Let's talk health plans!

[Thrif-t]

Actually not true. There is a lot people like myself who have never had a hdhp except when we bought it ourselves. So we have no HSA. Our companies have always done HMO/PPO. We go with PPO. Need the freedom.

So personally I'd love a hdhp with no premium and my company putting money in. But it hasn't happened. I don't think it's going that way either.

I think to truly get obamacare or any insurance free market to work we have to decouple employment and health insurance. That will force everyone to go to the marketplace and make plans comepetitive. Isn't it something like 65% of people are covered by workplace plans?

If no one had a workplace plan then how would the markets really fair?

I totally agree with the bolded! Did you guys read about this? http://money.cnn.com/2018/01/30/news...nce/index.html

I'll be anxiously watching....

[TexasHusker]

I'll be anxiously watching....

I wouldn't get too anxious. It could be a little while.

[tripods68]

I'm all for Universal coverage if helps avoid people from bankruptcy due skyrockting health care cost and and from people dying unnessarily with or little preventive coverage.

[LivingAlmostLarge]

Universal coverage would be cheaper than what we have now. Yes say Oh it'll cost 5% of taxes. That's less than what we as consumer spend now. You can't argue otherwise. What we spend now on healthcare far outstrips every other country that is socialized including their taxes for healthcare. It can't be helped.

We just have a big mess that is so expensive and every politician is afraid of doing something.

What's the something? Either go socialized or go truly free market and strip all employer provided insurance. Let's go either way.

I'm happier with socialized but I'm equally interested in buying my own health insurance.

Why? Right now DH and I have PPO which is nice, but we'd love to try a HSA/HDHP and stash and extra $6650 tax free and invest it. And be allowed to buy our own insurance and never be tied to a job? Great. Let it rip.

Either choice would make retiring early very desirable for us. I think we'd be set.

[Radiohead1]

Employer provided of course. TH do you think that it would make costs more feasible if they uncoupled employement to medical and forced everyone to have to buy their own insurance? I'd be curious how it would affect free market.

Yes. Studies have shown that medical costs are so outrageous because the majority of people don't have a cost sharing aspect to their care (either they get employer sponsored insurance with reasonable deductibles or they get government sponsored healthcare through madicare or Medicaid).

It's the reason pharma reps/salespeople make incredible incomes. I'm not sure those should even be actual jobs.

[Radiohead1]

OK so understand you are asking the consummate capitalist this question

But my thoughts are as follows:

If employers want to continue to provide coverage through a group plan, similar to life and AD&D insurance, I've got no problem with that.

Everyone, even those belonging to a group, should be able to buy individual health insurance instead, if they so choose. It's America!

As for individual insurance, there are few players in the market any more, because ObummerCare made a bunch of unwieldy mandates that would render the plans unprofitable (putting it mildly) for insurance companies.

Example: No pre-existing condition exclusions. So...I'm perfectly healthy for two years, then I get cancer. I don't have ObummerCare, but I will sign up for it now! Can you imagine going without car insurance and then you total your car, and you call your insurance co. and say "I need insurance --- I just had a wreck?" They would laugh at you and hang up the phone. Yet this is precisely what ObummerCare mandates on health insurers. And guess what, no one wants to play any more!

Health insurance should be just like any other insurance - you buy the coverage that you WANT and can AFFORD. Understanding that if you are un-insured or under-insured, that hospital you stayed in can put a lien on everything you own!

Should basic health insurance be REQUIRED BY LAW? I think so! You're required to buy car and home insurance in most cases! But....all of these minimum copay and coinsurance requirements are ridiculous.

Minimum coverage:

100% insurance after the first $50,000 in expenditures. That means you're going to have to bust out some savings or go into debt for that first $50K, but at least it's affordable and you're covered from a catastrophe!

Now, many insurance co.s might offer $5K and $10K deductibles, and if you can afford that and want it, BY ALL MEANS BUY IT!

And furthering that point, if you are hell bent on a $10 copay every time you have a sniffle, and want all of your prescriptions paid for after a $10 copay, by all means, you should be able to spend half of what you make every month for that plan!

