14 Eagles Scam ?

[questions]

Can you tell me if 14 Eagles is a scam? A friend of mine at church is encouraging me to join as a way to help others in need, but I can't make heads or tails about how it works. Can you tell me if 14 Eagles is legit or is 14 Eagles a scam? How can I tell if it is a scam or not? It only costs $6 so I am thinking I should give it a try just in case it is real because I don't want to miss out. I'd appreciate your advice and what you think.

[jeffrey]

Is 14 eagles a scam? Yes. I think that Broken Arrow from these forums in his blog has put together an excellent post as to why 14 Eagles is a scam and I am borrowing from his post:

In order for the system to work, you have to get a lot of new people to join and donate their money, and the magnitude is frightening.

For one thing, it will take up to 14 donations on the first level (hence the name 14 Eagles) just for you to complete level 1. That's roughly 4.6 people required to make the total of 14 donations needed. Let's just say 5 people.

Let me say this again. For you, one person, to make the initial profit of only $1(!), you need 5 people below you. 5 people.

And how many does it require to complete level 2? 25 people. It takes 5 Level 2 gifters, each requiring their own 5 people's worth of level 1 donations to reach level 2 in order for them to gift YOU enough level 2 donations to go to level 3. 25 people.

And how many is required to reach level 3? 125 people. And it just keeps going like that...

It really doesn't matter what 14 Eagles calls its system (they do this to make it sound,like it is something it is not). They try to make it sound legitimate by calling it "14 Eagles gifting" or "14 Eagles cash gifting" or something like that. It doesn't matter what it is called - the 14 Eagles gifting program is nothing more than a ponzi scheme that you want to avoid.

[Broken Arrow]

Here's a relevant quote lifted from the 14 Eagles FAQ:

Is this a pyramid?

Not at all. A pyramid is associated with an investment scheme, a company, or a business. We are not a company, just a private sharing club.

So, is everybody clear on this? 14 Eagles says they are not a pyramid scheme because they're saying the definition of a pyramid is an "investment", "company", or "business".

Now, here is the SEC's description of what a pyramid scheme is, and here's a quote from the first paragraph:

In the classic "pyramid" scheme, participants attempt to make money solely by recruiting new participants into the program. The hallmark of these schemes is the promise of sky-high returns in a short period of time for doing nothing other than handing over your money and getting others to do the same.

Notice that the SEC does not specify whether or not a pyramid scheme has to be an "investment", "company", or "business". The fact that 14 Eagles claims to be a charity organization is completely irrelevant as to whether or not it is also in fact structured as a pyramid scheme.

So yes, despite their claims to the contrary, 14 Eagles is indeed a pyramid scheme.

The only difference between 14 Eagles and a classic pyramid scheme is that, rather than having some kind business opportunity with the potential to make lots of money, you are doing this under the good name of charity... with the potential to make lots of money. Again, the hook is the only difference. Traditionally, you part your money under the guise of a must-have business opportunity. With 14 Eagles, you part your money under the guise of good will and charity.

[14 eagles]

How can you have an opinion about 14 eagles before you even try it? You say 14 eagles scam even before trying it. How can you know anything about it when you haven't even tried it? I have tried 14 eagles and I am making lots and lots of money. Everyone that I have recruited is making lots and lots of money. You just don't understand how 14 Eagles works. You can't be trusted because you aren't even willing to give it a try. You formed your opinion before getting all the facts. You can only get the facts by doing and participating so you can't know anything you are talking about. If you tried 14 eagles, you would quickly change your mind because you would know that everything you ASSUMED is wrong. Unless you are willing to try it, you can't give an educated opinion on it.

[GrimJack]

How can you have an opinion about 14 eagles before you even try it? You say 14 eagles scam even before trying it. How can you know anything about it when you haven't even tried it? I have tried 14 eagles and I am making lots and lots of money. Everyone that I have recruited is making lots and lots of money. You just don't understand how 14 Eagles works. You can't be trusted because you aren't even willing to give it a try. You formed your opinion before getting all the facts. You can only get the facts by doing and participating so you can't know anything you are talking about. If you tried 14 eagles, you would quickly change your mind because you would know that everything you ASSUMED is wrong. Unless you are willing to try it, you can't give an educated opinion on it.

If you are making lots of money, you have to declare it to the IRS as income - if you have some way of getting around that, I hope you have it in writing cuz the 'black helicopters' are warming up now.

