How do I talk to my wife?

[RayMetz100]

She is already tired of me talking about money with her. I brought it up last night on the phone that I wanted to sit with her sometime between now and payday and go over my paycheck allocation. She said she's already seen it in email and has no comment. She just wanted to drop the subject. I waited and she started to say "what's the difference, you already have an idea and nothing I say will change it"

I've decided not to talk to her again about money until our vegas trip is over next weekend. I made a mistake bringing it up on the phone. Before next payday I plan to print it out with room for her to adjust and just give it to her saying that when she has time later, could she take a look let me know if she has any suggestions. She appears like a cornered cat whenever I bring it up so I want to be as non-confrontational as possible. She's defensive because a couple weeks ago I asked her where her paychecks were going and she knows I want to know that. So anything I do showing her mine, she takes as bait for me trying to see hers. I want to drop hers and just work on me showing her what happens to all my paychecks, asking for her suggestions. Maybe after a couple months of that, she'll warm up. suggestions?

You wrote that she taught you a bit about handling cash and you took it in, heard and modified your cash consumption somewhat to better match your real-life habit or need through each week. Does she recognize this? Do you know whether or not she's noticed that you have incorporated one of her suggestions into your reality?

She taught me not to borrow between paychecks by using planned cash for pocket money. She knows that I've gotten better at that since January and don't borrow or bounce checks anymore. She’s proud of me for that. She’s not happy with the way I stopped her from borrowing from our joint account a few weeks ago.

divide it up, each of you selecting which bills you are going to pay. You pay your gas, she pays hers. If you don't want to pay for cable, and it's important to her, let her take that bill. For things you both use, like mortgage, divide it up 50/50 (If you knew how much she earned, this could be adjusted to reflect the actual earning percentages).

Where are the children in this budget, other than the $20 each per month for saving? Are they provided for through the mysterious, unaccounted for part of your wife's money life? Through the credit cards?

We each used to put X amounts into a joint account that covered the house payment, kids, groceries and all the joint expenses in between. That worked for several years, but after I stopped borrowing, I recently got tired of her borrowing from our joint account and when I would ask her what the expenses were, she’d reply “none of your business”. Her rationale was that the odd expenses come to her and she has to handle it all herself. When I asked what they were for, not knowing if they were her personal borrowing or not, she’d get resentful that I didn’t know what the family expense was in the first place and tease me by not telling me. Or she was covering for borrowing. I really don’t know which.

I solved that by “taking over” the joint account, whether good or bad. My check is 100% spent on bills and my planned pocket money within days of payday. So there is a $0 balance afterwards and she has nothing to borrow from. Her $3000/month paycheck covers $600 groceries, $300 gas, a couple $100 bills and the rest is either savings, extra credit card payments, kids, misc expenses, and pocket money. She can borrow to her hearts content now because whatever isn’t bills, is her on pocket money. My idea is that would encourage her to save on groceries and misc expenses. My problem is it was a unilateral move and alienated her, and I still don’t know exactly how much she makes or where the money goes. In hindsight, I could have approached it a lot better, but I think it was forward progress from where we were before.

A good part of the way a woman thinks (especially if she has children), is about the future. Have you ever sat down with her and planned some future event? Any budget plan without mention of savings or goals that are being worked toward for the future, are completely unimaginable to a woman. She cannot and will not share her work earnings without understanding how it better helps the whole current reality or the whole future reality or both herself and the ones she loves.

Future events right now… Hmm… Vegas is next week, but neither of us are saving for that. We’re both just spending our weekly/monthly pocket cash. Christmas is always an expense. I usually sell stock and get a bonus in September. That money usually covers extra credit card payments and Christmas. We don’t have any big vacations planned. Painting the house would be one, but we don’t have a plan to save for it. She’s always wanted vinyl windows on the house, but we don’t have $20k for that. I could take some of those and think of more, but right now I have no savings to apply to them. It would all come from her check. I don’t feel comfortable right now with setting savings goals for her check. I’d rather work with the bonus or stock money to plan.

Proceeding forward alone, without talking with her, and really listening, hearing and understanding her view, is unimaginable to me as well. You can only move forward; and if you and she still "love" each other, the the moving forward has to be defined as a team.

We do still love each other and compared to several other periods in our 17 year marriage, we’re at about a B+ right now. I think now is a great time to work on this financial trust and planning. She IMs me heart symbols throughout the week so it can’t be all bad.
I do plan to move forward as a team. When I do any action from now on, my first goals are trust and team. It’s no longer just about cold numbers anymore.

Figure out what she envisions for the future. And try to plan it for both of you.

