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Question about Dave Ramsey style budgeting

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  • Question about Dave Ramsey style budgeting

    I do not follow Dave Ramsey's plan but I do listen to his show regularly and I'm very familiar with what he recommends. Being someone who doesn't follow a budget, though, I have a question. Maybe it is a stupid one but I figured I'd ask it anyway to better understand the process people use when making their budgets.

    He teaches to sit down at the start of each month and create a budget for that month, assigning a job for every dollar that will come in. That sounds very nice but it isn't nearly as easy as it sounds on the surface. I don't know exactly how much money will come in each month and I don't know exactly what our expenses will be each month, so how would I actually make such a zero-balance budget? Or do you just include a big fudge factor in the budget to account for that variability? For example, I'm paid hourly so if I work an hour more or a half hour less one week, that alters my pay.

    Dave says to pay food first, utilities second, and so on, but our food spending isn't the same each month. Our utility bills aren't identical every month. Some expenses are fixed like our mortgage payment or our cell phone bill but others are variable based on usage. I can't know on December 1 how much my water bill will be for the month. I have a general idea of the range but not a specific number. I can't control the price of gasoline. Today, it might be $3.25 but two weeks from now it could be $3.05 or $3.50 so how can I designate an amount for gasoline for the month?

    So for those of you who budget in this manner, what am I missing? How do you make a budget when most of your expenses are variable? Or do you just create a general outline of a budget and adjust categories as the month goes on - if gas prices drop, you shift more money to food. If food spending is down, you shift money somewhere else.
    Steve

    * Despite the high cost of living, it remains very popular.
    * Why should I pay for my daughter's education when she already knows everything?
    * There are no shortcuts to anywhere worth going.

  • #2
    Tagging to follow. I'm interested in the responses.

    Comment


    • #3
      I have taken 2 Ramsey courses, the first "financial peace university", and the second "the legacy journey". The questions you are asking are addressed in the FPU course. The second is on Giving, Wills, and Estate planning...basically how to plan your legacy.

      This thread reminds me alot of people who bash Jim Cramer. If you read Jim Cramers books, or read his paid subscrition advice you get a slightly different perpective than by just watching him on TV anwsering quick caller questions and entertaining people. Its the same with Ramsey. Do I follow him 100%, no. Have I saved a fortune in the long run taking his 2 course, Yes. just my .02 on the topic

      Anyway back to the questions.

      #1 The basic premis is that when you have inconsistant income you budget for a base take home salary and create a list on this side of items (in priority order) you wish to fund when your budget goes over base. Items on this list start with non mortgage debt (the snowball) if you have any, then goes to additional savings over base budget such as maxing out 401K, or educational accounts, if you have any of those that need additional funding, then goes on to wants/needs replacing an appliance thats going bad, vacation fund, etc.

      #2 Budget items start with a simple educated guess and each week/month that you track the expenses you learn what the actual cost is and adjust the budget accordingly. I took the FPU course with 6-7 other families at the time. That was interesting to see the variety of "food' budgets. My family of 6 was around $880 a month for all household supplies, food, school lunches for the kids, and restarants. There was a family of 4 in my class that were much lower income than my family and had alot of debt. Their total family food budget was $400 a month. Anyway my point is that its not what the number is thats important, it the part about knowing where each and every dollar is going that provides value.

      Alot of people say that they feel like they recieved a huge raise when they take the FPU because the average person spends quite a bit of money each month on things they dont even realize they bought. My wife and I were in this group so we learned quite a bit from budgeting (telling our money where to go as ramsey calls it)

      tomhole and DisneySteve, you are both like me in that you make alot more money that the median income. Do we have "have to" follow a plan like Ramseys? no....cause we have alot of extra income to help cover our mistakes. But, can you benifit above what you currently do by follow a plan like Ramseys? I would say for most people like us, Yes.
      Last edited by bigdaddybus; 12-04-2013, 06:21 AM.

