Does your doc have your best interests in mind?

[disneysteve]

The only people I've been aware of who got the flu shot, also got the flu

No vaccine is 100% effective. The flu vaccine is particularly problematic because it vaccinates against 3 or 4 common strains but there are many more strains out there. The CDC reports that last year's vaccine effectiveness was in the 45-55% range which is pretty typical for the flu shot. So it is certainly possible that someone who was vaccinated could still come down with the flu if they got exposed to a strain that wasn't included in the vaccine.

That said, in no way do I think that supports skipping the vaccine. A 50% chance of avoiding the flu is a lot better than a 0% chance.

And just to be clear, it is absolutely impossible for the flu vaccine to give you the flu. That is a very common myth but it simply isn't true. The vaccine is not injecting you with live virus so it can not cause the disease.

[disneysteve]

I bet half of your chiros are anti-vaccination. But considering most of them reject western medicine, that shouldn't be surprising.

Doc I've got the flu, can you pop my back real quick? And make sure it makes a noise this time so I know you did some good.

Not a scientific sampling by any means but I don't think any of the chiropractors or osteopaths who I've worked with or been treated by are anti-vaccination. I also don't think any of them reject western medicine. In fact, they all very much work as part of a treatment team that is typically based in western medicine. For example, I may be seeing a patient with back issues. I prescribe their anti-inflammatory medicine and muscle relaxer, a pain management specialist may prescribe an opiate pain reliever and perform trigger point or epidural injections, and a chiropractor provides physical therapy and manipulation treatment. Also , many chiropractors around here work in partnership with a neurologist who performs EMG testing and other neurological services as part of the treatment regimen.

As for your comment about the flu, chiropractic care certainly can't cure the flu - but neither can western medicine. There is no cure for the flu. Can chiropractic care help symptoms? Sure. If you've had a bad cough and your back is hurting as a result, getting some therapy may give you some relief, but it certainly won't "fix" the flu itself. That just needs to run its course.

[FLA]

I bet half of your chiros are anti-vaccination. But considering most of them reject western medicine, that shouldn't be surprising.

Doc I've got the flu, can you pop my back real quick? And make sure it makes a noise this time so I know you did some good.

probably but I only got to the chiro for one thing, not the flu. Kind of like you don't go to the gyno for your extreme head pain

[Captain Save]

Here's where people often run into trouble, though. Too many folks assume that "natural" means "healthy" and "safe" and "prescription" automatically means "dangerous". In reality, none of those assumptions are true. Some natural remedies are safe and effective. Many others are not. Because natural remedies are not regulated by the FDA, they are not required to prove anything before being marketed. That's why they all have a disclaimer on the label that says something to the effect of "this product is not intended to treat any condition". It's also why you'll see dosing instructions like, "Take one to six pills daily".

Prescription medications, on the other hand, many of which are derived from natural sources, have to undergo very strict and very rigorous testing before they can make any efficacy or safety claims.

Certainly, there have been numerous cases where a prescription product was found to have risks once it was on the market that hadn't been identified in testing, but the same can be said for OTC products. You mentioned taking mega doses of certain vitamins. I'm sure you know that vitamins A and E (as well as D and K) are toxic in high doses. Again, too many people assume that if it doesn't require a prescription, it's safe and you can take as much as you want to, but it doesn't work that way.

I'm not opposed to non-prescription products in general. I take a multivitamin myself and often advise patients to take certain supplements. I just think the whole "natural" is good and "prescription" is bad is a very dangerous mindset.

well there are several things wrong here .. not with your post but the way people think of these products..

1. just because it's not prescription does not make it safe ..
2. what is the definition of natural ..like you said a lot of drugs are derived from natural sources .. so that word can get pimped by all types of people .. I wish natural just meant anything in its natural state.. for example .. I juice vegetables almost every day .. it's great for my UC.. now the veggies that I like are typically organic .... however once I juice them they are no longer in their natural state so the cold press juices should not be considered a "natural" product just like the drugs... but it does not mean cold press juices are not healthy .. However the organic veggies should be considered a natural product
3. by that definition vitamin pills are not a natural product.. again does not mean that they're bad ..