I’ll work on this. I think she’s in a wound licking stage right now. I need to give her some time to heal from my bad behavior and then find out what she wants in the future. House paint would be first for her. I could let it go another 5 years.

If you and she cannot approach a collaborated definition of income and expenses, skip that for now (just do the best you can to modify and change your side of earnings and expenses). Instead you and she need to come up with a collaborated defintion of goals for the two of you as a team... or a vacation for the two of you to just simply be with each other for a week or so. The goal here is to learn to be with and talk and trust one another again

A short vacation would be a good first goal. I could ask her if she’s interested in me carving out some of my paycheck for a vacation and she might be interested in doing the same. Would it be wise to “trust” her with the money from my paycheck to save it? I do trust her and she is a better saver than me. I’d like to do that but curious what you guys think.

You have to comment on things that make her realize that you are seeing her once again.

Wow, this one is hard. Hard to remember daily and hard to do when I do remember. I have a verbal commenting personality. I tell her I love her, tell her when I like her hair, her outfit. I need work on verbally noticing non-physical things. I’ve done the good mother and nice garden things before. Really commenting on her character is something I’m going to have to stretch for.

. Why not designate that $120 for savings? That will give you a decent starter emergency fund of $1,440 a year from now.

My areas for savings are Pocket Money, Cell Phone, Car insurance, and Internet. I’ve worked the car insurance and cell phone already. Pocket Money I may have room in after Vegas. I need to work on Internet. When I do find money after the 15th of next month, I’ll put in savings. Maybe with her.

What the heck do you guys do? And what are you driving?

I drive 70 miles round trip in a 15mpg truck 5 days a week. I develop software and could drive a Geo, but I don’t have one. Maybe that could be a savings goal. My wife said her gas is $400. I think $300 is closer to reality. I think her work is about 45 miles round trip and her Lexus gets about 25mpg I think.

I get a partial sense that she does pay the bills, and he while writing about all of this is frustrated because he does not have that sense of what her earnings are and where she helps or does not help.

She makes around $3000 per month and pays…
$600 groceries and family expenses.
$300 in gas
$100 athletic club membership that we haven’t visited in 4 months.
? Tanning bill
$100 to the IRS (has been up to $600) or extra credit card payments. She hasn’t used a credit card in years. I charged $700 for tires last January.
Misc family expenses, kids
Her pocket money

They both want to control, and they both are in competition. 17 years of this could not be easy. She is defensive and protective.

I tell myself I don’t want control of the money anymore. Instead I want to work on gaining trust, cooperation, and finding her goals, suggestions, and needs. Easier said than done though. A good counselor may say I’m still controlling and competing. I don’t expect it will disappear overnight. Her perception surly won’t. All I can do is work on it.

[cptacek]

I think you guys need to see a counselor. At least someone who is on neither person's side and can help facilitate communication. Either she is very defensive or she is is acting defensive so that you will just shut up about it. I can see that you are trying very hard, but because you love her and want her happy, you might not be able to tell the difference between her actually being defensive and her acting defensive to put you in an awkward position.

I have had to change how I talk to my husband about money, and we've only been married 2 years. He would want to buy something for the farm, I would say no and he would get mad. I would think "we can't afford that, we don't need that. How are we going to pay for that." Now I say "what for" and then "how are we going to pay for it." Then we both decide if we do need it, if we can pay for it, if we can sell something else to pay for it, what it is worth compared to other things we are trying to pay for, etc. We rarely fight anymore, but he has learned he has to broach the subject first, let me stew on it a bit, maybe have me come out and experience what it is like to not have that piece of equipment or whatever, and then bring it up again. I have had to not just knee-jerk a no, but to really think how we can get that goal accomplished if it is something really needed.

You guys have had 17 years of a certain kind of communication (none ) and now you are trying to change it, so it may take some time. A counselor may help.

[Seeker]

She is already tired of me talking about money with her. I brought it up last night on the phone that I wanted to sit with her sometime between now and payday and go over my paycheck allocation.

You don't want to set aside time over the phone. You don't want to go over "my" paycheck allocation. You don't want to make any demands of her on this issue, just simply because it is a sore topic between you two.

She said she's already seen it in email and has no comment. She just wanted to drop the subject. I waited and she started to say "what's the difference, you already have an idea and nothing I say will change it"

You e-mailed her what you think? Don't write it, don't e-mail it.

I've decided not to talk to her again about money until our vegas trip is over next weekend. I made a mistake bringing it up on the phone. Before next payday I plan to print it out with room for her to adjust and just give it to her saying that when she has time later, could she take a look let me know if she has any suggestions.

