Should US wealth be redistributed?

[cercis]

Re: Should US wealth be redistributed?

It comes down to which do you believe in more - community or self? Do you believe your investments and personal wellbeing are more important than the community's as a whole (especially if your well being won't suffer drastically)?

[VJW]

Re: Should US wealth be redistributed?

Jesse,

which might be a comparably worse investment. For example, I think Steve Jobs is one of the highest compensated executives in the US - and look at the stock price since he took the helm.

That’s a rather isolated example. In the aggregate, there is no correlation between CEO pay and stock performance.

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[VJW]

Re: Should US wealth be redistributed?

BTW:

TAX CUTS FOR THE RICH & CORPORATE IN ONE EASY LESSON


CHART: FEDERAL REVENUES


It’s not exactly straight down, but it’s a cliff I would not want to fall over. The drop in federal revenues (minus Social Security) after four rounds of tax cuts for the Rich & Corporate, from early 2001 through last year is nothing short of horrific (after 2004 is a projection).

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[jmjj215]

Re: Should US wealth be redistributed?

Jesse,



That’s a rather isolated example. In the aggregate, there is no correlation between CEO pay and stock performance.

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That's what I was trying to say by pointing out that example.

[jmjj215]

Re: Should US wealth be redistributed?

VJW,
Did you read the article in the prior issue of Fortune (The one with the dog on the cover) about the new Fed Chairman and "Our" economy? I was wondering what you thought about it. Some of the content seemed like you had written it - other parts certainly did not.

[cercis]

Re: Should US wealth be redistributed?

So you were trying to say that a person selling and buying stock has no effect on CEO pay?

That was my point. That's our only option as citizens. We can buy or sell the stock of companies we support/don't support. Which does nothing.

There needs to be a way for us to have a say about companies dropping jobs and wages of average workers while increasing pay and bonuses for CEOs.

[VJW]

Re: Should US wealth be redistributed?

That's what I was trying to say by pointing out that example.

You were ?

Now I’m confused, as Apple stock is up since Jobs became CEO, I thought you were providing that as that kind of example.

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[jmjj215]

Re: Should US wealth be redistributed?

cercis said:

and only buy stock in companies that have the right idea in regard to pay structure

So I said:

which might be a comparably worse investment. For example, I think Steve Jobs is one of the highest compensated executives in the US - and look at the stock price since he took the helm.

I was saying it would be sub-par investment strategy to only invest in companies with appropriate pay structures by pointing out Apples "inappropriate" pay structure and huge returns.

You said the same thing another way - it would be a lousy investment strategy to invest only in companies with inappropriate pay structures because there's no correlation.

Basing your strategy on appropriately or inappropriately compensated CEOs' companies wouldn't be a good way to invest because of the lack of correlation.

[cercis]

Re: Should US wealth be redistributed?

Jim, it wasn't about investing to make money. It was about investing to show your support and make a difference.

Companies claim that they have to pay their CEOs so much or their stock market performance declines. So, the fix to that is to make their market decline and other companies' stocks pick up.

It won't do much, at all, but it's our only option. It's all we are left with.

[jmjj215]

Re: Should US wealth be redistributed?

Jim, it wasn't about investing to make money. It was about investing to show your support and make a difference.

Companies claim that they have to pay their CEOs so much or their stock market performance declines. So, the fix to that is to make their market decline and other companies' stocks pick up.

It won't do much, at all, but it's our only option. It's all we are left with.

I see Cercis. Hopefully those companies that are responsibly compensating their execs also know how to turn a profit for their shareholders - then you'd have the best of both worlds.

[brandondrury]

Re: Should US wealth be redistributed?

I grew up in a lower middle class home that was very cold in the winter and very hot in the summer. Growing up, friends didn't want to come over because we usually didn't have enough food for everyone. Big deal. Get over it. I'm lucky to have had the childhood that I had.

With that said, if you want to improve your situation, the situation is simple. Work harder, smarter, and work longer. Even people of average intelligence can overcome adversity if they work harder, smarter, and longer than everyone else.

CEOs will never be paid too much at least not for very long. Everyone makes what they are worth. If you are overpaid, you will be fired or demoted. If you are underpaid, you will move up. It's the way the free enterprise system works. If CEOs are paid what you consider to be too much, it just shows that there are even less people capable being a CEO. If everyone on the planet could be a CEO, it would pay minimum wage.



Society does not want a redistribution of wealth. Society want pretty lights and tall buildings. In my hometown of 35,000 people we have a brand new bridge that the city spends thousands to cover in pretty lights. We have a new governement building that's costing $40 million which is an amazing monstrosity of waste. We have a brand new school that was overcrowded the first year that costed $23 million. We have some brick concoction in the middle of a street that costed $1 million. If you look around, you'll find a number of $5 million dollar churches. Churches spend $50,000 or more on their sound systems. We have a no profit hospital that has just added a $20 million weight room while a brand new Holiday Inn costed only $6 million. All this relates back to the middle class obsession with aesthetics. People want tall bulidings and shiny lights. The government gives society exactly what it wants because it wants to be re-elected. This is fundamental flaw of democracy.

Not to make this a relgious debate, but if those that take the most pride in their morality would rather have a tall, extravegant building and great audio quality than make sure a pregnant woman is eating properly, what can you expect from those who don't put as much pride in their morality?

Lastly, watch the Discovery Channel once in a while. Those pretty lions and tigers (that a lot of people consider to be cute) eat by running 40 mph and literally tearing the throat out of it's prey. This is the real world. It's sometimes sad and sometimes cruel. If you try to take out all the cruelty from the world by punishing those who turn the wheels of society, the whole thing falls apart. Only a gifted few are willing to make the sacrifices it takes to make this country work as well as it does.

Brandon

[jmjj215]

Re: Should US wealth be redistributed?

Hmm...it's too late to respond.

[cercis]

Re: Should US wealth be redistributed?

Too late in the thread or too late at night?

It is late at night and I think I'm getting DH's flu. I might need to drop out before I start really not making sense.

[VJW]

Re: Should US wealth be redistributed?

With that said, if you want to improve your situation, the situation is simple. Work harder, smarter, and work longer.

Unfortunately, “Work harder, smarter, and work longer” has very little to do with it.

CEOs will never be paid too much at least not for very long.

They already are.

Everyone makes what they are worth.

No they don’t.

If you are overpaid, you will be fired or demoted.

Not if you’re in management.

If you are underpaid, you will move up.

Not necessarily.

It's the way the free enterprise system works.

Not it’s not.

BTW, we don’t have a “free enterprise system” in America.

If CEOs are paid what you consider to be too much, it just shows that there are even less people capable being a CEO.

That's ridiculous.

If everyone on the planet could be a CEO, it would pay minimum wage.

And the price of eggs in Singapore is $1.99.

Society does not want a redistribution of wealth.

Of course they do. They have quite explicitly expressed a desire to re-redistribute the wealth.

Not to make this a relgious debate, but if those that take the most pride in their morality would rather have a tall, extravegant building and great audio quality than make sure a pregnant woman is eating properly, what can you expect from those who don't put as much pride in their morality?

WHAT ?

If you try to take out all the cruelty from the world by punishing those who turn the wheels of society, the whole thing falls apart.

Ah, I was waiting for that canard to make it’s appearance. How is it that the Rich & Corporate are punished by not paying their fair share of the tax burden ?

Only a gifted few are willing to make the sacrifices it takes to make this country work as well as it does.

Too bad we don’t presently have any of them at the top of our government.

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[jmjj215]

Re: Should US wealth be redistributed?

I'm meant too late at night. Never too late for VJW.