Financial Austerity

[disneysteve]

As for retirement, you will be missing out on free money but it will help you pay down your credit card - less in retirement but paying less interest to the cc company.

That's true, but just to play Devil's Advocate, OP stated his credit card is 8.99%.

The company match is typically 50 cents on the dollar, so an immediate and guaranteed 50% return, along with the upfront tax break on his contributions.

Is it worth giving up a 50% return to avoid paying 9% credit card interest?

I'm not pushing either way, but you do need to look at both sides.

[bjl584]

That's true, but just to play Devil's Advocate, OP stated his credit card is 8.99%.

The company match is typically 50 cents on the dollar, so an immediate and guaranteed 50% return, along with the upfront tax break on his contributions.

Is it worth giving up a 50% return to avoid paying 9% credit card interest?

I'm not pushing either way, but you do need to look at both sides.

I would argue that in this particular case, yes, it is worth giving up.
A 50% return is awesome, but OP is running a huge unsustainable deficit every month.
In OP's case, I'd rather have positive cash flow than a return of any percentage.

[Magic Johnson]

I've got a couple updates.

I called my insurance agent's office yesterday to see about having my renter's insurance coverage and monthly cost reduced. I was at $40,000 coverage plus slip and fall liability coverage for $31/mo. Apparently the lowest they can go is $30K coverage, plus the slip and fall. That will cost me $27/mo. I asked the secretary I was talking with to make the change. I could find a cheaper carrier, I suppose, but I have a history with this company, and I know them to not dink me around when I make a claim.

I also just sent a message to my credit union asking for an increase of my credit limit to $10K. I'm going to accumulate more debt from my custody case with my ex-wife. Hopefully I end up with legal debt in the $3-5K range, but I'm mentally prepared for a $10K cost.

[disneysteve]

I would argue that in this particular case, yes, it is worth giving up.
A 50% return is awesome, but OP is running a huge unsustainable deficit every month.
In OP's case, I'd rather have positive cash flow than a return of any percentage.

I agree. I was just pointing out that there is an argument to be made either way.

I think saving for retirement is great, but not when you're racking up new debt at the same time. Stop the retirement contributions, use that money to pay your bills so that you don't need to take on as much debt, and then once you've leveled things out, resume the contributions.

[myrdale]

I watched a clip on Youtube last night of Dave Ramsey addressing stopping the retirement contribution. I thought it was a good discussion about why even thought it makes sense on paper to keep putting money to retirement, it not necessarily the case in reality.

https://youtu.be/IEE_QlWLQzU

[Magic Johnson]

I grew up in Mt. Pleasant when Magic was going to MSU. He came to Central Michigan once to play in a softball game. Before he hit it big!

As for retirement, you will be missing out on free money but it will help you pay down your credit card - less in retirement but paying less interest to the cc company.

Just another way to look at it. Otherwise lots of good advice here. I highly recommend a second job on those nights you are free.

I was a freshman at MSU when Magic announced that he was HIV positive. It was a really sad time on campus. In 1991, being HIV positive was akin to a death sentence.

[riverwed070707]

I've got a couple updates.

I called my insurance agent's office yesterday to see about having my renter's insurance coverage and monthly cost reduced. I was at $40,000 coverage plus slip and fall liability coverage for $31/mo. Apparently the lowest they can go is $30K coverage, plus the slip and fall. That will cost me $27/mo. I asked the secretary I was talking with to make the change. I could find a cheaper carrier, I suppose, but I have a history with this company, and I know them to not dink me around when I make a claim.

I also just sent a message to my credit union asking for an increase of my credit limit to $10K. I'm going to accumulate more debt from my custody case with my ex-wife. Hopefully I end up with legal debt in the $3-5K range, but I'm mentally prepared for a $10K cost.

Read through about 2/3 of the responses so sorry if this is mentioned, but I'm a landlord and require my tenants carry renters insurance... it shouldn't be more than $40 PER YEAR. This company is taking advantage of you - find a new provider ASAP. Small drop in the bucket but every little bit helps.

Other short-ish term fix that jumps out as me is getting rid of that car payment. I agree with others its a terrible time to swap but you might get more from your truck than you think - a lot of retailers are paying cash for used vehicles without even needing to buy your new vehicle from them. Worth looking into. A truck isn't the only option for 4wd - lots of SUVs and even sedans that get 20+ MPG that still have AWD or 4wd. If that's not a logical solution, I second finding a side hustle/second job and prioritizing getting that paid off to give you some wiggle room in your budget.