Don't print something out and hand it to her. This is not normal communication.

She appears like a cornered cat whenever I bring it up so I want to be as non-confrontational as possible.

She is a cornered cat. When you write you show preconceived ideas. It takes time to write and is a very deliberate act. It is a careful act. And it is an isolative act. It's not a "team" act.

She's defensive because a couple weeks ago I asked her where her paychecks were going and she knows I want to know that. So anything I do showing her mine, she takes as bait for me trying to see hers. I want to drop hers and just work on me showing her what happens to all my paychecks, asking for her suggestions. Maybe after a couple months of that, she'll warm up. suggestions?

Just stop it.

Ray, what you are doing is confrontational and demanding. You ask demand her to stop and look at this. You ask her to make suggestions. You ask her to decide what you should do. Whether or not it's a ploy to get yourself into her side of earnings is sort of moot.

Is it your goal to save money? What exactly is your goal?
Please define your goal. Write it.

Do not put a "her" or a "she" or a "wife" in that definition. Define your goal and your goal alone.

If your goal really is to get her to "admit" that she's not done right with money... then forget it. The past is gone and done with. Forgive and forget. I'm sure she wants to do that too.

If your goal is to try and change her behavior, forget it. You can only change yourself.

If your goal is to try to save money on your own, then you can do that without any input from her.

Take half your own pocket money and just decide not to spend it. $800/month pocket money? Is each person meant to save a portion of that money for the future? Or is it really necessary to spend like $35 per workday?

Pocket money in my mind is "untouchable" and unquestionable -- it's each person's fun money. But $800/month is almost $10k per year. That's a lot of "fun" money. I cannot imagine spending $35 each workday on any kind of regular activity.

$800/month is over 10% of your income alone.

My suggestion as what to "do" with your wife:

DO NOT TALK WITH HER ABOUT $s BEFORE THE END OF THIS PAY PERIOD WHATSOEVER.

Do not list anything about $s.

DO NOT e-mail her about $s.

Do not phone her about $s.

At the end of this pay period, take whatever dollars in cash you have extra, and hand it to her and say this:

The past money is gone, I want to move forward, and I'm not sure how to best to that. Here is the money I have extra this pay period... please do with it as you think best for our future.

And just keep doing that until she actually approaches you for input on how to best handle this for your and her future.

Essentially, one of you is going to have to make the first step. And you're elected because she's not budging.

You need to give up something in order to earn "trust" financially. Show her that you are willing to trust her with your "extra" dollars.

If you keep giving her those extra dollars every pay period for say two months, and she does not come to you for advice, they you have earned the right to gently ask if there's anything more that maybe you can do to help lower your side of costs.

Don't give her lists via e-mail or writing. Don't call her. Just say it with her, you don't have to sit, you don't have to allocate time for this.

Just communicate face-to-face.

Don't demand her to set aside time for dealing with your sudden financial need to know. After 17 years of handling it, she's used to dealing with it herself.

While it's true that she's not made the best decisions, she needs to recognize that you are willing to take that step of trusting her.

Where are the children in this budget, other than the $20 each per month for saving? Are they provided for through the mysterious, unaccounted for part of your wife's money life? Through the credit cards?

We each used to put X amounts into a joint account that covered the house payment, kids, groceries and all the joint expenses in between.

That worked for several years, but after I stopped borrowing, I recently got tired of her borrowing from our joint account and when I would ask her what the expenses were, she’d reply “none of your business”.

Her rationale was that the odd expenses come to her and she has to handle it all herself. When I asked what they were for, not knowing if they were her personal borrowing or not, she’d get resentful that I didn’t know what the family expense was in the first place and tease me by not telling me. Or she was covering for borrowing. I really don’t know which.

I solved that by “taking over” the joint account, whether good or bad. My check is 100% spent on bills and my planned pocket money within days of payday. So there is a $0 balance afterwards and she has nothing to borrow from. Her $3000/month paycheck covers $600 groceries, $300 gas, a couple $100 bills and the rest is either savings, extra credit card payments, kids, misc expenses, and pocket money. She can borrow to her hearts content now because whatever isn’t bills, is her on pocket money.

My idea is that would encourage her to save on groceries and misc expenses.

My problem is it was a unilateral move and alienated her, and I still don’t know exactly how much she makes or where the money goes. In hindsight, I could have approached it a lot better, but I think it was forward progress from where we were before.

Your last line (especially after the comma) is subject to perspective. You may think that this is forward progress, but I'm pretty sure your wife does not see it that way. You are encroaching into her realm for the past 17 years, and suddenly questioning her behavior and wanting to change her behavior.

