Do you NEED 2 incomes?

[PrincessPerky]

did you have a dishwasher, vcr, dvd player, cable, microwave, and internet?
multiple cell phones and gadgets? computers and laptops?

multiple tvs? tivo? ,ultiple gaming systems?

did your two cars have AC and power everything including built in cd or even dvd players?

I am asking an honest question, I grew up more of the 80s and 90s and well below average income, so I really don't know I had none of the above.

I am guessing you had radio and some form of music player (tapes?) so the mp3 player and cd player is about the modern version.

there are some modern expenses that have made needs cost more.. IE car seats, up to 80 lbs need em. airbags and other safety features make cars cost more. (I didn't have those as a kid either)

[DebbieL]

Dishwasher? Yes, got one in the late 70s.
VCR? Yes (in early 80s when they became common).
Cable? Yes, all my life (I was born in 1970).
Microwave? Yes (again, once they became common).
Internet? Obviously it wasn't around. We would have had it had it been around.
Multiple cell phones and gadgets? Don't currently have multiple cell phones, and they didn't exist then. Not sure what you mean by gadgets, but we had plenty of "things" that other families had at the time. Gadgets are nothing new - they are just different ones today.
Computers and laptops? Obviously not common in the 1970s. I will say any of those things we would have had (easily) if they had been available.
Multiple tvs? Yes, we had 3. We had our main one in the living room, I had a tv in my bedroom, and we had a tv in the basement for playing video games (think the original table tennis type video games from the later 1970s).
Tivo? Don't even have it now, and not interested in it. I don't watch enough tv to care if I happen to catch a show or not.
Multiple gaming systems? No. I don't have that now either (because they don't interest me). We did have that original video game system (was it Atari?).
A/C for cars? No, it wasn't necessary (I've still never had it). Where we live it is a very moderate climate. I've never felt the need for A/C in a vehicle. Nobody has it in their homes here either. We just don't need it. It's warm here, not usually hot.
The cars had all the typical options that a new car in the 1970s would have. I'm sure power steering and power brakes and cruise control were on them. I personally didn't go for many power options when I bought my new Corolla in 2003. I don't need more things to break down.
We had three stereos (which included record player, cassette player, radio and amplifier). One in my room, one one the main floor and one in the basement. They were hooked up to cable so we got all the good radio stations. I had ghetto blasters and walkmans when those came out.
There are modern expenses that cost more, like you said, but there are also things that are way cheaper now. My parents paid over $2000 in 1981 for a new stereo (to replace the one on the main floor). TVs were costly then. Most technology things were way more back then. Living was so much cheaper (at least here) that we could still easily afford way more back then than could be done on a comparable income (or even 2) now.

Like I said above, we lacked nothing. Our family was fairly typical. There were those richer, and yes there were welfare families too, but most of my friends/peers had similar economic situations at home. Most were 1 income families.
We got 10 speeds for Christmas, guitars, etc.

[LivingAlmostLarge]

Sounds like a middle class lifestyle. I like PP didn't have any of those things in the 80s. But I didn't grow up middle class.

I think that middle class like Debbie described it was much easier in the 60s, 70s, and even 80s. I had many classmates and friends now who talk about everything they had. And the majority were 1 income families.

So was I, but for some reason we had it harder. No idea why. Guess my mom didn't earn as much. Anyway though most of my friends moms didn't work and yes it wasn't cushy but it was nice life.

And yes PP I rode around in a bassinet. I also did not have a carseat really, and we had one car. Drive till it died. Dying cars was a normal thing in the family.

[ScrimpAndSave]

My parents both worked. I was born in in 1980, but I had siblings that were 14,16 and 17 years older than me. My parents had me much later. My dad was an engineer...I don't know how much he made, but I think it was an average salary. My mom became an RN when I was 6 and worked night hours. Before that, she was an LPN. They instilled in me from the time that I was tiny that they didn't owe anyone a dime and they paid cash for everything they owned (other than the house).

They bought our beautiful house in 1973 for $41,000. They paid it off in 5 years. My dad said that he was really nervous because the mortgage was $100 a month!

My parents worked very hard. My mom died suddenly in 2004. She was diagnosed with uterine cancer and dead in 8 weeks. My dad retired in 2006...and I think he has about $500,000 liquid plus the house that is worth around $350,000. He's pretty comfortable (I think).

