14 Eagles Scam ?

[bamarella]

Sorry, I have foot in mouth disease, so....



Here, you are blindly lumping all these different gambling and investing concepts together as though they belong as one. Maybe it does, maybe it doesn't, depending on the context that you are not providing....
No..The point is they have the same end result and are LEGAL but should they be? People do these things and they finance the payoff!!


That is not true. If it can be proven that something is a bad idea, then it's best not to take your chances with it. If you must take a chance with something, it would be best to take your chances with something that is a good idea.

All through history there have been those who have taken the opposing side! and still the airplane was invented, the light bulb was invented and the automobile has evolved to what it is today and man would Never have made it to the moon listening to the NAY-SAYERS. In other words someone has taken the idea on the concept that it can work and has succeeded where someone said it could not be done!


Again, that's not true. Depending on context, I would call some of those activities a scam.

And again, for the record, I've never out-right said that pyramid schemes are necessarily scams either; merely that they are unsustainable models. They're only scams if they are not being entirely upfront and honest about what they are... which sadly is almost always... including 14 Eagles.

Are we talking about unsustainable model name or can the concept really work or not?



Although I have no place to talk when it comes to spelling and grammar, the correct term is "lose", not "loose".

OK so I'm into my message and not rechecking my spelling!!! THANKS for bringing it to my attention. I'll probably have a few more...so get ready! :-)

In any case, although it's true that they only require $6 from you to start out, it is indeed taking a chance, because you just don't know for sure if 14 others will deliver on their promise of delivering that untraceable cash back to you.

That is why it is by invitation ONLY! I know people of HIGH INTEGRITY and THAT is who I chose to invite. And ONLY people of that caliber.

As such, it isn't entirely correct to see this as the power of "duplication". It is the power of "hoping others will play along this same game that you play". This "duplication" idea is one of many marketing tools they use to talk you into this program. But here, I will tell you the truth: Real life results may vary.

Just as in ANY betting venture!!


You are quite wrong about this. I have indeed changed my mind about a great many things in the past, and I am certainly not opposed to remain open-minded about this as well.

Still, despite keeping an open mind, hearing the pitch, and reading over their own program materials, I have still come to the conclusion that this is not that different from most other pyramid schemes, and sooner or later, it too is doomed to fail.

Is that the same as a personal opinion and calculated guess?

Now, I ask you. Are YOU able to keep an open mind? Are YOU capable of seeing the argument against it, and consider that, maybe just maybe, pyramid schemes in general are a bad idea?

I know that there are Pyramid Schemes that are devestating and not just a general bad idea but a BAD IDEA! BUT $6???? I know that there is something out there based on this concept that will work! I have been around long enough to know that there are MANY exceptions to the rule and it is NOT open-minded not to see that THIS concept based on a $6 investment is encouragingly afforadable to anyone will to take the chance!! And if a leap on faith is taken in some instances it can be beneficial.



Yes, it's true we take risks every day. But, just because you can and do take risks, that still doesn't mean some things a good idea. So, the point isn't about taking risks at all. The point is about making smart decisions.

Starting a business is a risk. Thomas Edison took 1,000 failures before he succeeded. Can you really say that all his failures to get that one success was a BAD decision. I'm a glass is half fuller....I know and respect the fact that there are many "glass is half empty-ers" out there! The Dreamers make the world turn and the Logical make sure it keeps on turning! We have got to have both to keep it balanced.


Why is this the only hope you have? And why do you have to pray to win? Isn't it better to simply make smart choices with your money? You don't have to be a millionaire to do that.

Because I have worked two jobs at one time with a degree that has nothing to do with my degree. I'm at the end of my road and have played by the rules and still can only afford to do the things I have to do and very little of the things I want to do! You see my 401 and Stock Investments depleted with the market crash! I Pray that I will win because that may put me one step ahead to be able to help my grandson with his tuition or my Grand Daughter with childcare. Smart choices....are the same as survival choices to me at 62. And I DONT want to be a Millionaire!

