Should US wealth be redistributed?

[Bruce Wayne]

Re: Should US wealth be redistributed?

VJW, you seem to have ignored my point about the jobs created by Microsoft. How much tax do you think Microsoft has created both in the tax on their profits plus the income tax on all their employees?

[PRICEPLUS]

Re: Should US wealth be redistributed?

Sweepsplayer,

My taxes over the years provide redistribution enough. The rent my parents paid was not subsidized very much. As I remember it was comparable to what people were paying in flats in the adjacent area.

I pay into Social Security and Medicare. Heaven knows I pay a lot of money in income tax. I also pay local school and property taxes. Then of course there is the sales tax. Then of course there are the fees, licenses, registrations, and insurances I am required by law to pay for. I work into the middle of June before I start working for myself. How much more redistribution of my money would be appropriate?

I took a job after school as did all nine of my brothers and sisters. My siblings and I went to a parochial school. All chipped in to help. We never took a handout and I remember being hungry at times. I wore hand me downs as a matter of course. When Ronald Reagan cut my college aid(loans) I did what was necessary. I went part time and finished two years later than originally planned. I did not complain or get angry. I just set my nose to the grindstone and worked like a dog.

I worked very hard for what little I have. I never took from others and I never asked others for help.

I do believe in helping others who cannot help themselves and I would give more of my money for that purpose. I vehemently oppose redistributing to others through confiscatory taxation though.

I suppose we all have different views on this issue. I don't wish to seem confrontational. I just want to keep as much of what "I" earned as possible.


VJW,

I never said anone in particular was advocating Socialsm. I was opining that it really is not the best economic engine for creating wealth and keeping it.

Just out of curiousity. Where was wealth redistributed in the early 90's?

[sweeps]

Re: Should US wealth be redistributed?

Fair enough. Just to clarify my position though... I'm not advocating more redistribution. I'm simply pointing out that wealth/income redistribution is always occurring, and that a certain amount of ongoing redistribution is a societal necessity.

I think some people envision wealth redistribution as meaning everyone puts all their money in a pot and it's divided evenly between everyone. Redistribution doesn't have to be that extreme.

[jmjj215]

Re: Should US wealth be redistributed?

I just set my nose to the grindstone and worked like a dog.

The dying American Way.

[VJW]

Re: Should US wealth be redistributed?

Jesse,

Well, according to King County public records, as of the 2005 tax assessment, the total assessed value of Bill Gates 5-acre spread in Medina is $125 million, and the annual property-tax bill was $989,726.

Unbelievably, he is now paying EVEN LESS, as a percentage, than he was in 1998. I wonder how many people in Washington state actually had their property taxes go DOWN over the last seven years ?

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[VJW]

Re: Should US wealth be redistributed?

VJW, you seem to have ignored my point about the jobs created by Microsoft. How much tax do you think Microsoft has created both in the tax on their profits plus the income tax on all their employees?

Haven’t the foggiest, but I imagine if I had over $100 billion in capital, it would be easy as pie to create far more jobs and resulting revenue.

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[VJW]

Re: Should US wealth be redistributed?

VJW,

I never said anone in particular was advocating Socialsm.

Hence my comment, as I had trouble with what the state ownership of industry and/or capital had to do with RE-redistribution of wealth in America.

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[Bruce Wayne]

Re: Should US wealth be redistributed?

Haven’t the foggiest, but I imagine if I had over $100 billion in capital, it would be easy as pie to create far more jobs and resulting revenue.

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They're 30 years old this year, if you assume an average profit per year of a conservative $500m then they would have contributed many billions in taxes over their lifetime.

More importantly though they employ over 60,000 people throughout the world. If you assume each of these earns $40,000 then they'd pay around $500m in taxes per year as well, not to mention the welfare saved by employing these people and the value they add to society.

Add in all the other companies that rely on Microsoft, servicing their software, selling complimentory products etc. you can probably add several billion extra to that per year.

All of this was created from scratch. I'm no fan of Microsoft but you can't but admire the benfit they have given to society around the world. To suggest that any government could create such value is laughable

[Bruce Wayne]

Re: Should US wealth be redistributed?

Getting back on topic a bit. It was reported today that public sector pay in Britain is growing at twice the rate of private sector pay. Public sector workers also receive luxurious pensions based on their final salary and this alone is set to cost the taxpayer £700 billion over the next 10 years. That's 1/10 of the total government expenditure for any for that period, just on pensions!

