Husband Won't Work

[Seeker]

Seeker - I really liked your comments.

Actually, having been raised by a stay-at-home parent and married to a stay-at-home parent, I think the issue could be less that he isn't working and more of a communication problem. I have had too many friends over the years compeltely disrespect and misunderstand what it is like to be the spouse at home - and how much work it can be. When my ex divorced he told me his wife was a lazy slob who did nothing at home (but raise a baby). I felt sorry for her and glad I hadn't married him! As such, it's impossible to know exactly what this situation is, but sounds like the typical festering resentment withouth much communication. Likewise, getting a job after not working for a decade, is not near as easy as it sounds. In this economy? At his age? (Is he 60?) Probably futile.

As such, I don't see it as so black and white. I agree with counseling advice, etc.

All that said, if your mom wants out, she is being very short-sighted. She doesn't want to give up half, so she wants to stay and continue to give up her half to her husband. If she was really unhappy with that, she should leave and keep 100% for herself in the future. If she rather be miserable, then that is her choice.

LOL -- I probably should keep my silence. I see things a bit differently from most people most of the time.

But yes in a way your last paragraph is also true. Life is just really one big circle.

I think she's "unhappy" because of the communication issue. The two of them really should just sit down together and talk it out WITHOUT that 19 YO anywhere near by.

But yes, he's 60 at this point in time. She's a decade or so younger. Whatever they decide needs to be best for the two of them -- if they separate, probably both will lose in the end.

[cschin4]

There isn't any answer that is going to give her everything she wants. She is going to have to decide to either settle in and understand this is the way things are and then plan accordingly which may mean downsizing her home and lifestyle to continue supporting him.
Or, they should try counseling. He may have issues with depression, anger, etc and if he could work those out maybe he has a lot of anxiety about starting a job at his age and so forth. But, sounds like he has a history of being minimally employed.
The other choice is to leave. And, yes, she is going to have to divide the assets. That is life. Money comes and goes. Either let it go and move with life and find some happiness or not. Staying to save money and being miserable, what will that accomplish? As for being lonely, she already is lonely anyway.

[Scanner]

Mmmmm...I am not sure that mowing the lawn and doing some pool cleaning qualifies as "work", although I often think women understate a man's contribution to the household and women overstate theirs.

Evidence of this to me is watch how quickly a property falls into disrepair when a woman is widowed. You can often pick them out in your neighborhood.

I make this opinion as a male so that's my bias.

I mean, mowing the lawn takes what? 3 hours? Cleaning the pool? 30 minutes/day? We are talking 10 hours of effort a week that people WITH jobs and kids do.

I don't know. . .I just think as a scciety something has to change. . .I don't think the male mind, psyche, and body is meant to retire at 50 years old and then just live a life of leisure. The fact he says he's "ready to die" just supports my hypothesis I see all the time with my male patients.

You have to keep males working.

And every male should prepare for the day they move him to the back of the bus a bit and you aren't making your peak earnings. That is, okay, you are a teacher, you max out at 75K/year, they retire you, you go work in Radio Shack or selling hotdogs at the baseball park or something. That's okay.

The worst is to just sit around and wait to die.

[Joan.of.the.Arch]

Well, I must say the thing about dying sure makes me wonder if the guy is depressed.

And what a time in our nation's economic life to be an older person with a ten year gap in work history trying to get a job! He probably feels it is unlikely he can find a job of his previous status. And even though he has not had income for ten years, he might well feel internally pressured to get a job equal to his last one in order to not feel like a failure, even as he thinks it is nearly impossible to do so. Perhaps that seems ironic, given that he is not bringing in any income. But I think a lot of people feel that way after a long time out from the paid workforce.

BTW, I do think it is true that it is harder for a 60 year old to find work. Much more so for a 60 year old with no work history in the last ten years. Doesn't mean it is impossible. Maybe he can at least drive a taxi, work at 7-11, cut lawns, hire on to a landscaping crew, etc.