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      • #4
        I think it is about setting a range and than actively trying to fit into that range once it is set.
        Like not buying that premium item you would normally buy, if you get close to that budget number and need to stay under it. (never worked for me, btw).
        I think it has a buffer too. Has to. There are just too many unpredictable elements in life.

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        • #5
          I don't do that at all, instead I have a rough idea of my discretionary spending, I know my fixed bills, and I have a buffer left over at the end of each month. Even though I don't track every penny, doesn't mean I don't keep track of spending -- I still do quite a bit, several times a month in fact.

          I think that method is great for someone who is living paycheck to paycheck, or someone who doesn't seem to have enough for life's basic necessities each month. It's an awesome starting point to really track spending. It's also really strict. I'd rather put my energy and focus on changing my spending habits for the better constantly, keeping as much in the bank as possible, and adhering to a fixed budget for most things.

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          • #6
            I think the point, that bigdaddybus mentions, is to be more conscious of your spending. Secondarily, if you set limits on your spending you generally will spend the same amount every month. (I've personally never spent less than our budget? But we cap our spending at a certain amount and make do. Thus, our grocery spending has been fairly consistent, on a monthly basis, for like an entire decade. If costs go up than we adjust our shopping habits).

            I don't follow Dave Ramsey specifically or anything. But, our monthly expenses are pretty fixed. Groceries we adjust. If gas prices rise we drive less. Most our other bills are pretty fixed. gas & electric can vary a bit but we have budget billing so it is the same amount every month. It does make it MUCH easier for budgeting purposes. All our other utilities are pretty consistent.

            Fixed amounts in our budget: mortgage, savings transfers, utilities, health insurance, and an amount that covers gas/groceries/misc. I am not picky on exactly how much we spend on each category. Gas we use more for misc - just have a large monthly amount for rising gas prices but I don't think we have ever changed our gas or grocery category. I think these days we just subconsciously drive a lot less due to gas prices. It hasn't been overly conscious except I did used to eat lunch at home most the time and haven't felt like I could realistically afford that splurge in a long time - so these are ways those totals have remained consistent even over a decade. My eldest goes to school a few miles away this year but I worked out a sweet carpool deal where we are not driving any more than usual.

            In addition, we take our annual non-monthly expenses and divide by 12 and so fund 1/12 of that every month. I haven't belabored the details but it is property taxes, all other insurances, vacation budget, average car repairs, dental expenses and misc. Misc. is $200/month - it covers absolutely everything else.

            We have a more long-term savings account for car replacements and home repairs. Which is where we would pull form if we had an unusually large car repair or anything like that.

            Of course, we don't have to sit down and write it all out every month because we already have a plan that works for each and every month. I tend to get a raise the first of every year and is when bills tend to rise (like health insurance) and so I just tweak every year. This year our health insurance went up $50, so we decreased our cell bill by $50. I am not expecting a raise, so we are set for next year's budget. That was all the tweaking we needed. Obviously our income is consistent. If not, I'd just go off the minimum income I'd expect any given month.
            Last edited by MonkeyMama; 12-04-2013, 07:15 AM.

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            • #7
              Another thing I forgot to mention is that I tend to make a lot of my variable bills into a fixed about -- for example, my electric (the only utility I pay) can go anywhere from $30/mo in the winter (we have shared heat) to $60/mo in the warmer months, so I set a fixed budget for around $75, or perhaps $50 in the winter months, and when I have extra, it's just extra money that can sit in my account. Budgeting for the 'worst case scenario' with my bills as a fixed amount and making sure it still balances has worked really well for me, and of course, I always tend to have money left over each month that I can reallocate to my debts or act as a buffer in my account.

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              • #8
                Thanks for the replies so far. Just to be clear, I was not criticizing the plan. I was just trying to understand how it works.

