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    #31
    Originally posted by kork13 View Post

    I guess that's exactly why I question how it matters. If most people will take a relatively normal amount of PTO either way, what's the problem? But in the event you DO actually need alot of time off (family/personal emergency, for example), it's not a massive issue to take that time & handle it. Under normal rules, you have to beg borrow & steal PTO days from co-workers or go into the hole with your own future PTO days.
    This is how we’d all hope it work out but not all workplaces operate this way (and in this situation - you’re right, there’s upside to the employee). The reason why it can be a negative is because often “unlimited PTO” actually means *less* PTO. The first company that I was with previously allowed 3 weeks of PTO for most employees. Then they switched the unlimited model and the average time off went to less than two weeks. It was very hard to take time off because there was a very toxic culture that encouraged crazy long hours (too much work, not enough people) and discouraged employees from taking PTO (and leaving your colleagues stranded). There are more companies like this than you’d think.

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      #32
      Originally posted by kork13 View Post

      I guess that's exactly why I question how it matters. If most people will take a relatively normal amount of PTO either way, what's the problem? But in the event you DO actually need alot of time off (family/personal emergency, for example), it's not a massive issue to take that time & handle it. Under normal rules, you have to beg borrow & steal PTO days from co-workers or go into the hole with your own future PTO days.
      So with our new unlimited PTO I'm struggling to push DH to take his time off. Before yes we got 21 days of vacay and yes he carried and cashed out 160 hours when he left in February, but I could push him to take time off by pointing out he was hitting the maximum. And he never felt guilty taking time off if it was on his paystub and he saw 150 hours then he'd be okay we can go somewhere. That isn't to say he still didn't work, he did but at least he would be willing.

      Now with "unlimited" time off i can count the days off he's actually taken since February. Also he works insanely hard and pretty much 7 days a week and most nights. So he works more than he used too. He used to work 1-2 hours a night and a couple hours on each day of the weekend. Now he works well a lot more. If you ask me? Probably 3-4 hours a night, something that irritates me working during dinner, and refusing to allow me to really book vacay.

      I booked 2 weeks next year and forced the issue. But considering he hasn't take that much this year, his company shut down but people still worked because the CEO was worried too much burn out. Since February the company has shut down 8 days and he's taken 3 days of holidays. 1 week in August (5 days), Easter Monday, Friday before Memorial and friday before 4th of july then he's taken the tuesday after easter, tuesday after fourth of july, and friday before August break. They are taking next Friday off so then it will be 9 days. If he were comped for all the time he's worked and he worked on all of those holidays he had his computer in hawaii and easter weekend away, there's no way he was on vacay. He'll be off on Thanksgiving and day after and christmas and new years. I think they might close for week between christmas and new years so we are going to hawaii.

      I admit to answering my phone for clients and working weird hours but I'm self employed. I do all the childcare. He is salaried and there is no comp time for him. I do think he works a solid 60 hour week if not more. He used to work I'd say like 50 hours but i could cajole him into taking vacations and usually he'd leave his stuff behind. Now no way.

      I don't like this unlimited crap, I can't convince him to take 15 days. Before I could probably force 15 days and holidays. With most places offering at least Christmas and new years off.

      I feel like the US works a lot and other countries have a lot more than 15 days off. And 15 days is considered "generous" in the USA as QMM pointed out.
      LivingAlmostLarge Blog

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        #33
        Originally posted by LivingAlmostLarge View Post
        I feel like the US works a lot and other countries have a lot more than 15 days off. And 15 days is considered "generous" in the USA as QMM pointed out.
        The US does work a lot - and the productivity gains are less than clear, depending on the industry. And other countries do take more time off, and it's more untethered than it is in the US.

        DH spent about 30 weeks on a project in the UK. Getting employees to engage while on vacation? Nope, not happening. Asking them to stay later? Nope, they have commitments, like children, and families. For many people, those things come first. As it should be, IMO.

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          #34
          Originally posted by ua_guy View Post

          The US does work a lot - and the productivity gains are less than clear, depending on the industry. And other countries do take more time off, and it's more untethered than it is in the US.

          DH spent about 30 weeks on a project in the UK. Getting employees to engage while on vacation? Nope, not happening. Asking them to stay later? Nope, they have commitments, like children, and families. For many people, those things come first. As it should be, IMO.
          Not just stay later but often times it's meeting at night over zoom or just working nights to get stuff on because you can see everyone else working at night. So then it compounds that you need to work extra to keep up. As one mom told me her company offered 6 months paid family leave no questions asked during the pandemic. She considered taking it. But if she did that would be a hit against her career progression so she didn't. Yes they would pay her but she would not get her bonus, not get her semi-annual or annual review, it would be evaluated as zero. So she decided to keep working.
          LivingAlmostLarge Blog

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            #35
            13 days holiday (10 fixed & 3 floating) + 12 days vacation. Floating holidays are use it or lose it. Vacation days can roll over; there is a limit to the amount you can accumulate but it's so high and I'm so old that I don't think I'll ever hit it. One of my colleagues retired recently and took at least a month off at the end using up her accumulated vacation time. I'll probably use about half of my vacation time and let the rest accumulate until I decide to pack it in.

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              #36
              Currently I earn 11 hours of vacation time a month and 8 hrs sick time a month. At the end of our fiscal year, if our accrued vacation time is over a certain amount, it will get rolled into sick time (which is why there a lot of retirements right before that happens so a check will be cut for the vacation time). The sick time is non expiring, and I'm allowed to count it towards retirement if I choose to do that. I'm currently sitting at almost a year in sick, I hope I don't have to use it in the next 15-20 years (fingers crossed).

              We can earn holiday time off for working holidays. That time is good for a year, or else you lose it. We also earn time for various merits we hit during the year. Again, that PTO is good for a year from accrual. I'm salaried, but do make overtime, hour for hour.

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                #37
                I get 6.154 hours every 2 weeks, capping at 200 hours. I also get 32 hours personal time on my hire anniversary, plus half my unused sick time, to a limit of 52 hours (this allotment expires at the anniversary, so it is typically used first).

                I just took 2 weeks off to decompress and get a lot of home stuff done. It was a very good and much needed break!

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                  #38
                  I'm up to 26 annual leave days per year. Plus 13 sick days + 12 holidays. You can carry over 40 days which I do now. I should retire the end of next year, so during next year my plan is to take off 40 + 26 (= 66) days. Plus my holidays. Plus some of my built up sick leave (currently at ~125 days).
                  Don't torture yourself, thats what I'm here for.

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                    #39
                    Originally posted by bennkar View Post
                    I'm up to 26 annual leave days per year. Plus 13 sick days + 12 holidays. You can carry over 40 days which I do now. I should retire the end of next year, so during next year my plan is to take off 40 + 26 (= 66) days. Plus my holidays. Plus some of my built up sick leave (currently at ~125 days).
                    Why wouldn't you get the 40 days paid out in 2023?
                    LivingAlmostLarge Blog

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                      #40
                      Self-employed and my job is seasonal so we may be slammed for a few months and have 14+ hour days nearly every day and then I am slow for a few weeks. It is nice to be able to have those slow times and relax with nothing much for a few weeks to recharge. Trying to figure out how to say "no" more often so even those crazy months aren't as insane.

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