You are making it sound as though your mother's previous income of $120-150K was barely enough to get by in that $300K house. Well, this is a money oriented forum, so thinking about money issues, I wonder about that. Seems like that should have been enough income to budget the regular home repairs and maintenance all along. Is there a spending problem in this family? Is the family now so in debt that they resent the stay at home parent and want him to change gears so that they can continue spending? Perhaps he too is part of an over spending problem. I mean, I know golf can be expensive. But really, not much financial info is given here, so who knows what to say.

For most people, if they are in over their heads with their housing, the answer is to sell and move to a less expensive place, perhaps to rent. OH, and cars. In a household with one income it certainly makes sense to try and get by with only one car, especially if one is h aving trouble making ends meet. There are probably lots of ways to cut back...Certainly, personal conflicts and bad marriages can impact family finances, but there might be more than way way out of the financial cauldron here. If you cut expenses you cut the need for additional income, right?

Original poster, as an adult, are you living in the household with your parents? If so, are you contributing to the finances?

I do agree, though, that it sounds like everybody in this family could benefit from some counseling.

[khosta]

Wow! This is not a fun family situation... I mean your dad is 60 - there's no way he'll find a legit job now... Maybe a part time job but he definately won't make it back into the coorperate world. I can understand your mom's stress - she needs to go to counseling with or without your dad - a light may click and she might find the answers she's looking for. Sorry you're going through this.
Good Luck!

[okstate]

Wow, I never meant to come off as entitled or ungrateful. Anyways thanks for the replies, I really appreciate it. I'll try to answer some of the longer ones as best as I can in a minute.

[okstate]

Nevermind

[okstate]

Technically your father retired in the Summer of '02 at 50 years of age. Did your mother agree to early retirement? Did she have a vote? What did your father do for a living to contribute?

No, she didn't agree to his early retirement. She told me that she assumed he would look for another job after leaving the first. I'm not sure she ever really talked to him about it, just thought he would get another one. I'll ask her what he did, I think something like collections?

What may I ask are you doing to help this situation instead of contribute to the gulf between your folks? Have you been looking for a job? Do you go to college?

I don't see how I'm contributing to it, I'm trying to find ways to help them. I'm a full-time college student. I go to class about 3 or 4 hours a day Monday-Thursday, and one hour on Friday. After that, I come home and study for a few hours. I definitely agree with you that a job would be beneficial for me, but I'm afraid I won't have enough time to devote to studying for my classes. I'll absolutely get a summer job in May after college is over.

If you paid attention to your priorities, might you be happier?

Yes, but they are my parents and I love them. They're my family, and if I can help them resolve this in anyway, obviously I'm going to try to do that. So if a close friend or family member of yours needed and wanted help like my mother does, you would just ignore them and "pay attention to your own priorities"?

"Occasionally" means what exactly?

Further below, you state that "and yet he can climb a ladder and trim the 30 foot trees for an hour, cleans out the pool every few hours, mows the front and back lawn, puts TONS of Christmas lights on the house every year, plays golf, and goes on 4 mile hikes with me when we go to national parks"

Some days he does nothing around the house and just sits and watches TV for most of the day. But right now, he's outside doing some yard work. It would be better if he did this more often, but it happens maybe 2-3 times a week for an hour or two at most.

Has she ever suggested that he go back to work? Do you think it is easy for someone to get a job after 10 years out of the workforce? Do you think it would be easy for a 60 YO to find and get work?

I wasn't there for the conversation, but she told me that she told him to try to get a job, and he said that he honestly feels he will die soon. No, I do not think it would be easy, I think it would be very difficult. All I know is that he seems unhappy being here all of the time. He leaves his email open all day, in case one of his out of state friends email him. And I mean checks it all day, and he'll maybe get one email. If he is that desperate for human contact outside of his family, wouldn't he be happier at least getting maybe a part-time job, and just having something to occupy his time, and get him out of the house for a few hours a day?

I'm sorry but 100k to 130k (20k reduction accounted for) should still be a rather large net income in order to provide for a 30-year old house that only costed 300k to begin with.

I wasn't saying it was difficult for her to pay the mortgage for the 300k house. I was saying that my parents intentionally bought a house that cost about 1.5 times their combined income, so that they could pay off their mortgage much more quickly than if they bought a more expensive house. My mother would like to stay in this house into retirement, and I'm not really sure they can do that now without him working.