Who pays medical bills or co-payment? Dental? or Vision?
Who pays repairs on the house/cars?
Do the children do any sports, activities, hobbies?
Do they get any allowance or have any school expenses?

Does she actually pay the bills, or you?

Your paycheck listing is 6k per month, her listing 3k per month. We are talking approx 102k per year. Is this net (after taxes, medical 401k, etc) pay? If it's net pay, there's not 130k to work with from that perspective either; it's 102k total combined. If the two of you get 28k of bonuses, where does that money go?

Future events right now… Hmm… Vegas is next week, but neither of us are saving for that. We’re both just spending our weekly/monthly pocket cash. Christmas is always an expense. I usually sell stock and get a bonus in September. That money usually covers extra credit card payments and Christmas. We don’t have any big vacations planned. Painting the house would be one, but we don’t have a plan to save for it. She’s always wanted vinyl windows on the house, but we don’t have $20k for that. I could take some of those and think of more, but right now I have no savings to apply to them. It would all come from her check. I don’t feel comfortable right now with setting savings goals for her check. I’d rather work with the bonus or stock money to plan.

Planning for spending money together was not my suggestion.
Planning for future events together was what I meant.

I'm not talking about house things. Your wife is a human being... she's been alone a lot in the past. Might she just want to be with you without talking about money or finances?

You think consistently of dollars. I assure you that she does not.

Forget money and just be with her. It does not need to be a spending event. It does not need to cost a cent.

We do still love each other and compared to several other periods in our 17 year marriage, we’re at about a B+ right now. I think now is a great time to work on this financial trust and planning. She IMs me heart symbols throughout the week so it can’t be all bad.
I do plan to move forward as a team. When I do any action from now on, my first goals are trust and team. It’s no longer just about cold numbers anymore.

Then learn to give and learn to trust and learn to accept both your failings as individuals.

No person is perfect. We all have issues and places of thoughts we don't really want our SO to be.

Accept that your wife, for whatever reasons, at this point in time, is not ready to share finances with you.

Show her that that's okay.

A short vacation would be a good first goal. I could ask her if she’s interested in me carving out some of my paycheck for a vacation and she might be interested in doing the same. Would it be wise to “trust” her with the money from my paycheck to save it? I do trust her and she is a better saver than me. I’d like to do that but curious what you guys think

I think this is the third time that you wrote that she's a better saver than you.

If you give her money with directions of what she is to use it for, you've not really shown that you trust her to do the "best" thing for the two of you. You're just asking her to do something that you should be able to do yourself.

Ray, this decision is really between the two of you.

In all honesty, I do not know if she really wants full financial control; I do not know if she really wants full decision making with regard to finances.

If you are really willing to let her control 100% of finances, then you would have to let her do so unquestioned.
If you are willing to entirely let go, then you should ask her if that would indeed make her happier.

You'd have to truthfully assure her (verbally, in person -- not via writing) that you will no longer interfere nor question her about any dollars. And you would need to let her know that you are trusting her to do the right thing with the money for you and the children, and that you are willing to help, but that she must ask for your help as you will not interfere anymore. You just need a certain amount of allowance money each payperiod (or whatever), and that allowance is to spend as you see fit and is entirely yours; she should not question what you consume it on. Everything else would be for her to handle and you should not question her on it.

If you really want to let go of that control, you need to find out if she's willing to do this task in your family. So ask her... she may say yes, she may say no.

If she says yes, then relinquish control.

If she says no, then accept it. You control your earnings and she controls hers. DO NOT ENCROACH ANYMORE. LET HER AND HER EARNINGS BE.

She makes around $3000 per month and pays…
$600 groceries and family expenses.
$300 in gas
$100 athletic club membership that we haven’t visited in 4 months.
? Tanning bill
$100 to the IRS (has been up to $600) or extra credit card payments. She hasn’t used a credit card in years. I charged $700 for tires last January.
Misc family expenses, kids
Her pocket money

The list grows.

She's not doing wrong by you... you just don't know what she's been spending on.

But after 17 years, a sudden change in your financial behavior, asking questions, making lists, changing plans, demanding to know, pressing her to save more, etc., is putting her on defense.

I tell myself I don’t want control of the money anymore. Instead I want to work on gaining trust, cooperation, and finding her goals, suggestions, and needs. Easier said than done though. A good counselor may say I’m still controlling and competing. I don’t expect it will disappear overnight. Her perception surly won’t. All I can do is work on it.

For some reason, all you are thinking right now is dollars. Forget dollars when you are with her.