I am currently a teacher making about $50,000 a year. My salary increases about $7,000-$8,000 per year (as per contract). My fiance is graduating from law school in May 2009 and we have $120,000 in student loans to pay. I am saving every dime I can for a downpayment on a home. I do think we need two incomes at this point to pay off his student loans and to pay for a mortgage on a house. He is only making around $42,000 out of school.

We will see how it goes...like I said, I am saving every penny I can...

[DebbieL]

That's exactly what it was - a middle class lifestyle. And we weren't upper middle class at all - we were probably lower middle class. This was just normal when I was growing up. I stick with my opinion that this doesn't exist (at least where I live) anymore on one income. It is very difficult even on two decent incomes to come close to the life my parents were able to give us on one income. I cannot stress enough - my dad was no professional or highly paid earner.

[PrincessPerky]

Well there you have it, I am inherently biased..I had none of the 'stuff' then, but now I do, so to me it is hard to think of economy as being worse.

I am having trouble with the 'avg' income chart

according to the chart the average in the 2000 was less than 30K, but according to Wiki, the average in 2007 was 50K Wiki household income

even the Median per person was 35K for gals and 45K for guys..so well above theirs. are all the incomes skewed or just the 00's? (or maybe Wiki is skewed)

I really don't know what my parents made (though I know it was not consistent-I believe that was the main problem) but I know I make between the median and mean (overtime depending) for America, at various times I can guess less than mean?

In 1972, disposable personal income was determined to be $4,129; $19,385 in 2005 dollars. In 2005, disposable personal income was, however, $27,640, a 43% increase

Also from the wiki article.... if the disposable income is going up, why are folks claiming to have less?

there is also a handy chart showing the 1973 mean income as equal to 37K (03 dollars) with mean 2003 = to 43K. seems an increase if not huge. what are we doing with the extra 6K a year?

I gather some changes have occurred since the charts in Wiki, has it really been as much as that other chart shows?

I found personal income wiki chart

[DebbieL]

Those numbers are not realistic (at least where I'm from). I have seen many articles on how the disposable income today is far less than what my parents (and their generation) had on one income.

My dad probably made around $4000/$5000 a year in early 70s. He was able to support our family of 7, pay off a house in about 6 years, build an addition and a basement on the house, buy new cars (cash), live below their means and have savings, go away each year with the family, etc. He was not a high earner (even for those times).

By around 1980 I would say our household income was probably about 30K or so.

Because my parents were mortgage free from the time I was around 7 years old (1978), I got the expensive guitars, trips to Disney, Hawaii, etc. Money was never a problem in our house.

My dad retired in 1991. I doubt if he was earning more than 40k by then. His pension is more than what he earned when he retired. That is another thing of the past for most of us. I certainly don't have a pension coming to me other than CPP (our version of SS, but our maximum monthly payment is far lower than yours in the US - I think the most you can get is currently around $800/month and that's if you earned the maximum amount to contribute for enough years).

DH and I make about 80k or so and cannot afford that lifestyle. We cannot afford to buy a house here (even the worst dump imaginable in a horrible area would be 375-400K or so, and it would be a tear down house). We live in a 2 bedroom apartment that we rent. My parents had a 1/3 acre lot in town.

PS - I just plugged my dad's approximate income in 1971 (when he bought their house for 14K) into an inflation calculator. It would be about 20,700 in 2007 dollars according to the calculator. Their 14K house would be just under 71K in 2007 dollars (a house like theirs on that size lot would sell for over 500K in 2007). I sure would love to be able to buy a house for that!

[LivingAlmostLarge]

I dunno. But my mom earned very little in the 70s. I know though my aunts and uncles and friends families didn't work and had nicer lifestyles than they do now.

People could afford homes, they could have one income. I dunno. Like you PP I know I'm majorly well off, or at least I feel that way.

My in-laws my MIL worked nights at the post office so they would have 2 incomes but no daycare. So they were financially able to buy things my mom NEVER could afford. They vacationed annually, they had a video camera in 1977 so I can watch my DH as a baby, and they even mentioned it was like $5 to develop the movies!

It crazy, their home was $20k 1975 Canada and my mom's was $27k in Hawaii 1973. So I don't have a clue.

[Like2Plan]

In 1972, disposable personal income was determined to be $4,129; $19,385 in 2005 dollars. In 2005, disposable personal income was, however, $27,640, a 43% increase

Also from the wiki article.... if the disposable income is going up, why are folks claiming to have less?

there is also a handy chart showing the 1973 mean income as equal to 37K (03 dollars) with mean 2003 = to 43K. seems an increase if not huge. what are we doing with the extra 6K a year?