Long term consideration. You have decades of experience in the workforce. I didn't see where you said what you do or what your skill set is but that is an incredibly low salary for that much time in the workforce. Can you better leverage your skills in the private sector? I'd be keeping my eyes open and my resume up to date.

I commend you for making space for mental health care. Have you checked to see if your work benefits include free or reduced priced services? Or perhaps there is a local organization that can help offset some of that cost?

Sorry you're going through all this, glad you found us and I hope you'll stick around and keep us posted on your progress!

[Petunia 100]

I've got a couple updates.

I called my insurance agent's office yesterday to see about having my renter's insurance coverage and monthly cost reduced. I was at $40,000 coverage plus slip and fall liability coverage for $31/mo. Apparently the lowest they can go is $30K coverage, plus the slip and fall. That will cost me $27/mo. I asked the secretary I was talking with to make the change. I could find a cheaper carrier, I suppose, but I have a history with this company, and I know them to not dink me around when I make a claim.

I also just sent a message to my credit union asking for an increase of my credit limit to $10K. I'm going to accumulate more debt from my custody case with my ex-wife. Hopefully I end up with legal debt in the $3-5K range, but I'm mentally prepared for a $10K cost.

Is your ex-wife not willing to make a reasonable custody agreement with you? When my ex-husband and I divorced, we agreed to 50/50 legal custody. This worked out GREAT, as the court system left it up to us to work out the details. It was better for the kids, it was better for him, it was better for me.

[Magic Johnson]

Is your ex-wife not willing to make a reasonable custody agreement with you? When my ex-husband and I divorced, we agreed to 50/50 legal custody. This worked out GREAT, as the court system left it up to us to work out the details. It was better for the kids, it was better for him, it was better for me.

My ex-wife is not willing to make a reasonable custody agreement with me. I could go on for a long while and am trying to figure out how much detail to include.

I signed a terrible parenting time agreement when we were divorced last April. That agreement went unenforced until New Year's Eve Day. That was the day that my ex-wife found out about my new girlfriend. I had told my 15- and 19-year-old girls about my girlfriend, so I wasn't hiding it. It just wasn't any of my ex-wife's business. She found out about my girlfriend abruptly when I accidentally sent my ex-wife a text message intended for my girlfriend. While the text was completely clean, I clearly implied that she (my girlfriend) would be spending the night with me at my apartment.

My ex-wife became very angry. I have two theories why she's quite as angry as she is. The first is that she is not over me. We've been divorced since April and separated since May 2019. But it's possible that she's not over me. The other theory I have why she's so mad at me is that me having a girlfriend has made her realize that she has lost control of me.

Either way, or some combination of both, or another reason I've not come up with, she remains very angry with me, and is strictly enforcing the terrible parenting time agreement I signed.

I think there's something else at play. When we were married, I was the more frugal, and she was the more spendy of us. Not that I'm really frugal, and not that she's really spendy, but there was a difference in our spending habits. When we got divorced, I spent about $2,400 on attorney fees and court costs. I think my ex is taking pleasure in me spending money on this custody case, even if it means that she spends money too.

This all defies logic, but I think emotions, and not logic are at play. The other thing is that my ex, once she makes up her mind, does not give in, does not give up. Ever.

[disneysteve]

The only “good” thing in that whole story is that one kid is already an adult so she can do as she wishes and the other will be in 3 years. At least you don’t have two little ones where you’d be dealing with this for a decade or more. Good luck to you.

[Magic Johnson]

Read through about 2/3 of the responses so sorry if this is mentioned, but I'm a landlord and require my tenants carry renters insurance... it shouldn't be more than $40 PER YEAR. This company is taking advantage of you - find a new provider ASAP. Small drop in the bucket but every little bit helps.

Other short-ish term fix that jumps out as me is getting rid of that car payment. I agree with others its a terrible time to swap but you might get more from your truck than you think - a lot of retailers are paying cash for used vehicles without even needing to buy your new vehicle from them. Worth looking into. A truck isn't the only option for 4wd - lots of SUVs and even sedans that get 20+ MPG that still have AWD or 4wd. If that's not a logical solution, I second finding a side hustle/second job and prioritizing getting that paid off to give you some wiggle room in your budget.

Long term consideration. You have decades of experience in the workforce. I didn't see where you said what you do or what your skill set is but that is an incredibly low salary for that much time in the workforce. Can you better leverage your skills in the private sector? I'd be keeping my eyes open and my resume up to date.

I commend you for making space for mental health care. Have you checked to see if your work benefits include free or reduced priced services? Or perhaps there is a local organization that can help offset some of that cost?

Sorry you're going through all this, glad you found us and I hope you'll stick around and keep us posted on your progress!

I'll look into cheaper renter's insurance.