Desperation can be a great motivator. There's nothing wrong with that. However, it in and of itself does not make for a good business plan.

A Dream can be an INSPIRATION if you need it to be!

Finally, you can always just ignore us. We, the detractors, I'm sure, can't be invited into 14 Eagles anyway. Don't you find it odd that it's private-invite only? Why do you suppose that? Why don't they make it open for anyone to sign up and join online? Wouldn't they make a lot more money that way? That doesn't raise any suspicion for you?

Yes...It makes since that it is by invitation only. This can only work IF the participants possess HIGH INTEGRITY! ANYONE cannot fall into that category! I know people of High Integrity and that is who I would chose to participate! Greed will ALWAYS be the downfall of ANY Organization. THAt is exactly why 14 Eagles apppealed to me! They don't want just ANY body for the sake of a LOT more money!

I'm out! I might sound stupid to you! And you may think this is a bad business choice but of all the PYRAMIDS out there I took a chance on this one! and I helping all those I Love with the proceeds! God Speed and say a prayer for us!

[jpg7n16]

Yes...It makes since that it is by invitation only.

Yes - because like all true charitable organizations, you can only do good to others if you are one of a select few who has been invited.

Greed will ALWAYS be the downfall of ANY Organization. THAt is exactly why 14 Eagles apppealed to me!

...Because it can make me rich!!

And you may think this is a bad business choice but of all the PYRAMIDS out there I took a chance on this one! and I helping all those I Love with the proceeds! God Speed and say a prayer for us!

I'm sure the family members of drug dealers like the nice houses they can buy.

It doesn't make it any less illegal - but hey, at least their loved ones are cared for.


fyi - pyramid schemes are illegal. Just like selling drugs. So of all the illegal activities, you have chosen the most noble of them.

[Jpony]

bamarella, you're missing the point, someone has to be on the bottom, giving money to those above them. And if there were an infinite number of people in the world to participate it would work, but there aren't so it won't. Just do the math. If you are the flock leader and level 1 is the 14 people sending you $2 each, they would need 14 people below them 14 X14 = 196 that's level 2. For level 3 it's 14 X 196 = 2744 level four, 2744 X 14 = 38,416. Then level five, 38,416 X 14 = 537,824 forget about adding the ones you already have, lets even assume they've all rejoined. to get to level 6 you have around 7.5 million people in just one flock. Do you know 7 1/2 million people that have HIGH INTEGRITY?
And honestly, I don't even think it goes any further then like one of the other posters said, the three people that you send your $6 to are the same 3 people that everyone else that falls for it sends their $6 to. It's easier to scam 100,000 people out of $16 each then a couple out of a million. Did I mention, they charge $10 for you to set up a website to get on the list? I read that somewhere in there convoluted ramblings about being set up to potentially receive the money. These guys never say you will ever get anything back, just the possibility of it.

[Broken Arrow]

Yes...It makes since that it is by invitation only. This can only work IF the participants possess HIGH INTEGRITY! ANYONE cannot fall into that category!

But... but... I have high integrity. I have never let greed dictate my financial decisions....

Plus, I'm not sure how this "charity" being invitation-only equates to integrity.

If anything, couldn't you say that by investing my own time and energy to warn others about a poor financial scheme that might also be illegal be a sign of integrity? I don't profit from any of this.

[Broken Arrow]

I don't understand. Why is there a need to call someone who disagrees with you ignorant and jumping to conclusions? What does it say about somebody who makes such an illogical jumping of the conclusions in the first place, and ironically enough, then turns around and accuses others of doing the same? To be honest, all that's going to do is hurt your own credibility.

I mean, wouldn't it be easier to simply say, "14 Eagles works, and here is why:" And then here is where you would explain the structure and how it would be sustainable and such.

But I'm not seeing that. In fact, the link you gave (my original blog entry) and referring to The Blessing, who uses a similar derogatory tactic as yourself, except with a lot more words and irrelevant tangents such as taxes and the Constitution... well, it still doesn't make your case.