My individual insurance is a plan exempted from Obummercare. It costs our family around $600 a month. We pay for our own prescriptions, our own wellsness visits and flu and bronchitis visits. For anything else, once we hit $5K a year, the plan pays 100%.

If I could, I'd go with a $10K plan for even less money, but this one is pretty good. No frills. I don't want them or need them.

Obamacare intended to alleviate the "buy after you get sick" strategy with the individual mandate. Of course everyone on the opposite side of the aisle whined to high heavens.

Gotta protect them lobbyists.

Hope nobody in your family is ever struck with a pre-existing condition.

[Radiohead1]

So they don't have that kind of money, but they do have $2000 a month for Obummercare? Hmm.

Why not go the $50K route, pay $500 a month for your health insurance, and if and when you have a catastrophic claim for cancer, etc., you simply take out a home equity loan for the amount of the $50K that you haven't banked? That's going to be a lot less than the other $1500 per month.

Folks "don't have that kind of money" in large part because they are health insurance poor.

When we dropped Obummercare, we were paying $24K a year for premiums, plus another $10K or so before the insurance actually kicked in to any degree.

So the idea of a $50K deductible isn't as far fetched as one might think.

The idea of a $50k deductible is absolutely ridiculous. Take out a home equity loan every year you have a claim? You intentionally suggesting the collapse of the American economy?

People would just file bankruptcy like they (justifiably) do right now.

[Radiohead1]

Because that's how insurance work. People who are healthy have to subsidize the pool of people who aren't. That's also why there is coverage that not everyone uses. Like property taxes or car insurance. And maternity riders weren't even feasible really before. You couldn't be pregnant or get pregnant for 18 months before the rider kicked in.

And trust me you don't want to go back to pre-existing conditions being allowed. Everyone will have something eventually and it'll kick them off or be so expensive as to be unaffordable.

And Obamacare is the 1990s Republican plan in opposition to socialized government run healthcare. But what it's done is starting to change the conversation about healthcare being a right.

The declaration of independence and thr preamble to the constitution both establish healthcare as a right. Any conversation asserting otherwise is just asinine.

[Radiohead1]

Most of those tens of millions are being subsidized.

Anyone who is paying full freight for these things is dying.

You have to be kidding me. The only people paying "full freight" for exchange provided coverage have a very high income. It is just like taxation, it is a progressive system. Spare me with the "they're dying" junk.

What is your household income that you were paying $24k in premiums? In excess of $200k?

And I am suspicious about the basis of your claim. Second lowest cost silver plans didn't reach near that cost, unless you are approaching Medicare age. I would be floored if a bronze plan was even in that neighborhood.

You sound like just another person throwing out complete fallacies because you hate Obama and the Democratic party in general (but mostly you hate Obama).

[james.hendrickson]

Guys - mod warning here. We respect and appreciate RESPECTFUL debate about this important topic. We don't like personal attacks. If things get too hot, the thread will be locked for a cooling off period.

[Gailete]

I have been on Medicare for 12 years now. I also worked in the health care services as an RN. One of the things I know is that some tests are ordered to cover the doctor, and I don't mean this in a bad way, but it is a fact life. And there is more than one way at times to do a test.

When I went on MC early due to disability, I became very conscious of the costs of test and procedures. I know I paid into the system, but most of my friends and acquaintances are still working and pouring money into SS/MC. As a user of MC, I consider it my duty to not be frivolous with this insurance that has been granted me. I have been having horrible pain in my left wrists for weeks. Saw my doctor on Wens for something else and spoke to her about it. She ordered an x-ray. The next day before I had a chance to go get it, I got called in early (3 weeks) for a procedure. I was supposed to rest up following it. It is now Monday, and I didn't go for the x-ray yet. Why, with all the rest I was getting, my wrist was also getting rested and is pretty pain free right now. Why get an x-ray. I see my NP tomorrow and if she thinks I should, I will go get one, but otherwise, why spend the money, or why should MC and my supplemental insurance spend the money on an x-ray that seems to be of no purpose at this point. I have checked into some very expensive procedures and found that a sleep study that they wanted me to go in for wasn't going to show them squat as it was so far different from my lifestyle they wouldn't get a shred of usable information. Why should MC pay for a sleep study that I most likely wouldn't even sleep at?