[RayMetz100]

Don't email, Don't print, don't write, don't pre-conceive. That's going to be very hard. I like to plan with a computer or pen and calculator. She doesn't. (with me anyway). I need to think of ways to approach her before I do any planning on my own? This is going to be hard.

Is it your goal to save money? What exactly is your goal? Please define your goal. Write it.

I don’t really have a big savings goal. I have listed these yearly expenses that I’d like to cover without struggling:
Homeowners Dues $150.00 1/15/2010
Mom Birthday $50.00 1/15/2010
Daughter's Birthday $200.00 2/10/2010
Anniversary $200.00 2/13/2009
Valentine’s Day $200.00 2/14/2010
networksolutions.com $35.00 4/1/2009
Mother's day $200.00 5/1/2009
Driver License Renewal $50.00 5/19/2011
June House Party $500.00 6/10/2009
'01 Bandit Registration $54.75 8/10/2008
School Shopping $250.00 9/1/2009
Son's Birthday $200.00 9/1/2009
Work christmas Party $500.00 11/15/2007
Wife's Birthday $500.00 11/15/2008
Christmas $1,500.00 11/15/2008
F150 Registration $59.00 12/5/2008

They haven’t been updated recently, for instance our June House Party was covered by less than $100 of my pocket money this year. Last year we skipped the MS Christmas party.

Take half your own pocket money and just decide not to spend it. $800/month pocket money? Is each person meant to save a portion of that money for the future? Or is it really necessary to spend like $35 per workday?

I’ve been doing that before Vegas here and I can spend as little as $100 a week. I want to start after Vegas though. I still plan on lowering to $160, $140 etc and practice not going over each week.

DO NOT TALK[, list, email, phone] WITH HER ABOUT $s BEFORE THE END OF THIS PAY PERIOD WHATSOEVER. At the end of this pay period, take whatever dollars in cash you have extra, and hand it to her and say this: The past money is gone, I want to move forward, and I'm not sure how to best to that. Here is the money I have extra this pay period... please do with it as you think best for our future.

Great idea. I will have around $100 to give her after the 15th.

Who pays medical bills or co-payment? Dental? or Vision?
Who pays repairs on the house/cars?
Do the children do any sports, activities, hobbies?
Do they get any allowance or have any school expenses?
Does she actually pay the bills, or you?

We have elected $2,000 per year in pre-paid medical and if we use more than that, she would have to pay. She would have to pay for car repairs. For instance my 16yo Son’s $1000 car just died and she’s put $200 towards replacement already. She gave me the money to save for him. For the last year she’s planned $500 in extra payments because I paid off her lexus early with my bonus. His car money she gave came from that this month. Kids activity would come from her. Daughter recently quit drum lessons, son doesn’t have activities. My wife would pay for all the school expenses like $100 yearbook , gym shorts, whatever. X2. Kids both work. No allowance. Since I pushed her out of the joint checking account last month, I’ve been paying all the bills. Before shat she was paying 80% of them out of the joint account. She still has full access to the account, but I spend 100% of it so she no longer uses it.

Your paycheck listing is 6k per month, her listing 3k per month. We are talking approx 102k per year. Is this net (after taxes, medical 401k, etc) pay? If it's net pay, there's not 130k to work with from that perspective either; it's 102k total combined. If the two of you get 28k of bonuses, where does that money go?

My gross is 3975.75 twice a month. Net is 2947.41. Federal withholding is $330, SS 245, 401k is $238, Healthcare spending acct is $83.33. My Employee Lunch card is $40. Those are the big ones.
Her gross is $30k per year. She earns about $500/mo in addition to that from weekend and night work. The $500 is for her own clothes and hair, not because I want her working.
I don’t like to plan for it, but my job gives about $5000 year in stock, which I sell immediately for savings and credit card payments. I can also get $2,000 - $12,000 in bonus. Both come in Aug/Sept and are taxed heavily.

Might she just want to be with you without talking about money or finances? You think consistently of dollars. I assure you that she does not. Forget money and just be with her.

Good point. I have a problem obsessing on whatever hobby I take up. Right now I’m obsessing about money. I have to consciously work to limit myself to viewing this message board once every 1-2 days so I don’t think about it 24/7 and it can affect my bi-polar. That goes for any interest of mine, not just this one. Not strict medical advice, but something I’ve learned after 3 hospital visits.

Accept that your wife, for whatever reasons, at this point in time, is not ready to share finances with you. Show her that that's okay.

Great idea. I just need to drop it with her and not fish. Handing her cash next 15th could mean fishing so I may even skip that. She can see the account if she’s curious. She will also see my pocket cash going down over time. Maybe I leave well enough alone, work on my side and she will relax and see the balance go up.