I am thinking about selling my truck.

Yes, I have about 26 years experience after finishing my bachelor's. What I do is - I'm a soil conservationist with the Natural Resources Conservation Service, an agency within the United States Department of Agriculture. I went to Michigan State University and graduated with a degree in Crop and Soil Science. I bounced around a few jobs for a while, then in October 2000, I was hired by my alma mater as a field crops educator for Michigan State University Extension. While I was at MSUE, I finished a master's degree in extension education.

I did fairly well at that job for quite a few years. Then, about six or seven years ago, things started to fall apart. I was actually fired (the term that was used in the paperwork was "separated from employment") on January 28, 2021. My severance package ran out on May 28, after 120 days.

Interestingly, I applied for the job I have with USDA three days before I was fired. After I was fired, I started applying for a lot of jobs in the private sector. I applied for a job in seed sales, agricultural chemical sales (at least three jobs in ag-chem sales), I applied for a job in crop insurance sales. I applied for a job at a large wheat mill. After my severance package ran out, I began applying for hourly jobs. I applied at a milk processing plant, a manufacturer of food flavorings. I applied as the assistant manager at a lumber yard. I applied for a job at check-out at my local grocery store. Then I got that job at that factory I talked about in my other thread. But I didn't actually work for the factory. I worked for a temp agency that rented me out to the factory. I started that job on July 20. That day is what I have since dubbed "rock bottom". I was sure I was going to work at that factory for 20 years.

Then, on August 24, while I was eating lunch, I read an email from the company that is contracted to hire for the federal government. I had a tentative job offer from NRCS. I had never interviewed for the job. (I have since learned that that is called a direct hire.) I accepted the tentative job offer, without negotiating for a higher salary, about 45 minutes later. I should have negotiated for a higher salary. But I was 48 years old, I was working a temp job at a factory, and I had completely struck out with the private agricultural industry. I was thankful to have any job offer in a field related to my education.

It took a while to get through the USDA's official hiring process. I had to undergo an extensive background check. My appointment began on October 10.

My job started off rough. The only way anyone at my office knew that I was starting was a Facebook post I made in September, after the official job offer was made. I was already Facebook friends with one of my office mates. My supervisor at the area office didn't bother to tell anyone at my local office that I had been hired. He also didn't bother to order me a computer. I literally sat at my desk for eight hours a day and did next to nothing for four days. I almost quit, but I couldn't. It was USDA, or it was the factory (my supervisor at the factory let me know that there was a job waiting for me there if I ever wanted to come back).

Sometime around mid-December, things started to click for me at NRCS. I was starting to be assigned my own projects, the processes around our programs began to make sense. I already knew most of the people in my office, because I had worked that county when I was with MSUE, and I was really getting along with nearly all of them. There are two people at my office who aren't my favorite people, but we get along just fine.

So, I think I'm on my way to a promotion in the future. The district conservationist (that's the job that's one place above my current job) in a neighboring county will retire in three years. I have my eye on that job. There's bound to be another DC position open up somewhere close by in the future, too. A DC position pays $80 - $100K.

I now love my new job. It doesn't pay as well as my previous job, but I think I can make some money in a few years. But no. I'm not going to look for a job in the private sector.

[Petunia 100]

My ex-wife is not willing to make a reasonable custody agreement with me. I could go on for a long while and am trying to figure out how much detail to include.

I signed a terrible parenting time agreement when we were divorced last April. That agreement went unenforced until New Year's Eve Day. That was the day that my ex-wife found out about my new girlfriend. I had told my 15- and 19-year-old girls about my girlfriend, so I wasn't hiding it. It just wasn't any of my ex-wife's business. She found out about my girlfriend abruptly when I accidentally sent my ex-wife a text message intended for my girlfriend. While the text was completely clean, I clearly implied that she (my girlfriend) would be spending the night with me at my apartment.

My ex-wife became very angry. I have two theories why she's quite as angry as she is. The first is that she is not over me. We've been divorced since April and separated since May 2019. But it's possible that she's not over me. The other theory I have why she's so mad at me is that me having a girlfriend has made her realize that she has lost control of me.

Either way, or some combination of both, or another reason I've not come up with, she remains very angry with me, and is strictly enforcing the terrible parenting time agreement I signed.

I think there's something else at play. When we were married, I was the more frugal, and she was the more spendy of us. Not that I'm really frugal, and not that she's really spendy, but there was a difference in our spending habits. When we got divorced, I spent about $2,400 on attorney fees and court costs. I think my ex is taking pleasure in me spending money on this custody case, even if it means that she spends money too.

