / less life and completely retire at 55. Not much interested in that unless we agree that it ends at 55. I could downgrade to a less demanding job that pays somewhat less and retire at 58 instead of 55. This one has us interested. I could throttle all the way back to a much lower paying job (for me anyway) that I can do in my sleep and work until 60. This has merit also.

All we know is that current state is unacceptable. So something is going to change.

How old are you now?

I'd be tempted to go all in, pedal to the metal, then cash out my chips at 55 if you think you could stand it that long.

[TexasHusker]

When we are raising our kids, we always say to them "You can be what you want, and do what you want."

Of course, that's a lie. Once you have mouths to feed, you do what you must, not what you want. You often have to work at an unfulfilling job, for a boss who is a jerk, doing menial tasks that don't use a fraction of your brainpower.

That's really just life, and has been since the beginning of time. "Job satisfaction" is a fairly recent invention. Three generations ago, most folks were working in factories or on farms.

Our society has placed such a premium on job satisfaction that we can no longer find good folks to serve hamburgers, unplug potties, build a masonry fireplace, or shoe a horse. Our school systems are all "University Bound", and no one wants to really work anymore. They want to do something that "satisifies".

We have also bought into the lie that "knowledge" makes the world a better place, hook, line, and sinker. It might be a better place in terms of technology, but there is as much or more evil in the world right now as there ever has been.

There is also an undercurrent obsession with "retirement" and 401Ks: Folks are spending the bulk of their lives rat-holing their money for some thing they call "retirement" for their last decade or two on the planet. The mortality tables suggest that many will toil all these years and never even live to the ripe age of 60 or 70.

Life isn't about 401Ks and rollovers. It's about relationships. It's about making a difference in our communities. It's about raising children who can make a positive difference in the world, long after we are gone.

[corn18]

Life isn't about 401Ks and rollovers. It's about relationships. It's about making a difference in our communities. It's about raising children who can make a positive difference in the world, long after we are gone.

What a bunch of horse pucky that generalization is. Everyone in the military has a TSP which is a 401k. I did. Give me a lecture on making a difference in the world, will ya? I'll hold up my 20 year Navy career and 3 combat tours against anyone else all day long and twice on Sunday.

[rennigade]

Life isn't about 401Ks and rollovers. It's about relationships. It's about making a difference in our communities. It's about raising children who can make a positive difference in the world, long after we are gone.

You're in the wrong place considering the URL is savingadvice.com. People come here for advice on how to save.

[disneysteve]

Life isn't about 401Ks and rollovers. It's about relationships. It's about making a difference in our communities. It's about raising children who can make a positive difference in the world, long after we are gone.

I agree. It isn't all about 401Ks and saving for retirement. You need to live for today AND prepare for tomorrow. That's why we travel now, today. We don't wait for "someday" when we'll be able to travel because "someday" may never come. My wife's father died at 59. My dad died at 69. My retired cousin now has terminal cancer at 63.

Of course, you can get into a lot of trouble by only living for today because most people won't die young. My mom is 87 and going strong. Where would she be today if my father hadn't saved and invested during his life? It is those funds and SS that she is living on now and has been for the last 25 years since his death.

There needs to be balance. And there needs to be more to life than work. I served on the board of our temple for 10 years including 2 years as President. We are very active with a group that does a significant amount of fundraising for Give Kids the World in Florida and we have personally volunteered there a number of times. Our daughter is a volunteer supervisor with an online crisis intervention (suicide hotline) service. She already knows there is more to life than a paycheck. She works with a couple of other non-profits also.

It's all about balance.

[Gailete]

Once you have mouths to feed, you do what you must, not what you want

A situation that I found myself in many time over the years.

I learned to enjoy most of the jobs that I found myself in. I even worked a night or two at a lunchbox pie place. At one point they put me on line where I had to pick up the pies and put them in line for wrapping. I tend to look at a job and can quickly figure out the best and fastest way to do it. I challenged myself to not miss a single pie. I could tell somehow that I was going faster and faster and I glanced up and saw the entire crew staring at me. At that point they turned the machine off and told me that they had never seen anyone do what I had been doing as fast I had. They had apparently been turning up the machine and turning it up on me. Because of the glaze on the pies I felt like I had blistered the tips of my fingers and they hurt to touch anything for the next week. But it had been fun, but funny thing was they never called me back into work again. What good is having someone that can work circles around all the other employees?

But I did have a job, where I finally resigned with no job prospects in sight. I had been promised training for the job I was doing but never got it. Instead I kept getting lectures on everything I was doing wrong. DUH. Could that have anything to do with not getting the training that I had been promised. I worked at McDonalds for the next month even though I was an RN. I needed a break from the nonsense that I had to deal with. Then I got a job that I just loved at the county jail. I was told initially I would only ever be part time. Within two weeks I was full time. That was for all time my absolute favorite job until my knees just couldn't handle the concrete floors after 3 years. One of the guards from the jail had been served McDs by me so when he saw me at the jail as a nurse he was startled. He called me Mac from then on.

Once I became a nurse, I wasn't too worried about pay and benefits, but I did most of my nursing during so many of the great changes leading up to the health care changes that lead to obamacare. One of my first jobs I got a sign on bonus, but by the time I could no longer work, nurse’s wages were more or less frozen or the raises puny.

The job I wanted more than anything was to be a mom and raise my boys. I also was open to running a small at home business, so to that end read a lot of books on running a small business from home. When the time was right, I finally got to do it although the boys were out on there own at that point. Knowing if I had much better health to put into it, this business of selling online has been something I have enjoyed. I may on occasional days wish I could quit, but for the most part I love it, just wish I was making more. And I am at home running my small business. A wish granted by way of rheumatoid arthritis. Who would have thunk it.

I do read with fascination some the stories and incomes here. I was never very close to working those sorts of jobs at all. I can't even conceive of making $200K or even $100K a year! But I am happy in life and am blessed. I'm hoping to be able to 'retire' in 7 1/2 years. And I am working the finances here in that direction.