These bonuses coming in 2 months will stress us though. (if they come). My unilateral plan is to save the DR $1000, I think that might be good to give that to her, then pay the rest on credit cards. If I’m real lucky, our cc balance may drop under $12,500 but I don’t like to count on the bonus because I’ve had bad years getting $2000 and seen others get worse. They grade on a curve and sometimes seem to randomly select people to screw each year.

Would it be wise to “trust” her with the money from my paycheck to save it?

I meant some of my paycheck, the leftover cash after paying bills. She does not want to handle everything and I don't want her to either. I don't think that's something we need to discuss.

DO NOT ENCROACH ANYMORE. LET HER AND HER EARNINGS BE.

Point taken. I will let it go for at least a couple months. Maybe I should think after Christmas or something.

For some reason, all you are thinking right now is dollars. Forget dollars when you are with her.

Forget dollars when I’m with her. Ok. No dollars on the phone and none when I’m with her. Let it all go and just be with her for now. I can do that.

[disneysteve]

Mom Birthday $50.00
Daughter's Birthday $200.00
Anniversary $200.00
Valentine’s Day $200.00
Mother's day $200.00
Son's Birthday $200.00
Work christmas Party $500.00
Wife's Birthday $500.00
Christmas $1,500.00

You are living paycheck to paycheck, have no emergency fund or other savings except for putting 6% into a 401k and yet you are somehow able to spend $3,550 on gifts and parties. I realize that these are projected numbers and you might not actually spend that much but given your situation, I think these numbers are really out of whack. You need to decide what your priorities are. Do you want to get out of debt and build wealth and have a comfortable retirement or do you want to claw through life spending every spare penny on luxuries and wants and be faced with either working until you die or having a pretty meager existence on social security income in your senior years?

[tripods68]

Nevermind....

[tripods68]

Ray,

I'm sorry but your family finances are out of whacked (no pun intended). You should be focusing in cutting back and simplfying your family finances. You work as "individual" not as a "TEAM". Marriage is about open communication and unfortunately much of your differences could have been resolve if you and your wife discussed finances more openly years back. Your main focus should be to pay off credit debts first and foremost while finding ways to cut backs on other expenses, if not eliminate them completely. Good luck.

[RayMetz100]

I messed up again. Yesterday our house was broken in to. Most of the items taken were my wife's jewelry and cameras. When we inventoried it all, our rough estimate came to $10k. So we both went to bed partly dreaming what if insurance sent us a check for $9k in a month? This morning she made a comment along the lines "I'm sure you're already thinking about paying off credit cards if we were to get a big insurance check, it was mostly my stuff that got taken and I just want to let you know right now I'm thinking I should get a $8,000 tummy tuck". I then slipped and called her selfish and we argued for a while and I left for work. We made up within an hour over the phone. Insurance called back and the jewelry limit is $1500 so with the electronics the check might actually be $1500 after our deductible. Nothing to fight about now. The money will likely be used to replace some of the actual items lost. Not credit cards or tummy tuck.

I made other progress on our Internet bill, it's now $20/month and could go to $15 if I buy my own $30 modem. The bill used to be $50. I also checked my data usage and minutes on cell phones and lowered several plans. Hopefully saving around $75/mo. Next I'm going to shop for cheaper auto insurance.

you are somehow able to spend $3,550 on gifts and parties... I think these numbers are really out of whack

Those are old numbers from the lifestyle that put me further into debt. I'd charge up $4k over the year, then pay it off with my bonus. Last year we charged $10k sending our son to OutwardBound canoeing for a month and all went to Disney World afterwards.

This year my wife and I are planning small vacations with our pocket money. The parties and vacations like Vegas next Thursday are all paid with the budgeted pocket money. Of that list, the only non-pocket money things coming up would be Christmas, the work party, and my wife's birthday. All three fall within 4 months of my bonus and all amounts can be lowered. I do need to decide whether I want to spend all bonus and stock on reducing debt, or save some of it for those three big expenses. I have 2 months to decide.

Do you want to get out of debt and build wealth and have a comfortable retirement or do you want to claw through life spending every spare penny on luxuries and wants and be faced with either working until you die or having a pretty meager existence on social security income in your senior years?

Seven years ago my wife and I were separated and we had $0 saved for retirement. Now we have $50k in mutual funds and rental properties worth $50k. I do want to get out of debt and grow our retirement accounts. We're 37 and don't even have one years salary saved. We can do better than that. A lot better.