[jpg7n16]

How can you have an opinion about 14 eagles before you even try it? You say 14 eagles scam even before trying it. How can you know anything about it when you haven't even tried it? I have tried 14 eagles and I am making lots and lots of money. Everyone that I have recruited is making lots and lots of money. You just don't understand how 14 Eagles works. You can't be trusted because you aren't even willing to give it a try. You formed your opinion before getting all the facts. You can only get the facts by doing and participating so you can't know anything you are talking about. If you tried 14 eagles, you would quickly change your mind because you would know that everything you ASSUMED is wrong. Unless you are willing to try it, you can't give an educated opinion on it.

So how do you feel about using heroin? Cocaine? Hiring a prostitute? Murdering someone?

Are these things bad for you?

I mean... how can you say these things are bad if you've never tried them?? Unless you are willing to try them, you can't give an educated opinion on any of them.


Foolproof logic that is.

[TheStreetCeo]

So how do you feel about using heroin? Cocaine? Hiring a prostitute? Murdering someone?

Are these things bad for you?

I mean... how can you say these things are bad if you've never tried them?? Unless you are willing to try them, you can't give an educated opinion on any of them.

Damn! That was strong! Apparently you have silenced 14 scams

[tbean14]

I don't Get it People

Here is the deal with 14 Eagles - WE ARE HELPING EACHOTHER - If everybody is integris and moves thru the system - it is an incredible BLESSING and one to have fun with and taken seriously.
I don't care what anybody calls it!

A Vision for Debts

We envision a world free of debt of all kinds; a world where all debt has been forgiven, all usury stopped, every slate wiped clean, every heart opened and mind freed because people everywhere are giving and sharing with each other.

We see a system of exchange based on abundance instead of encumbrance, equality instead of slavery, conscience instead of competition, opportunity instead of obligation, gratitude instead of greed. We see all peoples, everywhere, enjoying equal access to all good things, and with this comes a blossoming in the soul of humanity such as has never before been seen throughout the whole of time.


Keep the Vision

[Broken Arrow]

I hate to burst someone's bubble, but while the rhetoric is heart-warming, I'm afraid the very nature of a pyramid scheme is that only so many will benefit from the vast majority. Regardless of whether you yourself have actually made money or not is beside the point. In the end, some may benefit, but many, many more will get hurt. That is the truth about pyramids.

For those who truly want to give, there are many wonderful (and reputable) charities out there. Some here have given to Kiva, for example, and I myself have given to the American Cancer Society. And for those who wants to pursue the entrepreneurial path, or generate passive income, there are plenty of legitimate options out there as well.

Do what you wish of course, but just be careful with pyramid schemes such as 14 Eagles. From what I've seen, their rhetoric is not consistent with reality.

[jpg7n16]

For anyone's who's interested, here's the FAQ, which it took me a while to find I might add: New Page 2

The original question as posed by the OP was, "is this a scam?" Pyramid schemes are scams.

And when you have sites, such as 14 Eagles - How it works

and they show you a little diagram so you can get the mental picture... and that diagram is in the shape of.... a pyramid. That's why they call them pyramid schemes.



What you have here are people setting up a scheme to profit from the good intentions of others. They use charity as a disguise, but what's really going on is likely something altogether different. A true charitable cause should be able to answer the following questions:

-Who are you benefitting?
-What global problem are you solving?
-How in the world does it benefit others to get more back than what you give?

For the love of money is a root of all sorts of evil.
1 Timothy 6:10a




Let me set up a complicated system based on getting dozens of people to sign up and voluntarily gift money at random intervals, so that no one knows when a gift has actually been sent or not - and I'll have set up my own cash-cow system to receive gifts from 1000's whenever I need the extra cash.

Edited to add: Just to be clear, I am absolutely implying that whoever set up this organization uses their own name to take gifts from people who assume they are giving to other users. I am implying that I believe the creators of the 14 eagles site are taking money from its users. And due to the lack of transparency within the organization, I expect that they will never show any gift records to prove otherwise.

