How to define "Poor"?

[clatoden99]

Two fold: not being able to realize our true potential because of lack of access to nutrition, education, and opportunity. And not taking advantage of the opportunity once it is presented to us because of our own choosing.

[disneysteve]

Maybe there could be incentives for choosing healthy foods

There have been some attempts at encouraging people to make healthy choices by taxing the unhealthy stuff (e.g. soda tax) but I don't know what effect things like that have had.

I think saying, "You can buy this with your SNAP benefits but if you want to buy that you'll have to pay cash" might be a decent incentive.

[FLA]

lol, that would work, too. I'm taking my dog outta this fight, I don't want to turn it into a lengthy back and forth when we're not gonna agree

[disneysteve]

lol, that would work, too. I'm taking my dog outta this fight, I don't want to turn it into a lengthy back and forth when we're not gonna agree

Yep. It's one of those "agree to disagree" points. Nobody knows the "right" answer if there even is one.

[bigdaddybus]

As a foster parent my wife and I signed up for WIC. I volunteered to take the required online courses, fill all the paperwork, and do the shopping while my wife focused on caring for the two babies we had in our care.

I had no previous experience with any government programs but boy oh boy did I learn a lot. Here are a couple examples of Govt program issues that just drove me nuts.
1. I took online parenting classes to get WIC. I was a 35yr old guy who was a licensed foster parent (with two biological teen children) that was taking online breastfeeding classes! What a big freaking waste of time, just to get credits so we could get formula for the babies we were caring for.
2. The medical card is a freaking joke. 90% of the DR's in my area don't take it as my state doesn't have a good track record of paying their bills. So we just took the foster kids to the emergency room/prompt care even though we knew it would cost more to the state.
3. Oatmeal!!!! I tried to buy flavored oatmeal and was told I had to put it back and get plain non flavored outmeal. Both boxes were instant oatmeal with the same size, brand, and cost.
4. Dentist - We cared for a 3 yr old one time who needed 7 cavities filled and one tooth pulled. I was turned away from every dentist within 40 miles of my home and was told to take the kid to a dental training school 100 miles from my home and to wait in line with the homeless on Tuesdays and Thursdays! I told the caseworker I was going to a dentist office and offering to pay cash. I was threatened that I could not do that as I wasn't the child's guardian (the state was), and I did have permission.

Enough ranting I guess. But I did learn a valuable experience though these experiences. First, that free govt help is often very, very inconvenient. Second, Govt assistance is inefficient. I work in the IT shop of a top fortune 500 company and we could process improve the heck out of govt programs. 3. It is emotionally degrading to use. 4. And for those with the free time, you can game the system and take advantage of it. (I was told I could sell formula on CL to buy what we wanted, etc.)

[bigdaddybus]

I realize several of us have strayed off topic a bit, but I appreciate how the group for the most part can "Agree to disagree" and stay peaceful while sharing their experiences to educate the group as a whole.

I grew up fairly well off and I have many, many family and friends that all have the attitude that you should "pull yourself up and work hard" and they really feel there is no excuse (beside mental health or disability) to NEED govt assistance, handouts, food pantries, etc. It wasn't until I got into foster parenting and volunteering at shelters where I really learned what it was like to be poor, and what is and isn't available.

[LivingAlmostLarge]

bigdaddy, also with poverty is the lack of knowledge on how to work the system. How to get benefits faster and use them. It's a double edged sword.

[FLA]

when I worked in VNA home care in the 90s and onward, I couldn't believe the bureaucracy to get and keep benefits. Our social workers would make "appointments" for patients to meet with their case worker and give them a ride. They would wait more than two hours for a scheduled appointment only to be told they were missing some minor piece of paperwork and thus get sent home with no help. If you didn't have a case worker and just showed up to apply for whatever SNAP was called back then or HEAP, you'd wait hours. The place was wall to wall people with their kids with them because they didn't have a sitter. It looked like Hell's waiting room IMHO.

I think you can do more online these days but the truly impoverished, those that are not scamming the system, who we could all stipulate probably need benefits, do they have the internet? And our inner city libraries closed.

[LivingAlmostLarge]

Interesting aside the libraries where I live allow people with a library card to print 75 pages black and white a week for free. The suburban library. Not the city libraries. I know this is a big deal that people in the burbs can go hang out in the library, use internet for 2 hours a day and then print stuff. Not happening in the city libraries. The librarian I know made a point of telling me not City but only our county library.

[disneysteve]

3. Oatmeal!!!! I tried to buy flavored oatmeal and was told I had to put it back and get plain non flavored outmeal. Both boxes were instant oatmeal with the same size, brand, and cost.

You made a bunch of great points. This is the only one I would push back on.

Just because flavored oatmeal costs the same doesn't make it equal. And it probably didn't really cost the same if you checked the unit price. They might have both been boxes of 10 envelopes but the flavored oatmeal had less in each envelope. They do that on purpose to keep the price the same.

The bigger problem as far as WIC is concerned, though, is the sugar content of the flavored stuff. There is no sugar (except whatever is naturally occurring) in the plain oatmeal. It's like comparing plain corn flakes to frosted flakes.

[disneysteve]

4. Dentist - We cared for a 3 yr old one time who needed 7 cavities filled and one tooth pulled. I was turned away from every dentist within 40 miles of my home and was told to take the kid to a dental training school 100 miles from my home and to wait in line with the homeless on Tuesdays and Thursdays!

This is a huge problem where I practice. The dental health of my patients is horrendous but that's because even though Medicaid covers dental care, the access to that care is almost non-existent, as you described. There are only a couple of doctors in the area who even accept Medicaid and they typically don't take appointments. It's a "come and wait" system like you encountered. You need to get there first thing in the morning and may have to wait until 2 or 3pm before you are seen, if you are seen at all.

Really, who can do that? A lot of these people do have jobs. Or they have kids they need to get to and from school. Or they have elderly or disabled parents or spouses that they care for. They can't spend an entire day waiting for the dentist. That just falls very low on their priority list, so they go without dental care, often for many, many years at a time.

[disneysteve]

As a foster parent

2. The medical card is a freaking joke. 90% of the DR's in my area don't take it

Typically, the doctors who accept the state insurance are in or near the low income areas (like me) since that's where the majority of the patients are.

I'm guessing that you live in a nicer, middle class area. The doctors there don't need to accept state insurance because it would make up a very small portion of their patient population and isn't worth the hassle. So you would probably need to travel to an area that you'd probably rather not go to to find a participating doctor.

[bigdaddybus]

Typically, the doctors who accept the state insurance are in or near the low income areas (like me) since that's where the majority of the patients are.

I'm guessing that you live in a nicer, middle class area. The doctors there don't need to accept state insurance because it would make up a very small portion of their patient population and isn't worth the hassle. So you would probably need to travel to an area that you'd probably rather not go to to find a participating doctor.

I think in my example it has a lot more to do with living in Illinois. I had Dr's, daycares, dentists all tell me "Sorry, I can no longer take the medical card until the state pays me the 50K-200K they already owe me over the last year or couple of years."

The other response I was given was "I limit my medical card clients to 10-20% of my clients as I know I a may never to get paid so I have to limit my exposure"

In the example I mentioned above about the boy needing dental care. I took the boy to a dentist that turned me down over the phone, walked in without an appointment, put him on the counter and asked him to show the ladies behind the counter where his teeth hurt. (his cavities were all visible)Thankfully, those ladies had compassion and talked the Pediatric Dentist into helping.

[FLA]

in our city there was one dentist who accepted Medicaid and one place to get glasses. To serve how many thousands of people? It's absurd.