This all defies logic, but I think emotions, and not logic are at play. The other thing is that my ex, once she makes up her mind, does not give in, does not give up. Ever.

Yes, she does sound angry and not-yet-over-it. Have you tried pointing out to her that every dollar you spend on legal fees is a dollar you will not be able to spend helping your children get started in life? (Cars, college, wedding, whatever.) That her behavior is ultimately hurting her own children?

How old are your minor children?

[Petunia 100]

I'll look into cheaper renter's insurance.

I am thinking about selling my truck.

Yes, I have about 26 years experience after finishing my bachelor's. What I do is - I'm a soil conservationist with the Natural Resources Conservation Service, an agency within the United States Department of Agriculture. I went to Michigan State University and graduated with a degree in Crop and Soil Science. I bounced around a few jobs for a while, then in October 2000, I was hired by my alma mater as a field crops educator for Michigan State University Extension. While I was at MSUE, I finished a master's degree in extension education.

I did fairly well at that job for quite a few years. Then, about six or seven years ago, things started to fall apart. I was actually fired (the term that was used in the paperwork was "separated from employment") on January 28, 2021. My severance package ran out on May 28, after 120 days.

Interestingly, I applied for the job I have with USDA three days before I was fired. After I was fired, I started applying for a lot of jobs in the private sector. I applied for a job in seed sales, agricultural chemical sales (at least three jobs in ag-chem sales), I applied for a job in crop insurance sales. I applied for a job at a large wheat mill. After my severance package ran out, I began applying for hourly jobs. I applied at a milk processing plant, a manufacturer of food flavorings. I applied as the assistant manager at a lumber yard. I applied for a job at check-out at my local grocery store. Then I got that job at that factory I talked about in my other thread. But I didn't actually work for the factory. I worked for a temp agency that rented me out to the factory. I started that job on July 20. That day is what I have since dubbed "rock bottom". I was sure I was going to work at that factory for 20 years.

Then, on August 24, while I was eating lunch, I read an email from the company that is contracted to hire for the federal government. I had a tentative job offer from NRCS. I had never interviewed for the job. (I have since learned that that is called a direct hire.) I accepted the tentative job offer, without negotiating for a higher salary, about 45 minutes later. I should have negotiated for a higher salary. But I was 48 years old, I was working a temp job at a factory, and I had completely struck out with the private agricultural industry. I was thankful to have any job offer in a field related to my education.

It took a while to get through the USDA's official hiring process. I had to undergo an extensive background check. My appointment began on October 10.

My job started off rough. The only way anyone at my office knew that I was starting was a Facebook post I made in September, after the official job offer was made. I was already Facebook friends with one of my office mates. My supervisor at the area office didn't bother to tell anyone at my local office that I had been hired. He also didn't bother to order me a computer. I literally sat at my desk for eight hours a day and did next to nothing for four days. I almost quit, but I couldn't. It was USDA, or it was the factory (my supervisor at the factory let me know that there was a job waiting for me there if I ever wanted to come back).

Sometime around mid-December, things started to click for me at NRCS. I was starting to be assigned my own projects, the processes around our programs began to make sense. I already knew most of the people in my office, because I had worked that county when I was with MSUE, and I was really getting along with nearly all of them. There are two people at my office who aren't my favorite people, but we get along just fine.

So, I think I'm on my way to a promotion in the future. The district conservationist (that's the job that's one place above my current job) in a neighboring county will retire in three years. I have my eye on that job. There's bound to be another DC position open up somewhere close by in the future, too. A DC position pays $80 - $100K.

I now love my new job. It doesn't pay as well as my previous job, but I think I can make some money in a few years. But no. I'm not going to look for a job in the private sector.

This is a great story; it sounds as though the new job came along at just the right time.

Do you have any pension benefits from your years at the university? What about at your current job, are you accruing pension benefits?

[Magic Johnson]

Yes, she does sound angry and not-yet-over-it. Have you tried pointing out to her that every dollar you spend on legal fees is a dollar you will not be able to spend helping your children get started in life? (Cars, college, wedding, whatever.) That her behavior is ultimately hurting her own children?

How old are your minor children?

I've pointed out to her that spending money on attorneys and court costs is a bad idea for both of us, but no, I haven't told her that that money could otherwise be spent on our children.

My children are: girl 19, girl 15, boy 13, boy 11.

[Petunia 100]

I've pointed out to her that spending money on attorneys and court costs is a bad idea for both of us, but no, I haven't told her that that money could otherwise be spent on our children.

My children are: girl 19, girl 15, boy 13, boy 11.

Was she a good mother before all of the divorce ugliness? Put the needs of her children first?