Vaccination free for-all

[Snydley]

Keep in mind that the 30% is largely part of the 70%. Every single person I know who has had COVID has also been vaccinated. I'm sure there are some folks who had COVID and will skip the vaccine but I would hope that most will still get it.

I'd guess 20-50% of that 30% (previously infected) is not getting vaccinated and not planning to- they also haven't been social distancing, etc. While COVID induces far lower antibodies than the vaccine in general, reinfections are pretty rare, so decent protection is present in this population.

[disneysteve]

I suspect testing will be cut way back in scale. I'm still required to be tested every week at work even though I'm vaccinated. Kinda seems like a waste of money do keep doing this.

Oh, I agree with that. I think routine testing of asymptomatic vaccinated people needs to stop. I was referring to symptomatic testing. I don't think that will ever go away.

I think 'herd immunity' in some form will be reached, since ~30% of the country has been infected and we'll see probably 70% vaccinated (maybe?).

Keep in mind that the 30% is largely part of the 70%. Every single person I know who has had COVID has also been vaccinated. I'm sure there are some folks who had COVID and will skip the vaccine but I would hope that most will still get it.

[Snydley]

Lots of good questions that we don't have answers to yet.

I don't think we're ever going to see 80-90% vaccination. There are far too many people refusing vaccination for that to happen.

We don't yet know how long immunity lasts after vaccination, or after having COVID. The only way to answer that question is with time. If a booster dose of the vaccine is needed on some regular basis, like a flu shot, that will be another hurdle, especially if it becomes a vaccine that changes periodically due to new variants.

I think testing will likely stay around. We test for flu. I see no reason we wouldn't test for COVID.

A high vaccination rate will certainly cut down cases, especially severe cases, but they'll still occur, especially in unvaccinated people (either by choice or due to medical inability to get it).

I suspect testing will be cut way back in scale. I'm still required to be tested every week at work even though I'm vaccinated. Kinda seems like a waste of money do keep doing this.

I think 'herd immunity' in some form will be reached, since ~30% of the country has been infected and we'll see probably 70% vaccinated (maybe?). So pre-existing immunity in the population as a whole will mean far fewer severe cases.

I think vaccine immunity could need a booster in a year; however, the immunity might last longer and maybe no additional shot will be needed for 2-3 years.

[disneysteve]

I'm trying to look into the future when we reach 80% to 90% vaccination and/or herd immunity, is testing going to be necessary? Maybe I can see testing for patients who present to the hospital for moderate to severe symptoms but for mild symptoms not needed? This might be a dumb question but with herd immunity will we even see moderate to severe symptoms anymore?

Lots of good questions that we don't have answers to yet.

I don't think we're ever going to see 80-90% vaccination. There are far too many people refusing vaccination for that to happen.

We don't yet know how long immunity lasts after vaccination, or after having COVID. The only way to answer that question is with time. If a booster dose of the vaccine is needed on some regular basis, like a flu shot, that will be another hurdle, especially if it becomes a vaccine that changes periodically due to new variants.

I think testing will likely stay around. We test for flu. I see no reason we wouldn't test for COVID.

A high vaccination rate will certainly cut down cases, especially severe cases, but they'll still occur, especially in unvaccinated people (either by choice or due to medical inability to get it).

[QuarterMillionMan]

I'm trying to look into the future when we reach 80% to 90% vaccination and/or herd immunity, is testing going to be necessary? Maybe I can see testing for patients who present to the hospital for moderate to severe symptoms but for mild symptoms not needed? This might be a dumb question but with herd immunity will we even see moderate to severe symptoms anymore?

[TexasHusker]

I don't agree with this, and I'll present the other side, briefly. Liberals such as myself believe the following: (1) Government needs to look like the people and serve the people (not profit from them), (2) the system is quite rigged against those not born into the right color, gender, or zip code, (3) we need to care about one another. The 'religion of tolerance' is about being a good, caring person, judging someone by their character, not their color or gender. To many liberals, those who don't share these feelings appear to be, quite frankly, bad people.

Dishonesty and 'control' was never seen at a more pronounced level arguably in the history of the US than with Trump. 'Coersion' as you mention, is telling the public this virus is going to go away, as he did at the start of the pandemic. He lied constantly and tried to prevent votes from being counted, then rallied an insurrection when he didn't win the election.

I'm attempting to meet you more in the middle with COVID discussions, with facts and logic. You have represented the right-wing 'other side' on these forums, and I'm interested in seeing how our discourse plays out, to see if it is truly impossible for Americans to find middle ground on some issues. I do wonder if racism underlies it all and is the real dividing factor.

I'm no Trump defender.

[disneysteve]

TexasHusker and Snydley, thank you both for your posts. I'd love to respond but this really isn't the place for it so I'll refrain.

I will ask that we do our best to stick to the thread topics. Certainly, government policies greatly impact how the pandemic response has played out, so it's impossible to avoid getting into those discussions to a certain extent. You'd have to be blind to not see how differently the two parties have approached this from day one.

What we need to try and avoid here is getting into broader political topics unrelated to COVID (or whatever the topic of the particular thread is). Name calling from either side isn't okay. Liberals and Conservatives have very different priorities and different views about pretty much everything whether it's COVID, guns, religion, equality, voting rights, or anything else. While I really enjoy a good discussion about those topics, this site generally isn't the right place to have those conversations except to the extent that they directly relate to the topic at hand.