Well. You're 19 and they both deal with you. Why are you turning on them?

How am I turning on them? If I didn't care, I wouldn't have posted this on here. I'm looking for ways to help them. I know I probably came across as very bitter, but that's because I see the toll it's taken on my mother, because she is the sole provider. The 20,000 dollar pay cut was actually her company taking away overtime. When she worked overtime, she would often work until 3,4,5 am. My dad would often make light of how hard she was working and even make fun or her or be mean to her, while he got his 9 hours of sleep. I'm just very resentful because she has worked so extremely hard for 10 years, for 10 hours a day, while he doesn't do half of that.

Your mother makes her own choices. Your father as well. And you too. So when do you plan to make your escape?

Do you mean when will I leave home? I talked to my mother about that and she said she doesn't even want me to leave home until I graduate college. That's definitely not going to happen. But I don't know when I'll leave, probably the next year or two. My mother doesn't want me to leave because then she is living with only my dad, and he'll sometimes ignore her for days for something minor and insignificant thing she did that upset him.

I have no answers for people who enable one another. She and he have been married 26 years and both have their perceived "needs" and both have their perceived "wants."

I definitely agree with you on that one. My mother knows it's a problem but isn't willing to do anything about it. He is often very very mean and abusive if you say something to him he doesn't like or doesn't agree with. So she pretty much just forgets about it, and doesn't bring up the job thing again. How is that a healthy marriage if they can't even talk to each other? But you're right, she enables him and just ignores the problems.

Your father does not need nor want a "social" nor a "working" life. Your mother does need and want those things and thus she ends up working for them.

The only answer I have is for you.

Each and every person makes their own choices. You do as well.

Rather than try to change things for your view of the better, you should change yourself. That's all you have control over, you, yourself. That's all you can change.

Same with your Mom.

And the very same with your Dad.

[okstate]

Seeker - I really liked your comments.

Actually, having been raised by a stay-at-home parent and married to a stay-at-home parent, I think the issue could be less that he isn't working and more of a communication problem. I have had too many friends over the years compeltely disrespect and misunderstand what it is like to be the spouse at home - and how much work it can be. When my ex divorced he told me his wife was a lazy slob who did nothing at home (but raise a baby). I felt sorry for her and glad I hadn't married him! As such, it's impossible to know exactly what this situation is, but sounds like the typical festering resentment withouth much communication. Likewise, getting a job after not working for a decade, is not near as easy as it sounds. In this economy? At his age? (Is he 60?) Probably futile.

As such, I don't see it as so black and white. I agree with counseling advice, etc.

All that said, if your mom wants out, she is being very short-sighted. She doesn't want to give up half, so she wants to stay and continue to give up her half to her husband. If she was really unhappy with that, she should leave and keep 100% for herself in the future. If she rather be miserable, then that is her choice.

Thanks for your reply... The reason she would want to leave him is not because he won't work. It's because 90% of the time he is extremely mean. He can fly off the handle for an innocent thing that was said. We never know what will set him off. We have to walk on eggshells sometimes because we don't know how he will react to something. He has hit me before. Just a few days ago we got in an argument and he chased me into the garage and said things like "I'm going to bash your head in." I ended up called my mother crying and she came home and talked to him, but then guess what? She just let it go. It's sad that she lets him get away with anything. He has done this to us my entire life.
My mother told me she almost left him when I was younger. I think it would have been better for me to be raised without a father, than be raised by an abusive father. By anyways, I'm getting into things that have nothing to do with money.

[bjl584]

Thanks for your reply... The reason she would want to leave him is not because he won't work. It's because 90% of the time he is extremely mean. He can fly off the handle for an innocent thing that was said. We never know what will set him off. We have to walk on eggshells sometimes because we don't know how he will react to something. He has hit me before. Just a few days ago we got in an argument and he chased me into the garage and said things like "I'm going to bash your head in." I ended up called my mother crying and she came home and talked to him, but then guess what? She just let it go. It's sad that she lets him get away with anything. He has done this to us my entire life.
My mother told me she almost left him when I was younger. I think it would have been better for me to be raised without a father, than be raised by an abusive father. By anyways, I'm getting into things that have nothing to do with money.