[disneysteve]

well there are several things wrong here .. not with your post but the way people think of these products..

1. just because it's not prescription does not make it safe ..
2. what is the definition of natural ..like you said a lot of drugs are derived from natural sources .. so that word can get pimped by all types of people .. I wish natural just meant anything in its natural state.. for example .. I juice vegetables almost every day .. it's great for my UC.. now the veggies that I like are typically organic .... however once I juice them they are no longer in their natural state so the cold press juices should not be considered a "natural" product just like the drugs... but it does not mean cold press juices are not healthy .. However the organic veggies should be considered a natural product
3. by that definition vitamin pills are not a natural product.. again does not mean that they're bad ..

Agreed. "Natural" really doesn't mean much of anything. When a patient tells me they want a natural remedy, I tell them it would be natural for me to walk outside my office and eat the bark off the trees but that doesn't mean it would be good for me. I also point out that tobacco is natural. So is marijuana. That doesn't mean they're good for us.

There is a whole marketing machine working to convince people that "natural" products are good and prescription products are evil. Americans spent about $21 billion on supplements last year! That's a huge amount of money for products that have little to no science to support their use, efficacy, or safety. Of course that's nothing compared to the $375 billion spent on prescriptions, but at least those are proven to work (the amount spent to market them is truly insane, as well).

[rennigade]

I bet half of your chiros are anti-vaccination. But considering most of them reject western medicine, that shouldn't be surprising.

Doc I've got the flu, can you pop my back real quick? And make sure it makes a noise this time so I know you did some good.

Its ironic that you think chiropractors perform voodoo yet you believe some "thing" created humans from dirt and that the earth is less than 10,000 years old. Seems reasonable.

[FLA]

BTW, my chiro found a lump on my friend's back that he never would've seen and she called his primary for an appt that day. He had an aggressive form of lymphoma it turned out. She saved his life by referring him to Western medicine without a second thought.

[TexasHusker]

Its ironic that you think chiropractors perform voodoo yet you believe some "thing" created humans from dirt and that the earth is less than 10,000 years old. Seems reasonable.

I don't recall ever discussing my theology on savingsadvice; perhaps you can refresh my memory. Or better yet, just tell everyone what I believe.

[Outdoorsygal]

After 200+ posts one would think you would have picked up the troll game by now.

I can't help it if I am clueless!

[Outdoorsygal]

No vaccine is 100% effective. The flu vaccine is particularly problematic because it vaccinates against 3 or 4 common strains but there are many more strains out there. The CDC reports that last year's vaccine effectiveness was in the 45-55% range which is pretty typical for the flu shot. So it is certainly possible that someone who was vaccinated could still come down with the flu if they got exposed to a strain that wasn't included in the vaccine.

That said, in no way do I think that supports skipping the vaccine. A 50% chance of avoiding the flu is a lot better than a 0% chance.

And just to be clear, it is absolutely impossible for the flu vaccine to give you the flu. That is a very common myth but it simply isn't true. The vaccine is not injecting you with live virus so it can not cause the disease.

I didn't mean the vaccine causes the flu, just that it didn't combat it.
A person really needs to consider whether to put poison in your body because you might get an ailment that you can easily re-coup from.
If someone has health issues, or is up in years, well then that could be different.

[LivingAlmostLarge]

Flu vaccine it's hit or miss, I've done it personally. Some years it's good and others well not so good. You're better off getting it.

Actually many other countries produce the exact same drug and sell it over the counter for a lot less because of the US patent laws. NOT because of the FDA. OMG you stick a carbon group on it and call it a new slightly different drug and get another 20 years. Anyway because of socialized medicine many countries get prescription drugs off patent faster and cheaper. We're not talking india.

And by the way nowadays MOST companies outsource pharma work to China. One person here calling 20 people over there. And many of the top people there trained here but went back. So they do bulk production and research. We do basic ideas and design but then send it over there for refining and fast production to help us along. So it's not just blue collar jobs that are outsourced.