I am not setting myself up as a perfect consumer, but I try to be conscious of the costs of all these different tests. More people need to do that. I was at a store one day when a boy got his finger pinched. It wasn’t bleeding, it wasn't discolored, it wasn’t swollen, and what did mom want to do? She wanted to take the kiddo to the ER! Obviously, she wasn't the one that would be footing the bill. We just have to use our heads. And discuss these decisions with your doctor. If you don't know why they ordered a test, talk to them until you do.

I believe that many of our health care costs, would go down significantly if people would just use their head and some common sense, but more and more common sense is lacking in our world.

Let me repeat, do not willy-nilly cancel appointments and procedures, but speak to your doctor about your concerns. My husband was on narcs and had to have a random drug screening. He also has BAD vision so when he signed for a $900 drug test, I just about fainted when I saw the bill. When I saw our doctor and told her, she about had a heart attack herself as she admitted that she could have ordered one for $50! She knew our financial situation too, so I think she felt especially bad. After that point I believe she did the cheaper test for all patients. If you are low on funds, tell your health care professional so they can find you a cheaper alternative.

[TexasHusker]

You have to be kidding me. The only people paying "full freight" for exchange provided coverage have a very high income. It is just like taxation, it is a progressive system. Spare me with the "they're dying" junk.

What is your household income that you were paying $24k in premiums? In excess of $200k?

And I am suspicious about the basis of your claim. Second lowest cost silver plans didn't reach near that cost, unless you are approaching Medicare age. I would be floored if a bronze plan was even in that neighborhood.

You sound like just another person throwing out complete fallacies because you hate Obama and the Democratic party in general (but mostly you hate Obama).

Obamacare is WONDERFUL.

Next...

[creditcardfree]

The declaration of independence and thr preamble to the constitution both establish healthcare as a right.

Wrong! Declaration of Independence only declared the US as Independent or absolved from the British Crown.

And it is debatable if it is a right that the government should provide you in the Preamble. I don't think government should keep you from pursuing healthcare in the least, which they do in many forms. For example, the government of the United State through the FDA bans procedures that happen every day safely in other countries. Why? Because those procedures threaten the business of other procedures and lobbyists have convinced our legislators and the FDA they are unsafe. So while I have health insurance I can't get the type of health care I would want in this country. Now, I can travel to that country...pursuing my own healthcare out of my own pocket. The fewer regulations and laws the better...where that line is IS debatable.

In my opinion, the belief that it ALL should be provided free of charge is just that a belief. And nothing is ever free...it comes to cost something to someone in some form every single time. Is it your right to take something from me so you can get something for you? Who's right is more important? Again all debatable, not going to force the debate...just something to think about.

[disneysteve]

Obamacare is WONDERFUL.

Next...

Rather than just giving a snarky sarcastic response, is it even remotely possible that you could recognize the fact that just because the ACA plan didn't work well for you and your family, it has benefited tens of millions of Americans?

[Gailete]

Rather than just giving a snarky sarcastic response, is it even remotely possible that you could recognize the fact that just because the ACA plan didn't work well for you and your family, it has benefited tens of millions of Americans?

One of the best things that came about with Obamacare was that my husband could finally get a corneal transplant he had needed for years, but he had no health insurance and a surgery like that runs about $30k. Not an amount in our budget for sure.

The only problem we run into with healthcare for him has not had anything to do with the Obamacare. It is the two hospitals in our area, that have joined forces with other institutions, so that they are now enemies. As I am on Medicare, I can go to any doctor I like, but if they need records from the other system, it is good luck getting them. One hospital system has apparently decided that no one should ever have continual narcotic pain meds so NONE of the doctors under the same system can write a script for them. The other hospital doctors think that it is their job to try and get everyone off them. They also seem to forget that with the taking people off pain meds that no withdrawal protocol is needed!

Back in the day 70's & 80's, we were allowed to deduct ALL our medical expenses from our taxes. It was wonderful. What insurance didn't cover, was a deduction. Now, at least for 2017, the medical decutions is based on a percentage of your income. So even those that make 'too much' for any help, have to spring for a huge chunk of their medical expenses. For someone with a $25K income they have to cover the first $1750, before anything can be deducted. Let us just say that is a big chunk from that sort of income.