In 1972, my Dad was working at a job that provided a pension, he also had 100% medical coverage. Today, it is more common to have these two significant costs to have to be covered with that remaining disposable income by the employee.

[Snave]

BINGO! My point exactly. A great many people "need" two incomes to support a certain lifestyle. Were we happy and comfortable in the 70s and 80s? Absolutely. We had everything we really needed and a few things we wanted. Do we live that way today? Not a chance. Could we? Sure.

For some reason this quote reminds me of the movie the Brady Bunch where they were still living in that 70's, but it was actually the year 2000 or sometime around then. I agree with your point. However, I would argue that there were not as many "wants" in the 70's and 80's as there are today. Cell phones were not common, PC's were just coming about, etc... I do realize that these are technically "wants," but I would say that because of technological advances, the line between want and need has blurred some. Look at all of us on our computers. This is not technically a need, but I would say that someone growing up without some computer skills or basic knowledge of a computer and the internet is at an extreme disadvantage in our society. As for the cell phone. It's not a need, but when my daughter (which I don't have, but helps prove my point) is out on a date with her high school boyfriend, that want becomes a need. Now, the 60" plasma, that is another story!

[moneybags]

That's exactly what it was - a middle class lifestyle. And we weren't upper middle class at all - we were probably lower middle class. This was just normal when I was growing up. I stick with my opinion that this doesn't exist (at least where I live) anymore on one income. It is very difficult even on two decent incomes to come close to the life my parents were able to give us on one income. I cannot stress enough - my dad was no professional or highly paid earner.

I think money management plays a big part. My parents both worked, but due to poor money management, we grew up poor. They always had car payments, credit card debt, etc., and I never got a trip to Disney . For them, even with 2 incomes, in the "olden" days, it didn't work well. DH & I live nicer on 1 income - no car payments, no credit card debts, and nice trips for the us & the kids.

[LivingAlmostLarge]

Debbie I don't think it exists where I live and grew up either. I think that people want to say it's easy to live a middle class life on one income but circumstances are way different.

[cptacek]

Have you guys thought of moving? There are more affordable places to live and if it was important to you to live off of one income, somewhere else may be the ticket.

[LivingAlmostLarge]

Cptacek, absolutely! We will be moving within the next 4 year solely because of cost of living. We are hoping to move to a cheaper area. Our plan was to live where we are for education, then make a decision based on raising a family, cost of living, and job prospects.

We realize the cost of living is too high for one income and thus are trying to make changes. It is a long term plan and thus I realize we made a sacrifice now for later. But it is a personal choice and for us we are very content knowing it's a temporary situation where we live.

Most people we talk to like living in the area. They don't mind both parents working to make ends meet. They enjoy the lifestyle. We don't.

Sadly when we tell our friends what we are doing and why they don't get it. They haven't ever thought about a cheaper cost of living and how it affects your lifestyle. They've never considered not working one parent because it's so unaffordable. And they've never realize that when starter homes begin at $750k it's not realistic to raise a family on 1 income but that is not reality elsewhere. That homes on average cost $175k.

Where we want to move too, I think single family home start at $400k. Not cheap but it's a cheaper cost of living than where we are at. So it's better.

[disneysteve]

However, I would argue that there were not as many "wants" in the 70's and 80's as there are today.

I hear this argument a lot but I don't think it is true. The wants have just changed. Someone mentioned buying a $600 VCR. My dad was always into gadgets, liked to have the fun new thing. We were among the first to have a VCR (Betamax back then). Before that, we were one of the first to have color television. Then it was the stereo or the portable cassette player. Then the Walkman came out. Of course, there was always the hot toy at the holidays. My dad always drove a Cadillac. My friends used to think it was the coolest thing when we picked them up and we had power windows. We had a pool table in our basement. There have always been plenty of wants to spend your money on.

I think the difference is that today, many of the luxury items and wants are things people have convinced themselves are actually needs. Cell phones are a prime example. Virtually nobody NEEDS a cell phone. Are they good to have? Are they useful in an emergency? Are they a great way to keep in touch? Absolutely. But you don't really need it. It is a pure luxury item, a convenience. Years ago, I think luxuries were more recognized as such.