[Captain Save]

No vaccine is 100% effective. The flu vaccine is particularly problematic because it vaccinates against 3 or 4 common strains but there are many more strains out there. The CDC reports that last year's vaccine effectiveness was in the 45-55% range which is pretty typical for the flu shot. So it is certainly possible that someone who was vaccinated could still come down with the flu if they got exposed to a strain that wasn't included in the vaccine.

That said, in no way do I think that supports skipping the vaccine. A 50% chance of avoiding the flu is a lot better than a 0% chance.

And just to be clear, it is absolutely impossible for the flu vaccine to give you the flu. That is a very common myth but it simply isn't true. The vaccine is not injecting you with live virus so it can not cause the disease.

.
a 50% chance is great if there are no other factors at play.. like vaccine injuries and deaths ... now we can debate about the numbers and how significant they are but that brings me to the real concern about the vaccine system in the country.. they are trying to force it on people who don't want it .. they are increasing the amount of recommended vaccines and more states are starting to require vaccines ..

by the way .. i've had the flu before and I never thought it was something dangerous enough for me to get a vaccine for .. same goes for chicken pox and mumps.. i've had them all .. and yes they are dangerous if you don't have access at good healthcare but they should not be forced on everyone..

[LivingAlmostLarge]

vaccines work because we're immunizing the herd. The less people get vaccinated the more diseases come back because the herd immunity isn't. Did you notice the rise in outbreaks among children because parents aren't immunizing? And did you see the articles proving that vaccines don't cause autism were proven false and the authors totally discredited? Also people posting letters from dr who have "opinions" but NO scientific study, hypthesis, and data to back up what they believe. Antedotal. Not proven, not studied, not even tested. Just an opinion.

I find it ridiculous that people can choose immunizations nowadays. Great. Let's just bring back whooping cough, polio, mumps, measles, rubella, chicken pox, etc. Sounds fantastic. That will really help health insurance costs in the US. Of course it's like health insurance. I am healthy and don't need it until I do.

[Captain Save]

vaccines work because we're immunizing the herd. The less people get vaccinated the more diseases come back because the herd immunity isn't. Did you notice the rise in outbreaks among children because parents aren't immunizing? And did you see the articles proving that vaccines don't cause autism were proven false and the authors totally discredited? Also people posting letters from dr who have "opinions" but NO scientific study, hypthesis, and data to back up what they believe. Antedotal. Not proven, not studied, not even tested. Just an opinion.

I find it ridiculous that people can choose immunizations nowadays. Great. Let's just bring back whooping cough, polio, mumps, measles, rubella, chicken pox, etc. Sounds fantastic. That will really help health insurance costs in the US. Of course it's like health insurance. I am healthy and don't need it until I do.

again .. that's great if there are no side effects and no reported deaths or injuries .. since those are the facts of vaccines .. parents and inviduals should have that chioce... you're immunizing one thing at the expense of potenttially getting something that could be worse... the individuals have the right to chose if it's worth it ..

[GoodSteward]

I can't wrap my brain around not believing in the flu shot, the science is there. Especially if you are around younger or older sick people who cannot receive the shot and the flu could easily kill them. If the people around them are vaccinated, then they are protected. My hospital system mandated all employees get vaccinated and those that don't have to wear a mask all day during flu season.

Actually, I've personally not seen this around me. I work with people who get flu shots, and they often still get the flu. My grandmother took the flu shot yearly and yearly got the flu. She finally just quit taking it and she quit getting the flu. Again, observation is all I am giving here. I've personally not gotten the flu shot, ever I guess, and I can't remember the last time I got the flu. Cold/Crud...every year. But never the flu. One explination I was given by someone is that since there are many strands of the flu they take a guess at which will be the worst each year, and give shots for those. They can't get them all. I don't know how true that is, but that does make sense.

I'm not opposed to non-prescription products in general. I take a multivitamin myself and often advise patients to take certain supplements. I just think the whole "natural" is good and "prescription" is bad is a very dangerous mindset.

I agree with your post. While it is hard to OD on some vitamins, it can be done on others. Minerals can definitely be OD'd on. You have to be careful. I just don't trust the pharmaceutical field very much due to what I've seen, and how you never know which drug will be the next one that turns out to be life altering/threatening and they didn't know it until it was too late. I'm very cautious with what I take.