How do I talk to my wife?

[RayMetz100]

I recently did my budget and found after spending my paycheck on all the bills and gas for $5000, I have $840 per month left for restaurants, pocket money, haircuts, oil changes, gifts, and clothes. My wife's bills and groceries add up to $1600 and she apparently has $1400 left for restaurants, pocket money, haircuts, oil changes, gifts, and clothes. She won’t admit it though. She won't tell me exactly how much she makes or how much she spends. I found one of her 80 hour paystubs and calculated this.

At this point, I'm more interested in her admitting she spends $1400 a month while I spend $840. I'm hoping if I can get her to acknowledge that, then later we can decide together if we want to keep it that way or change something. Part of me thinks I should just focus on reducing my $840 and mind my own business. But I also feel like I've had my head in the sand for the last several years and can't ignore the surprise when I noticed she's spending more than me. I thought I was the spender of the household.

She also wants to spend $500 less on the household this July because her $500 car payment will be paid off. If that happens, she'll have $1900 per month of pocket money. Am I an idiot?

Ray

[disneysteve]

She won't tell me exactly how much she makes or how much she spends.

You have a VERY SERIOUS problem here. This is NOT how married people operate. Where is the trust in this relationship? You are married. You are supposed to be working together as a team to achieve common goals. That's can't ever happen if one of you is hiding vital information from the other.

This is not really a financial issue. That's just where it is showing up. I'd suggest that the two of you seek some type of marriage counseling to work through this.

As for her income, all you need to do is look at your tax return to know how much she earned. It has to be listed on there.

[RayMetz100]

I know her income from our tax return and finding the paystub. I was just too lazy before to calculate each of our income minus bills. I wasn't even calculating my own before. Just in the last couple months, I put myself on a $180/week budget for pocket money and save $60 per month for my clothes, hair, oil changes, and gifts. Before that I was running blind myself. So how could I look into her business without having my own house in order first? So now that I think I have a handle on my own money, I'm wondering if I should ask anything of her.

I think it would be an even more serious problem to accuse and demand things from her while my own paycheck was a mess. Two months isn't that long so I'm thinking I should track my own money and wait a while rather than rocking the boat too soon.

If I did want to rock the boat, what would I ask of her? I really don't want to change anything now, but I do want her to admit she spends $500 a month more than me if that's the case. I'd also like to save money eventually, and I can trim my own $840 down to save more, but I'd like her help saving eventually too.

She is a better saver than me. I believe that. I was just surprised to find she's also a better spender than me. I guess when you have more free money it's easier to do both.

Ray

[alohaitsaj]

You might want to consider...

...using a personal finance software program to visually show your wife what your financial picture looks like. GreenSherpa has a unique feature where it allows users to collaborate with a spouse and have financial conversations through the software. It's a non-confrontational way to have difficult financial conversations. You should check it out!

[kork13]

It's pretty clear that you've not been working as a team financially, and as DS suggests, that may not be the extent of it. If you have a happy and successful marriage, I'm not going to knock how you operate...although it does seem rather odd -- more like a business partnership than a social/romantic relationship. But in any case, I would address it from the 'teamwork' perspective -- you want to work together to control your expenditures. Bring up your concerns, and try to figure out how you can both improve the situation together, on both sides.

[jpg7n16]

...This is not really a financial issue. That's just where it is showing up. I'd suggest that the two of you seek some type of marriage counseling to work through this.

See DS's reply here^^

[zakity]

Yep, sounds like you both need counseling. Good luck.

[ktmarvels]

While counseling may help and be warranted, I don't necessarily feel that all is doom and gloom in your world.

One way of approaching it is to talk about common goals and how to work together toward those. For example, looking at housing you could talk about what kind of house you picture, and how large of a down payment you need, how much each is willing to put toward this goal. Now this could be for vacations, retirement, hobbies, pretty much anything.

[disneysteve]

So how could I look into her business without having my own house in order first?

You talk about "her business" and your "own house" and I think that's exactly where the problem lies. You guys are married. "Her" business IS your business. "Your" house IS her house. You both need to throw out the single person mindset. You aren't single anymore. What you do affects her. What she does affects you. The two of you need to work together. I believe it was Abe Lincoln who said, "A house divided against itself can not stand." I'm not saying that you necessarily need to totally combine your finances (although that's what my wife and I do), but there needs to be open books on both sides. She can't hide stuff from you and you can't hide stuff from her. It needs to be a joint effort even if certain accounts are only accessible by one of you.

She is a better saver than me. I believe that. I was just surprised to find she's also a better spender than me. I guess when you have more free money it's easier to do both.

How very true.

[jaine]

In a modern world, couples can define how together or separate they want their finances to me. It needs to be talked about, but I don't think it needs to end in a decision to pool your finances. Maybe that option would make you both happy - maybe it wouldn't. There are many possible outcomes here that would be fair to both of you, including some options with separate budgets and some with pooled finances.
The important thing is that you both talk about it openly and you find a solution that meets your needs and hers... it doesn't matter what the rest of the world thinks or how many other people are doing it ... it's your relationship not theirs.

[sm808]

I am not married - so take this for what its worth - but I think part of this discussion depends on how you actually handle finances. Are all of your bills separate - even rent/mortgage/utilities? If you have everything divided, I think there is less leeway for you to have "expectations" of her and what she is expected to pay/spend/save, etc. However, I know of several recommendations where you add the total household income (you+her) divide total household expenses into this total. Example - Total household expenses are 80k, total income is 100k, so expenses are 80% of income. Thus, both parties would contribute 80% of income to the "pot" - that is, to pay communal expenses and the remainder can be allocated however they chose - saving, spending, etc. You may want to discuss including some saving (EF, retirement, etc.) in the household expenses to make it a priority. This would mean that the higher-earning spouse contributes more in absolute terms, but both spouses contribute proportionately the same.

[terces]

I agree with DS... the problem is the secrecy regarding the finances. Its one thing to keep it separate if that is your desire, but to hide what a person makes and is spending is another thing. Maybe I'm biased....Having a good friend who's ex-husband did the same thing to her. Never telling her what his paycheck was or where it was going. She just had her monthly allotment to pay the household bills. Only to find out he was living a complete other life with other women for the past 16years.

SM808 has a good recomendation on keeping the finances separate...but equal

[disneysteve]

I agree with DS... the problem is the secrecy regarding the finances. Its one thing to keep it separate if that is your desire, but to hide what a person makes and is spending is another thing.

This was my point. I don't care if you keep your finances separate or joint. I'm personally partial to joint but I know it works just fine separate for many couples. But no matter which way you do it, it needs to be handled in an open and honest manner. One partner can't be hiding income and refusing to share financial information with the other partner. In my mind, that's a sign of a much deeper problem.

[PrincessPerky]

This was my point. I don't care if you keep your finances separate or joint. I'm personally partial to joint but I know it works just fine separate for many couples. But no matter which way you do it, it needs to be handled in an open and honest manner. One partner can't be hiding income and refusing to share financial information with the other partner. In my mind, that's a sign of a much deeper problem.

Ditto that... can I make the Open and Honest nice and bold?

Also who cares if she spends more than you? Is it a spending race or a marriage?

[jIM_Ohio]

Until you can talk about money, and how you value possessions vs people, then you are going to see some rough waters.