Should US wealth be redistributed?

[VJW]

Re: Should US wealth be redistributed?

Something besides the wealthiest 400 in America

Ah, I see.

You think that the phenomenon is limited to the 400 richest people in the country ? It is not. The percentages would be similar if it were the top 1000, top 5000, top 50,000 and so on. It is representative of the wealthy in America in general.

I think I remember you writing off Stanley's Millionaire Next Door as a source that isn't usable?

Exactly. It is a contrivance.

• Only 19 percent receive any income or wealth of any kind from a trust fund or an estate.
• Fewer than 20 percent inherited 10 percent of more of their wealth.
• More than half never received $1 in in inheritance.
• Fewer than 25 percent ever received "an act of kindness" of $10,000 or more from their parents, grandparents, or other relatives.
• Ninety-one percent never received, as a gift, as much as $1 of the ownership in a family business.
• Nearly half never received any college tuition from their parents or other relatives.
• Fewer than 10 percent believe they will ever receive an inheritance in the future.

None of which is substantiated or can be substantiated, and is contradicted by real world data. Remember, this was based upon a self-selected SURVEY, not on real data. They arrived at the conclusions they already held.

With the Forbes 400, sure I'll bite. But with these self-made millionaires, it appears that other factors played a large role.

As much as so many people wish that it were so, it's just not the case.

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[VJW]

Re: Should US wealth be redistributed?

What percentages?

As mentioned elsewhere, the study of the Forbes 400 list that showed that 86% either directly inherited their wealth or greatly benefited from their families great wealth.

You never stated your motivation or goals, but it appears that jmjj215 and myself have stated that our goals are significantly less than making the Forbes 400 list and that is why we think our goals are obtainable.

You’re personalizing this, whereas I was merely being realistic.

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[VJW]

Re: Should US wealth be redistributed?

I wonder if the re-distribution crowd...

Just for the record, I’ve never advocated any “re-distribution”, therefore I am not part of any “crowd”.

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[VJW]

Re: Should US wealth be redistributed?

Less government support in terms of food stamps, unemployment, etc. would provide more of an incentive to work harder.

Tell that to the corporations receiving Corporate Welfare.

Why is it fair to make the highest earners pay 30% of their income?

It's not "fair". If it were fair, they would be paying much more.

I'm all for a flat tax based on consumption.

Totally unworkable. See post #6 in this thread:

Tax revenues surging...

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[VJW]

Re: Should US wealth be redistributed?

Of course the tax rate probably wouldn't have to be 30% if we were going to reduce/eliminate many government programs.

I’d be interested as to just HOW you would get there by cutting spending, as close to two-thirds of the federal budget is comprised of the Military Industrial Complex and interest on the Reagan/Bush/Bush federal debt.

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[VJW]

Re: Should US wealth be redistributed?

Look at the end result of the governement programs that redistribute wealth. Is there less poverty in America because these programs are in place

Yes.

Just as one example, after the “Great Society” programs were implemented, African-American Poverty was cut in half.

or did they modify the behavior of more Americans to rely on someone besides themselves for their financial well being, causing more Americans to be poor?

No.

Again, Corporate Welfare hasn't caused Corporate America to be poor and Tax Cuts for the Rich hasn't caused the wealthy to be poor.

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[VJW]

Re: Should US wealth be redistributed?

I'm saying wealth redistribution is not the way to solve the problem of poverty. It's a short term solution that reinforces the behaviors that generate poverty.

Seems to work very well for the Rich & Corporate.

I agree with jimjj215, education is the key for a long term solution.

But the wealthy do not want to invest the money it would take, not to mention the racism involved.

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[VJW]

Re: Should US wealth be redistributed?

Where in tar-nation is VJW?! I thought he would've come in here pistols a' blazin' by now.

Jesse,

I told you before that an open project always takes priority.

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[jmjj215]

Re: Should US wealth be redistributed?

You think that the phenomenon is limited to the 400 richest people in the country ? It is not. The percentages would be similar if it were the top 1000, top 5000, top 50,000 and so on.

Please back that up.

Jesse,

I told you before that an open project always takes priority.

I had figured as much.

[retire@50]

Re: Should US wealth be redistributed?

Just for the record, I’ve never advocated any “re-distribution”, therefore I am not part of any “crowd”.

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So what are you advocating? It's difficult to tell since you mostly seem to reply with random facts and figures. How do you think the problem of poverty should be resolved?

[VJW]

Re: Should US wealth be redistributed?

Jesse,

Please back that up.

Well, that involves Census data and IRS data and Labor Department data and Bureau of Labor Statistics data and Congressional Budget Office data and data from the ‘Green Book’ from the House Ways & Means Committee, and more, plus research and calculations. So I can’t simply link you to a single page.

However, I can provide you with a couple of corroborating signposts.

* First, there is the recent whitepaper done by Bhashkar Mazumder, an economist at the Federal Reserve Bank of Chicago. The paper reveals that income mobility between generations has been falling since the radical change in our tax system in the early 1980s, whereas in prior decades to that it had been rising. Now, most children of rich parents stay rich, and most children of the poor stay poor. This is in stark contrast to nations such as Canada, Finland, France, and Germany, as well as to our own nation’s history prior to the shift to failed RightWing economics in 1981.

EARNINGS MOBILITY IN THE U.S. (PDF)



* Second, there’s this report:

THE ‘SELF-MADE’ MYTH (PDF)

The more than 2,200 millionaires (updated from the listed 1,700 in 2004) listed, insist that they prospered in large part thanks to things beyond their individual control, such as social investments in education, research, technology and infrastructure

Pro-business economic policies and tax policies favoring the wealthy are often centered on the myth of the “self-made” man, the report says. But it turns out that the myth of "self-made" wealth is potentially destructive to the very infrastructure that actually enables wealth creation.

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[VJW]

Re: Should US wealth be redistributed?

So what are you advocating?

Well, if you had bothered to read my very first post in this thread, you would know exactly what I am “advocating” (see post #10).

It's difficult to tell since you mostly seem to reply with random facts and figures.

What’s “random” about them ?

How do you think the problem of poverty should be resolved?

In the same manner in which it has been successfully advanced in the past.

I addressed that in this thread (from post #22 onward):

Minimum wage, good or bad?

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[retire@50]

Re: Should US wealth be redistributed?

Well, if you had bothered to read my very first post in this thread, you would know exactly what I am “advocating” (see post #10).

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I had read all the posts at one time, however I don't remember everything everyone has posted. I did go back and read your post and you state that are you are for Re-redistribution of wealth. So you believe that money should be taken from people you consider to be rich and given to people you consider to be poor?

Do I have your position right?

[VJW]

Re: Should US wealth be redistributed?

No.

As I posted, there has been a redistribution of wealth in America since the early 1980s, from the Middle-class and Working Poor up to the wealthy, and I believe that should be undone.

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[brandondrury]

Re: Should US wealth be redistributed?

Why would poor people give their money to the rich?

There is only one time when I give my money to the rich....when they have something that I want. It may be a service or it may be a product. In the end, if I pay $10 for something, it's because someone has given me $10 worth of value.

If more poor people created more value, than you would get your redistribution of wealth.

The "poor people" I know watch a lot of TV. The rich people I know work a lot.

Brandon