Thanks. I'll readily admit that I'm not always great at following this rule myself but let's all try to do so going forward.

[Snydley]

One problem is, the fed’s role has expanded from governing the people, to coercing and manipulating the people. Liberals tend to want to form and shape society into some ideal, rather than simply govern. It is the religion of tolerance, yet if you do not agree with them, you are demonized. You’re a bigot, a deplorable, a racist, a science-denier. So you are tolerated so long as you agree with the tolerators.

Coercion leads to dishonesty, which gives birth to fear, which gives birth to control, which leads to distrust. Distrust gives birth to defiance, which then gives birth to violence. We have reached the defiance and anarchy stage. You see anarchy in every nook and cranny in this country, manifested in a variety of ways. Airplanes, schools, even churches and synagogues. Anarchy from the right, anarchy the left.

Liberalism eventually consumes everything if given enough time, including its own. We are seeing a microcosm of this being played out with the COVID games to its logical conclusion.

For more, I recommend Machiavelli’s The Prince.

I don't agree with this, and I'll present the other side, briefly. Liberals such as myself believe the following: (1) Government needs to look like the people and serve the people (not profit from them), (2) the system is quite rigged against those not born into the right color, gender, or zip code, (3) we need to care about one another. The 'religion of tolerance' is about being a good, caring person, judging someone by their character, not their color or gender. To many liberals, those who don't share these feelings appear to be, quite frankly, bad people.

Dishonesty and 'control' was never seen at a more pronounced level arguably in the history of the US than with Trump. 'Coersion' as you mention, is telling the public this virus is going to go away, as he did at the start of the pandemic. He lied constantly and tried to prevent votes from being counted, then rallied an insurrection when he didn't win the election.

I'm attempting to meet you more in the middle with COVID discussions, with facts and logic. You have represented the right-wing 'other side' on these forums, and I'm interested in seeing how our discourse plays out, to see if it is truly impossible for Americans to find middle ground on some issues. I do wonder if racism underlies it all and is the real dividing factor.

[TexasHusker]

When the CDC chief teared up about the variants I was super-pissed. What does this serve, and the science didn't support her panic (and I work in this field). I would say there was a less than 1% risk of vaccines not being effective on the variants when she made this statement. You need to level with people, give them actual info, talk about relative risk (10% vs 1% vs lower). They never do this.

Now, people are choosing vaccines vs infection risk- how about we provide them with the data? Your risk of vaccine reaction is X, your risk of COVID-19 complications during initial infection is Y, your risk on long term (potentially permanent) issues is Z. Update these numbers, for all age groups, as they come in...and pitch it all as, here's the info, the decision is yours.

One problem is, the fed’s role has expanded from governing the people, to coercing and manipulating the people. Liberals tend to want to form and shape society into some ideal, rather than simply govern. It is the religion of tolerance, yet if you do not agree with them, you are demonized. You’re a bigot, a deplorable, a racist, a science-denier. So you are tolerated so long as you agree with the tolerators.

Coercion leads to dishonesty, which gives birth to fear, which gives birth to control, which leads to distrust. Distrust gives birth to defiance, which then gives birth to violence. We have reached the defiance and anarchy stage. You see anarchy in every nook and cranny in this country, manifested in a variety of ways. Airplanes, schools, even churches and synagogues. Anarchy from the right, anarchy the left.

Liberalism eventually consumes everything if given enough time, including its own. We are seeing a microcosm of this being played out with the COVID games to its logical conclusion.

For more, I recommend Machiavelli’s The Prince.

[LivingAlmostLarge]

I got a bunch of notifications for waiting lists I was on.

[disneysteve]

Locally, no idea. I've frankly been focused on other things...like the stock market.

I haven't really paid much attention either since we're both already vaccinated. But as a doc, I'm curious. I used to work in a very underserved area so I wonder how well they're managing to get that population vaccinated, especially now that no appointments are needed and it's open to everyone.

[james.hendrickson]

Ah, that's less impressive. That means you actively sought out the information.

I'm really curious how they are spreading the word to the underserved communities and reaching the people who aren't out looking to get the vaccine but would be willing if the opportunity presented itself.

Locally, no idea. I've frankly been focused on other things...like the stock market.

[disneysteve]

Disneysteve - I signed up through the State of Oregon's website.

Ah, that's less impressive. That means you actively sought out the information.

I'm really curious how they are spreading the word to the underserved communities and reaching the people who aren't out looking to get the vaccine but would be willing if the opportunity presented itself.

[james.hendrickson]

Interesting. Where did the notifications come from? Is it from the county or other government agency? If they have a way to push out a notice to everyone's phone that's good. However, there's still the problem of the short notice. If you work or need to arrange transportation or child care, you need advance warning.

Disneysteve - I signed up through the State of Oregon's website.

Honestly - even if you don't think the vaccines are effective, its still good manners to get them. It makes other people around you feel comfortable.

[disneysteve]

Yes - I got three notifications on my phone for pop up events today and yesterday.

Interesting. Where did the notifications come from? Is it from the county or other government agency? If they have a way to push out a notice to everyone's phone that's good. However, there's still the problem of the short notice. If you work or need to arrange transportation or child care, you need advance warning.