Your problems sound much larger than money. I truly wish you the best. I'm not qualified to tell you what to do with your life, but if I were in your shoes I would get out of that household. Get an apartment, stay with a friend, whatever. Nothing good can come out of staying in that situation.

[okstate]

Hmmmmm Scanner. Which junior? The 19 YO or the "father"?

I guess Scanner, I feel that they are already there at snobgrass hill as you put it. The adult 19-YO is complaining about the fact that father does no work (except "occasionally") yet he cleans a pool (wow, nice they have a pool), mows the lawn (wow, nice real yard with grass), while it sounds like mother goes to work to pay the mortgage and the cars (plural) for the last 8 years or so. Hmmmm. Wonder what years those cars are. Leased? Loans for 8 years? Or do they keep buying?

Why are you so bitter? You don't know us. Apparently you don't know how hard my parents (yes, mainly my mother) worked to get here. Okay, a pool? We live in Texas where it regularly gets above 100 degrees in the summer. Pools are very common here, a large number of homes have them. A lawn, who doesn't have a LAWN if they own a house? It's not 5 ACRES, it's an average sized lawn. You act like we drive Bentleys and wear only clothes from Neiman Marcus. A pool and a LAWN in Texas is not extravagant.

So people who have nice things have NO RIGHT to complain about an abusive father who watches porn and Judge Judy for the majority of the day? I see what he does, YOU DON'T. Do not judge other people you don't know. One of the cars is a 2001 Ford Taurus that has been paid off for years. One car is a 2006 Ford Fusion that was bought used, and has a balance of 2 or 3 thousand dollars, but only because my parents wanted to establish my credit. Yes there are probably better ways to do that, but that's just how my dad decided to do it. The other I know wasn't the best decision. It's a leased 2010 Nissan Murano. My dad leases just ONE of the cars. ONE CAR, you hear that Seeker? One is paid off, one has a balance to establish my credit. They lease that one car because we go on a vacation every year where we drive 2000 miles one way, and my dad wants a really reliable car. I know it's silly to think cars with over 40,000 miles on them aren't reliable, but that's just the way he thinks...

My parents have somewhere around 50,000 dollars in checkings and savings accounts, and 500 or 600,000 in retirement. Credit cards are paid in full every month. Any big purchase like expensive electronics or new furniture is paid with cash. Don't JUDGE people you don't know.

Technically all kinds of folks retire at 50 or earlier. Some are Union, some military, some police or other gov't, etc. and also get a pension before the time they can qualify for SS. Some retire and go back to school just for the fun of it. Some read. Some play golf. Whatever one chooses to do.

Okay, so him not working would be alright if he had four younger children, and left my mom to support them? Please. I SEE what he does, you don't. He sits on his ass most of the day, don't make assumptions when you don't know the entire story.

Dead weight is not necessarily the ones who don't "need" -- dead weight in my mind are the ones who keep spending and do not earn.

IMO the "father" as described here, is nowhere near as "lazy" as the poster of this thread makes him out to be.

Once again, you are not here. He is lazy.

Is he spending? Or is it the mother? Father seems to be working at home and if he were not doing that work, then well add it to the list of other things that need to be taken care of.

No, he is not spending money on anything but cigars.

He's a man who just wants to be left alone, not judged. I sort of wonder who bought the house in 2001, and whether or not she knew that he was going to choose severance in 2002. I sort of wonder about her mindset more than anything else... but she knows what she wants.

You realize my mother wanted me to post all of this on here? She wants help. She wants counseling. I am not doing this against her will. She knows about all of this, she reads this forum. I showed her the first post and she approved it because it was posted.

She makes 100k per year after a salary reduction. Does she really want anything to change? Possibly she'd like more communication, but it won't happen with the husband feeling like he has to protect his right to take it easy. He sees no reason to change. Does she?

Or it it the 19 YO person who wants a change?

Some of the words written "I have had enough" and "I hope I've made my mother to see" -- wow, that's strong.

If mother is reading this forum, I say this to her: "Do what YOU want to do with this situation. Your life can only be what you allow it to be with the other people in your world. You can only change yourself. You will only change yourself if you truly wish that change."