We've already shown that it's a pyramid scheme. We've already shown how pyramid schemes do not work. Why then, is this so difficult to grasp?

As for it appearing to be a matrix, it only appears so because existing members are continually cycling money to each other. However, the simple fact is, for the existing members to profit (which is the very design of 14 Eagles), fresh funds has to be pumped in from somewhere, and that somewhere is from new recruits.

And Obama fitting into this somehow? Are you serious?

[jpg7n16]

Yes...just as someone mentioned above: "Pyramid Schemes are Illegal"...the dirty little secret here for all these miserable people who want to bash something that they know nothing about is that they are JUMPING TO THE CONCLUSION that the 14 Eagles is a Pyramid scheme because it's just too easy to conclude that...If you look at the members who invited one another to this community on paper, or in a "matrix form", that matrix resembles a "pyramid". Oh, those simple-minded....they make such fools of themselves and I am embarrassed for you.

Please inform us oh complex-minded one: why then are they called pyramid schemes in the first place?


From the FTC website: "PYRAMID SCHEMES"

How Pyramid Schemes Operate
Let's look at how a pyramid scheme operates from three points of view: the potential investor, the promoter or con artist, and the victim. Many pyramid schemes will present a payout formula or matrix much like this one...

This example illustrates what is known as a three by four matrix. Each investor pays $500 to the promoter and is told to build a "downline" by recruiting three new members, who then each should recruit three more members. The investor is told that he will be paid $150 for each of the three members whom he enlists at the first level. The investor is also promised a $30 commission for each recruit at the next three levels. Thus, the investor should receive commissions for four levels of recruits below him, each of whom must recruit three more members, hence the name -- a three by four matrix.

And we're the fools...

[GrimJack]

I like how s/he tries to bring in the conservatives by bashing Obama; then there is the assumption of superiority followed by denigration of the intelligence of any who disagree. The poor sap must have lost a bunch of money.

I dropped a dime with the FBI using what info I could get from 'whois'

[Broken Arrow]

Huh, I guess so. I don't see your posts, but I still see posts that other supporters have posted. What does that really say? Is it true that the forum is trying block people from learning about "this great community, to get the real facts." or is it more likely that you have went into some inappropriate tangent, which by policy, will get your posts removed?

Your post is once again just more of the same opinionated dribble about how we're wrong and you're right, and you're patriotic and we're not, and you're freedom lovers and we're haters.... I just don't understand how people can go about making such logical fallacies? All because we disagree on this one program?

Edit: OOPS! Believer's latest rant got deleted as well, making my response non-sensical. But please see DS's response below mine for forum policy.

[disneysteve]

For the record, Jeffrey did not delete the posts by Gifting Believer. I did. And I didn't do it because of any free speech issues. I did it because he/she was insulting other members of this forum, calling people ignorant, lazy, fools and immoral. That is not acceptable "free speech" at this site, or any site I participate in.

If you want to come on here and discuss the merits of this system, go right ahead. But you may not come on here and verbally attack and harass other posters.

[jpg7n16]

...Everyone should open their eyes and see what is REALLY going on here. All these people can do is try to scare you and instill fear in you to steer you away from the most benevolent, plentiful, Christian-inspired, and patriotic act available to anyone who seeks for something better....

Christian inspired huh? Why do you need to get something back for your giving? Isn't it about how much you can make? If it was about how much you can give, why do you get anything back at all??

How can you benefit others by getting more back than you give??

Benevolent (Benevolent: | Define Benevolent: at Dictionary.com): doing good or giving aid to others, rather than making profit; charitable

But love your enemies, and do good, and lend, expecting nothing in return; and your reward will be great, and you will be sons of the Most High; for He Himself is kind to ungrateful and evil men.
-Luke 6:35

Maybe you should use a dictionary and/or a Bible next time you make claims like these.