                For example, we just finished the college search process. Sometimes, I found out on Monday that we were doing a college visit on Saturday that would involve travel, a hotel stay, dining out, etc. I wouldn't have known that on the first of the month so it wouldn't have been part of the budget. It isn't a problem since we don't live paycheck to paycheck so we could easily cover those costs without having to cut back somewhere else, but if we were strictly following a budget, that money would need to come out of another category, right?
                Steve

                * Despite the high cost of living, it remains very popular.
                * Why should I pay for my daughter's education when she already knows everything?
                * There are no shortcuts to anywhere worth going.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by bigdaddybus View Post
                  This thread reminds me alot of people who bash Jim Cramer. If you read Jim Cramers books, or read his paid subscrition advice you get a slightly different perpective than by just watching him on TV anwsering quick caller questions and entertaining people. Its the same with Ramsey. Do I follow him 100%, no. Have I saved a fortune in the long run taking his 2 course, Yes. just my .02 on the topic
                  He merely asked a polite question. I fail to see how that equates to "bashing".

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    I really like the zero-based budget approach. I handle variable expenses by setting a reasonable estimate with some wiggle room, then try not to go over. If I consistently fail to stay under budget, then I know my estimate is just not realistic and I will have to raise it and cut something else. Everyone is different, but the processes involved in following this method is what really cemented for me the importance of watching each spending category. Your money is a pie, and if one piece is too big, some other piece is going to have to be too skimpy.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Petunia 100 View Post
                      He merely asked a polite question. I fail to see how that equates to "bashing".
                      Just a trend I see on this site, not from DS specifically. Sorry, I don't feed trolls if your looking for more than that.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Petunia 100 View Post
                        I really like the zero-based budget approach. I handle variable expenses by setting a reasonable estimate with some wiggle room, then try not to go over. If I consistently fail to stay under budget, then I know my estimate is just not realistic and I will have to raise it and cut something else. Everyone is different, but the processes involved in following this method is what really cemented for me the importance of watching each spending category. Your money is a pie, and if one piece is too big, some other piece is going to have to be too skimpy.
                        This is true. All the money has to go somewhere so really everyone has a zero-based budget whether they write it down or not. If we take a costly trip this month (we leave for San Diego on Tuesday ), then less might go into savings for the month. If we go out to dinner for DW's birthday, that money is gone so it can't be used for some other purpose. I just don't always know from month to month, or even week to week, what the outlier expenses are going to be.
                        Steve

                        * Despite the high cost of living, it remains very popular.
                        * Why should I pay for my daughter's education when she already knows everything?
                        * There are no shortcuts to anywhere worth going.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by bigdaddybus View Post
                          Just a trend I see on this site, not from DS specifically.
                          Thanks for clarifying that. I didn't think I had said anything that constituted bashing Dave Ramsey. On the contrary, if you read my posts, I often recommend his plan to folks in need of help. I listen to his podcast daily. Since I don't do a budget, the whole budget thing is always something I didn't fully grasp.
                          Steve

                          * Despite the high cost of living, it remains very popular.
                          * Why should I pay for my daughter's education when she already knows everything?
                          * There are no shortcuts to anywhere worth going.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            I've definitely benefited from budgeting and while I don't follow Dave Ramsey 100%, what I do works for me.

                            I'm paid salary plus overtime and work side jobs, so my income varies. Even when you're paid hourly, if you're working 40 hours a week, you know about what you're making, so you can start with that.

                            I list all monthly expenses. And I mean every single category that I will spend money on. Roughly 33% of my guaranteed income goes into savings, so I list savings as an expense in my budget. The variable expenses get a dollar amount based on previous months. I keep mine slightly over what I think I'm going to spend in those categories, so I'm rarely going over. When I spend in a specific category, I update the dollar amount I've spent and excel calculates what I have remaining. On the other side of the page I list all income to the exact dollar amount and update it as it comes in for that month. In the end, I always have some money left that goes into savings because I only budget for my guaranteed income. Some people roll the left over into the next month, but I like putting it into savings right away so that I don't get myself into the habit of spending more in a certain category than I really need to.

                            For me, tracking every expense is what helped me maximize the money I save. It did take me a couple of months to really fine tune everything and tracking every expense was a big part of that.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by bigdaddybus View Post
                              Just a trend I see on this site, not from DS specifically. Sorry, I don't feed trolls if your looking for more than that.
                              Um, I'm not a troll.

                              Comment

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