I'd say the same to the father. Father already does not see any reason to change. Father may well be happier alone. But he will not take that step.

And finally I'd say the same to the 19 YO. That 19 YO person needs to move on with their own life. Not try to change the other people around them... that's fruitless.

She WANTS my help. God Lord. I really appreciated and liked your first post, but this is just offensive and useless to me. I am going to keep trying to help my parents and if you can't understand that, please don't respond anymore to this. I appreciate the criticism because then I know how I can change and improve myself. But not trying to help my parents is not something I will do.

[okstate]

Your problems sound much larger than money. I truly wish you the best. I'm not qualified to tell you what to do with your life, but if I were in your shoes I would get out of that household. Get an apartment, stay with a friend, whatever. Nothing good can come out of staying in that situation.

Thanks a lot. That is so much more helpful than just attacking someone you don't know.

[bjl584]

Thanks a lot. That is so much more helpful than just attacking someone you don't know.

So is leaving an option? I know it can harder to walk away than to stay. The unknown can be scarier than just staying and dealing with what you know. Even if what you know is bad.

It would seem that you have spent a lifetime pondering over the behavior of your father. At any point have you thought that maybe just packing up and leaving could be your only real option? I know that's easier said than done, but it would seem from what you've posted so far that your current situation is bad and that it isn't going to be getting better anytime soon.

[okstate]

Well, I must say the thing about dying sure makes me wonder if the guy is depressed.

That's what my mom thought. It's strange that someone who worked so hard for 6 days a week now can just sit at home.

Well, I must say the thing about dying sure makes me wonder if the guy is depressed.

That's what my mom thought. It's strange that someone who worked for 6 days a week is now fine with just sitting at home.

You are making it sound as though your mother's previous income of $120-150K was barely enough to get by in that $300K house. Well, this is a money oriented forum, so thinking about money issues, I wonder about that. Seems like that should have been enough income to budget the regular home repairs and maintenance all along. Is there a spending problem in this family? Is the family now so in debt that they resent the stay at home parent and want him to change gears so that they can continue spending? Perhaps he too is part of an over spending problem. I mean, I know golf can be expensive. But really, not much financial info is given here, so who knows what to say.

That's not what I meant. I said in an earlier post, I just meant that they could have paid off the house so much faster with both working. She has no problem paying off the mortgage, it's just after paying off all the bills and putting money into retirement each month, there is not much left over. No debt other than house and car.

For most people, if they are in over their heads with their housing, the answer is to sell and move to a less expensive place, perhaps to rent. OH, and cars. In a household with one income it certainly makes sense to try and get by with only one car, especially if one is having trouble making ends meet. There are probably lots of ways to cut back...Certainly, personal conflicts and bad marriages can impact family finances, but there might be more than way way out of the financial cauldron here. If you cut expenses you cut the need for additional income, right?

I've said before that he doesn't need a car even if it's paid off, because he doesn't go anywhere. I need a car because I go to college 15 minutes away, and it's about 30 minutes on Mondays and Wednesdays. I need to help pay for the gas though, that would help my parents.

Original poster, as an adult, are you living in the household with your parents? If so, are you contributing to the finances?

Yes, I know I need to be paying for my own stuff. My parents would never accept money from me, but they would appreciate it if I paid for things like my clothing, any food I buy out, and gas for the car. It would be hard while I'm in college, but I won't rule it out completely. I'll definitely get a job when school is out. I'm very grateful for everything they have given me, I hope no one misunderstands what I'm saying. My parents have spoiled me because I'm an only child and a girl, and I know it's time to help them out if I'm going to live here. Really guys, I love my parents and want to help them so badly.

[Scanner]

OK,

When I posted about Junior, I was referring to your father, not you. I am not of the opinion that a 19 year old should just be foisted out into the world to fend for themselves. I beleive in the idea of extended family concept vs. homesteading.

That being said, 10-25 hours/week of work wouldn't interfere with your studies. I worked about that during college and even could go to a party now and then.

My post wasn't entirely helpful but your plight did give me some food for thought, about how we chose our career and make choices for the long run and not having exit plans and second career plans.