My plan for this month is to stick to the budget I posted and lower my pocket money from 180 to 160 and eventually $140/wk. I think if I can do that for a couple months and get through the bonus period and Christmas without going outside my budget, then I'll be on track for a very different lifestyle than I've had these past 7 years. I think eventually my wife will start to trust and respect my new attitude and she'll join in eventually. I just need to keep it simple this week, get through Vegas and whatnot, then work it slowly.

This is a lot different than I've ever done before. In the last 22 years I've been working, I've never planned a paycheck out ahead of time. I did try one or two monthly budgets before, but I can't ever remember sticking to them. I think one of the reasons was my wife and I were sharing money. It feels different this time knowing my wife isn't going to come up with some random expense and less pressure for me to beat her to it. I'm the only one of us who cares about this budget so I've got to make it work myself and can't blame anyone. I know that's not the “we” attitude I'm going for, but "we" aren't both interested right now. I have to do the best with what I have and I don't think it would be better for me to throw away my budget and wait until she's ready to join. That may never happen. I think I need to be a leader here and trust she will join when she sees me stop acting like a fool, which can't happen in a month. I'm guessing she thinks I will get bored of this and is watching to see me do something stupid. So I can work to prove to both her and myself that I really do want to work on my finances this time. Only time will tell though.

Ok I will try to not post for a week and enjoy Vegas.

Ray

[disneysteve]

Yesterday our house was broken in to. Most of the items taken were my wife's jewelry and cameras. When we inventoried it all, our rough estimate came to $10k. So we both went to bed partly dreaming what if insurance sent us a check for $9k in a month? This morning she made a comment along the lines "I'm sure you're already thinking about paying off credit cards if we were to get a big insurance check, it was mostly my stuff that got taken and I just want to let you know right now I'm thinking I should get a $8,000 tummy tuck".

Incredible. Where did you find her? Your house is robbed, you lose $10,000 worth of stuff and all she can think about is using insurance money for cosmetic surgery.

Of course, the fact that you guys had $10,000 worth of stuff that she would happily live without replacing says a lot about the spending habits up until now. I wonder how many other thousands of dollars worth of stuff you have sitting around that could be sold in order to pay off your debt.

This year my wife and I are planning small vacations with our pocket money.

Vacations need to be a budgeted item (assuming that you can afford them). I think the problem that some of us here are having with your "pocket" money being so high is that you are using it on such a variety of things that should be itemized in your budget. Your budget needs to account for every dollar. Throwing $700 in a basket and calling it "pocket money" is not budgeting.

[asmom]

I was always found it strange when married people had separate finances, but as DS mentioned I've learned to remain partial in this matter. I do have a question; what would happen if one person in the marriage becomes ill and cannot work any longer and contribute to the household finances? The other person would have to pickup the slack, right? Do people with separate finances feel the same way? I'm just rather intrigued by the separate "pockets" mentality.

Hi there. I've been married for 20 years and my husband and I have had separate finances for 17 of those years. My grandmother who was married to my grandfather for 50 years until his death advised me to keep my money separate but I didn't believe her. We started out like most people with joint everything because I believed that was the way a marriage worked: two people working together for a common goal and all that. My first clue that we were not on the same page was when our phone was cut off two months after we got married. Rule #1:I had to assume responsibility for making sure the bills were getting paid.

My husband liked that because he thought he could spend, spend, spemd and I would make sure business was taken care of. He didn't like it when I explained that he couldn't have anything he wanted. 3 years later, the problem came to a head when he bought a $300 watch on his part-time income during a time when I was working 3 jobs. I realized my mistake was that he was insulated from the reality of paying the bills because he just didn't get it. New rule: I quit 2 of my jobs and advised him that from now on, we were going to have separate accounts and we were now going to split household bills down the middle. That helped change his perspective a little.

Over the next few years, both of our incomes grew along with our family but we were very careful to keep some of our fixed costs low so that over time we had more and more disposable income. I went back to grad school and graduated with some debt which spurred me to reorganize my finances and start saving. He on the other hand, continued with the same old patterns. About 3 years ago, he became somewhat secretive about his finances and defensive whenever I asked about it no matter how casually. I did some investigating and found out he was 42K in credit card debt.

Stop! Yet another new rule: Finances were to remain separate but you are not to do anything that would place the family in jeopardy like run up 42K in credit card debt! So I created a budget for him and advised him that his participation was not optional. He was also to establish an emergency fund of at least $2500. He can still do what he wants to with his discretionary income as long as 1)He follows the budget I provided and 2)He doesn't incur any additional consumer debt. Thank goodness, I've never had a problem getting him to contribute to his retirement, plus his job contributes another 6%.