[katey]

14 Eagles is not a "scam" or "pyramid". The owner, Randy Mathews is not taking gifts from people other the team he has built. There is no admin fee. 14 Eagles does work and you do not have to invite "alot" of people. It's a 2 by 2, meaning you get two and they get two. If they need help, then help them.. We are here to help each other. I think 14 Eagles is an activity of integrity and I'm proud to be involved. If it doesn't work for some it's because they are not working. No activity is a free ride. Your job is a "scam" and "pyramid" since your boss is making the majority of the money. If you are not involved then you do not have the credibility to imply negative comments on any activity...14 Eagles Works!!!

[jpg7n16]

katey - please check out Pyramid scheme - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

look in the middle under "the 8-ball model"

and please inform us how that is any different than what you just described

[Broken Arrow]

14 Eagles is not a "scam" or "pyramid".

Uh, but it is a pyramid. It's already been explained earlier in this thread. Please feel free to scroll up.

To simply state that it is not without any proof or explanation as to how it is not won't help your case.

Your job is a "scam" and "pyramid" since your boss is making the majority of the money.

I don't think this holds water. I mean... wow, do I even need to explain this?

Look, in a normal job, money flows downward from the employer to their employees. Your boss may make more, but he probably works a lot more too. That part is irrelevant though. You work, your employer pays you. That's the deal. And if you work hard, you may even have the potential to move up in to management positions. How is that a scam?

In a pyramid scheme, money flows upwards from below. In the same context, the employee pays his boss in the hopes that many more will join below you and pay you in return. In such a system, the vast majority will eventually lose out and only the minority towards the top will profit. I've never gone so far as to say that it's an out-right scam, BUT unlike normal business models, a pyramid scheme is simply unsustainable. Sooner or later, most will lose out.

If you are not involved then you do not have the credibility to imply negative comments on any activity.

Now, see, this sort of claim has already been rebutted many times, and yet, some will continue to regurgitate it. Why? I don't get it.

Please understand that experience alone does not always equate to wisdom. That and there is also wisdom in the deliberate lack of certain experiences. I don't have to do cocaine, stick my hand in a fire, or join a pyramid scheme to know it's a bad idea.

14 Eagles Works!!!

I've never said that pyramid schemes couldn't work for some. But then, I've never denied that ponzi schemes, con games, and bank robberies can't work for some either. But that's not the point. The point is, just because something is working so far does not automatically make it a good idea. If I sell cocaine this weekend, and assuming I haven't been caught yet, can I come back and say that drug dealing is a good idea because it's working so far?

[LRP18]

I heard about 14 Eagles from a trusted friend. I listened to the conference call and reviewed the information. There are several key points that need to be considered, especially by the people who are involved or thinking about participating. The IRS code that they quote does NOT cover gifting programs. Gifting programs are designed to be income generators. That is exactly how this program is laid out, "Turn $6.oo into $5735 in 6 weeks." The IRS code only covers gifts, pure and simple. Presents received where there is no expectation of a return of any kind. In the gifting program, you are required (expected) to take a portion of the money received and send it to more people. You are also making and taking a profit on the original $6.00 you gift. According to the IRS, you owe tax dollars on this profit REGARDLESS OF WHAT THEY SAY. Call the IRS if you don't believe it. Secondly, the way this particular program works, there is a great deal of bookkeeping involved. You need to set aside a certain amount and regift it to the names provided, and gift an additional amount....12 times over, plus you need to track the "gifts" you are receiving. While the work is minimal given the potential to grow your "gift" by 95588%, it is cumbersome and confusing, and most people will not keep up with it. So, ultimately, you will not realize your return.

From a spiritual perspective, this is wrong, wrong, wrong!!! Perhaps the spiritual leaders of this organization are deceived just like everyone who chooses to participate, but true gifting is a way to bless others. There should be no expectation of a return. The leaders are setting up an expectation of a return by telling you up front that you can "Turn $6.00 into $5735 in 6 weeks." They are also misusing the IRS tax code, which is deception, and encouraging people to lie about their income by calling it a gift rather than profit. Furthermore, the whole management part of the 6 stages/18 steps is bondage! You become a slave to the program just like the Israelites were enslaved by the Egyptians. It is no coincidence that programs of this nature are called "pyramid schemes".

[disneysteve]

14 Eagles is not a "scam" or "pyramid".

katey - please check out Pyramid scheme - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

jpg, don't waste your time. The scum who promote these programs aren't going to come here and admit that they are ripping people off. And the suckers who are stupid enough to allow themselves to be ripped off aren't going to come bragging about it either. Let's just let this thread die a quiet death.