The British government are trying hard to redistribute wealth by a) taxing people more than double the tax bill from six years ago, and b) employing more and more people in state sector jobs that have the benefit of manipulating un-employment figures and allows them to pay an awful lot of people a lot more than they would be valued at in the private sector.

It seems inevitable that this largesh by the British government will result in the economy here collapsing soon as the wealth creating sector cannot continue funding this indefinately as the high taxes are strangling the life out of our economy.

Let us be a warning to any Americans wishing to follow us down this route of taxing more and more for less and less services.

[VJW]

Re: Should US wealth be redistributed?

Hell, I could do it easy.

Just do the math. Less than 40,000 employees in America. One hundred billion dollars, to be conservative. That’s about $2.5 million per employee.

No sweat. I could hand out $100,000 to random people across the country, with the provision that they start a small business, and even if lots of them failed, it would still create FAR MORE jobs and tax revenue than Microsoft.

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[Bruce Wayne]

Re: Should US wealth be redistributed?

Hell, I could do it easy.

Just do the math. Less than 40,000 employees in America. One hundred billion dollars, to be conservative. That’s about $2.5 million per employee.

No sweat. I could hand out $100,000 to random people across the country, with the provision that they start a small business, and even if lots of them failed, it would still create FAR MORE jobs and tax revenue than Microsoft.

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What are you on about? Microsoft started from nothing. No employees, no revenue. Nothing. All the value and jobs they've created and have been through their hard work.

It's easy to say "if I had $x billion then I could do a great job with it" and lets face it, that's what governments around the world already do. What none of them do is actually create that money in the first place, they just take it. That's the big difference.

I wonder if you could create something as valuable as a Microsoft?

[VJW]

Re: Should US wealth be redistributed?

What are you on about?

Reversing the horrendous concentration of wealth.

Microsoft started from nothing. No employees, no revenue. Nothing.

Actually, Microsoft arose thanks to the generosity and connections of his affluent parents.

It's easy to say "if I had $x billion then I could do a great job with it"

Because it's so laughably true, to use your phrase. Quite obviously that amount of capital could be used far more efficiently with dramatically better results.

I wonder if you could create something as valuable as a Microsoft?

If I had all the advantages and that Gates had, you never know.

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[jmjj215]

Re: Should US wealth be redistributed?

Jesse,

Well, according to King County public records, as of the 2005 tax assessment, the total assessed value of Bill Gates 5-acre spread in Medina is $125 million, and the annual property-tax bill was $989,726.

Unbelievably, he is now paying EVEN LESS, as a percentage, than he was in 1998. I wonder how many people in Washington state actually had their property taxes go DOWN over the last seven years ?

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We already established that he's paying less - but I want to know HOW he's doing it. How the heck can you game the property tax system? Did the county cut him a break or something, to entice him to build there? If so, shame on the city officials, not on Gates.

[VJW]

Re: Should US wealth be redistributed?

I’m less concerned as to how they’re doing it and more concerned with the fact that it is all too common with the wealthy.

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[Bruce Wayne]

Re: Should US wealth be redistributed?

Reversing the horrendous concentration of wealth.

In a free market system wealth is given to those that provide the most value to society, thus encouraging people to purchase their goods or services. What better concentration is there than that?

Actually, Microsoft arose thanks to the generosity and connections of his affluent parents.

Unless you're suggesting that his family have been buying all of their software to the tune of several billion a year then this is utter twaddle. Bill Gates may have had a wealthy family before he founded Microsoft, I don't know and frankly don't care. MS got big because a lot of companies used their software. You can easily use examples such as Richard Branson who come from poor backgrounds and have formed hugely successful companies.

Because it's so laughably true, to use your phrase. Quite obviously that amount of capital could be used far more efficiently with dramatically better results.

You're beginning to lose credibility with this statement because its incredibly Marxist even though he has long since been discredited. Free markets work so well because information isn't held in a central vault in Washington or London. It's distributed amongst each and every one of us, each of us knowing how best to use that information to further our lives. Only the free market offers parallels with this situation because only the free market allows us to use this information however we wish. Suggesting you can control the lives of millions of people by telling them what to do and how much money they can have is either incredibly naive or incredibly arrogant.

If I had all the advantages and that Gates had, you never know.#

Once again, I could give you examples such as Richard Branson, Tom Hunter and many more that have become successful with none of your advantages. Sounds like an excuse to me