If 14 Eagles were a charity where people gave and recieved nothing in return, and recruited others to give to those in need without expecting anything in return - I would have no problem with it.

But when they use "charity" and "giving" as a disguise to cover up what they are in fact doing - creating a pyramid scheme to earn income from "gifts" - that is worth speaking out against.



Oh and someone removed your post because when I first read it, I saw you raving about how good this scam is and you included a link in the middle of your post - which I thought was a link to your personal website, so I reported your 1st post. Then when I read it closer - I saw it was a link to BA's blog, but it had already been reported. Sorry about that. It was likely removed because of me. (ETA: Or maybe DS did it )

But not to hide what you were saying - I'm glad your idiotic statements are out there for those considering 14 Eagles to see. I thought it was a SPAM post.



You still haven't answered any questions BA or myself have asked you concerning that intial post.

[Broken Arrow]

Amazing! A double post that STILL does NOT explain why 14 Eagles works! But instead... just another long-winded diatribe about why we're ignorant, only this time, using the dictionary to somehow confirm this? Wow, I hope at least one of those posts don't get deleted, just so people will see why you get deleted in the first place.

And yes, my alias is indeed appropriate for me. That's why I chose it, though I suspect we're not seeing the same page in terms of context.

But seriously, please just explain why 14 Eagles work. I've already explained my side several times, both in the blog as well as here. Can you please just answer this one question?

How is 14 Eagles sustainable?

[Broken Arrow]

Oh look, how cute...the administrator made me a "$ Saving Kindergartner"...hmm...it's obvious who's in control here, manipulating this forum. You want to see a legitimate 2-sided argument? Your looking in the wrong place here.

OMG, every poster on here starts out as that. It's just a forum default. There is no conspiracy against you. Relax, please.

[Broken Arrow]

Well, here it is America… look at the above post from Mr. “GrimJack” (see above)…he is “dropping a dime with the FBI using what info he can about me” to turn me in for exercising my constitutional right to assemble with a community of people to share with one another.

Wow, this is just too good.... Now you're accusing of someone collaborating with the FBI simply because they disagree with you?

[Joan.of.the.Arch]

My state attorney general's office does have a history of prosecuting such pyramid schemes as they are illegal here. They need not wait for a federal investigation or federal prosecution. If 14Eagles has wheedled its way into Missouri, I think I can be fairly sure that the MO Attorney General will take action.

Does anyone else think that the Atty General in their own state will look into it if 14Eagles is collecting money there? There is probably a free phone hotline, internet complaint registration, and mail complaint registration easily available. You can even just send a simple letter to the prosecutor's office, no form needed.

Also if your state has a separate consumer protection agency, you could inquire there. If your attorney general or consumer protection agency has already looked into 14Eagles they will probably have information to share. If they have not yet, you can check back with the agencies later. While you are there, sign up for any consumer protection & fraud information newsletter/email letter they may have. As a citizen, it is somewhat satisfying to see evidence of those offices doing their jobs, I must say.

[jpg7n16]

Believer - you say we're ignorant, but give no evidence as to why. So since ignorance means without knowledge, let's have a little quiz shall we?

1. What is a pyramid scheme?
2. Why is it called a pyramid scheme?
3. Why are pyramid schemes illegal?
4. Does the 14 Eagles organization fit the Federal Trade Comission's description of a pyramid scheme?
5. Are potential members ever shown how much they stand to personally gain from this "charitable" program?
6. Why did the 14 Eagles organization choose to call them "gifts"?
7. Can you participate in the program without making one of these "gifts"?
8. How does it benefit others for me to get more back that I give in?
9. What would a true charity look like?
10. Does the Red Cross ever suggest to it's donors how much they stand to financially gain by donating?

I think that's a good start.


I mean you're not ignorant of these issues, are you? Then surely you will not have any trouble answering my little quiz - if you really know the answers.

And if you don't answer - we'll just assume that you don't know. (and by your own admission are therefore ignorant)