That was a long story but to answer your specific question: We both have disability insurance, long-term and short-term.

This model works for us. Even though our finances are separate, they are intertwined. I could have tried to stick with the joint model but that would have led us to the poorhouse. And even though I don't have nearly enough money saved, I am now saving 40% of my income towards my retirement and within 10 years I should be where I need to be so I don't have to depend on him in my old age and he doesn't have to depend on me. That makes me very happy.

[disneysteve]

I believed that was the way a marriage worked: two people working together for a common goal

new rule: Finances were to remain separate but you are not to do anything that would place the family in jeopardy

Please don't take this personally. I'm very glad that your system works for you and your husband. What I'm going to say is my own personal opinion of what I want and expect in a marriage. I know others here disagree with me.

If it is necessary to have a "rule" like that, than one of the people in that relationship is NOT interested in working together for a common goal. That would be a deal-breaker for me as far as any relationship went. I think I would have a great deal of trouble staying with someone who ran off and acquired tens of thousands of dollars in debt secretly. Monetary infidelity is just as damaging to relationships as sexual infidelity. It is all about trust. Once one partner demonstrates that he or she can't be trusted, the relationship is never the same. I wouldn't want to have a wife who I had to monitor and track constantly to make sure she wasn't overspending or opening credit accounts secretly.

Not only is it about trust, but it is about open communication. It is perfectly fine, IMO, for one partner to handle all of the household finances, pay the bills, manage the investments, etc. That's how we do it and we've been together over 18 years. BUT there MUST be communication. I maintain a spreadsheet of our finances with all of our accounts and investments and at least a couple of times each year, the two of us sit down and review that information item by item so my wife knows exactly where things stand. So even though I'm the one physically doing the money stuff, she stays well-informed about it all.

[wnlbutterfly]

I am sure you are tired of all the advice, and there is a LOT of good advice. I would reread this thread many times over, you will pick up something new each time.

I would say you really need an outside person to help. There are plenty of financial counselors out there and this way perhaps the wife would feel as if she isn't getting cornered.

You have teen kids, hopefully they will be going to college. With your income they won't get pell grants. You will be looking at more loans, more expenses. Just remember all those nice meals you treated your family too when you are having problems buying college textbooks.

I only had the odd thought of how do you know she saves $ if you don't have any idea what she is doing or not doing with her income really.

This is a recipe for bankruptcy. I hope you manage to get it sorted out.

I am with DisneySteve on the married finances, but I do understand those that need to keep things separate. That is usually those that have already acquired finanacial stability (like my MIL who remarried, they picked some things they did joint and others they kept separate). This couple has been married 17 yrs. I have been married 27 yrs and the only thing that are separate here are the clothes! It's not that right or wrong situation, it is just what we know and understand and how we made it work and I fully understand it works different for each couple.

However, it isn't working for this couple obviously.

Good Luck...I honestly mean that. Keep us posted

[jIM_Ohio]

Marriages are never a 50-50 split. NEVER. One spouse will earn more than the other, one spouse will spend more late nights with crying kids. One spouse will do more yard work, one spouse will cook more meals, one spouse will clean more dishes, one spouse will clean more toilets. One will spend more money, buy more groceries and pay more bills.

In my house I make more money, do more yard work and clean more toilets. My wife does more of everything else.

If you see the need to keep score (between spouses) then your marriage will fail. I have been married since 2001, so I am not an expert by any means, but we do OK.


When it comes to money, I do more than my wife- I research ways to save money, research ways to invest and do lots of work in this regard. My wife does not ignore me when I ask to talk to her about money. She does not get upset when I email her about money or ask about it on the phone. I don't go into that well very often, but talking about it 1-3X per year usually happens.

You need to press the issue with wife on money (IMO) by talking about it (email and phone do not count). You both need to start by discussing your goals- 5 year, 10 years, 30 years away. You need to talk about funding those goals too at some point.

If you avoid talking with each other, there is a deeper problem and go get a lawyer.

[disneysteve]

If you avoid talking with each other, there is a deeper problem and go get a lawyer.

As I said in post #2 at the start of this thread:

This is not really a financial issue.

[Ima saver]

I handle all the money in my family, but everything is kept in joint accounts. My dh gets an allowance of $80 a week and he can do with it what he wants. He uses it mostly to buy gas and fet beer occasionaly. (The allowance started out at $20 a week, but gas has gone up a lot and he drives a big work van)
We do not buy any big ticket items without discussing it first. (like a $500 new tool) we charge some smaller items, but I pay the card off every month, out of our budget.