Do you hate your career?

[disneysteve]

Steve, I was referring to Dave's post

You quoted my post in your reply. Silly me thought that meant you were responding to what I had said.

[DaveInPgh]

I do follow what you are saying, and I have been on jobs similar to that. However, they were also lower paying jobs. I have a lot of downtime at work, and I find plenty to keep me busy. Reading news, reading up on new Tech, browsing this forum, studying for church stuff. Sometimes, when we are slow, I get a little stir crazy and hope for a call, but that is more because I'm starting to feel guilty for being here and not really working(I can't help if there are no tech problems for hours or days). If the job you guys are talking about required you to stay busy with work related material only (No internet browsing), but only offered you an hours worth of responsibility, then that could only last so long, I agree. However, if you are free to fill your own time with the internet....I'd make that work if it was a lot more than I could make elsewhere.

Go find someone making 10$/hr, and ask if they would like a job making 220k$ a year and only needed to work an hour or so a day. The rest of the time they could read a book, read news, or work on something of their own. I'm pretty sure they would jump at it, and be happy with it. Unless they were not self-motivated, and couldn't find other things to do. I also doubt you would see them complaining about being bored and want to go find another 10$/hr job instead.

On the other hand, if they were making 150k$ a year and were offered the same thing, I can see you getting bored with it and go find a different 150k$ /yr job.

Money may not always have a lot to do with it, but I think it can. If you were offered 1 million a year for the same thing would you pass it up or leave after being there because you were bored? I believe it's more relative to the income variation as to what people are willing to suffer through. I think if there is a big enough jump in pay, you'd try to figure it out and make yourself stay busy.

You say you get it but really don't. And again, I don't make $220k.

I never said I would trade my job for a $10/hour job that makes me happier. My happiness at work is secondary to the needs of my family. My first position with the company was more of a clerical position. I really enjoyed that job. But I would never give up the money to go back to it, and if I knew then what I know now I STILL wouldn't have stayed in the position.

But just because I make a decent salary, it doesn't mean that I can't hate my job. Just because there are people working for less and would happily switch places, doesn't mean I can't hate my job.

[DaveInPgh]

Another aspect of this discussion to think about.

For centuries, men have asked each other "what do you do for a living?" when meeting someone new at a social gathering. Being mostly just an observer of these situations, it stands out to me how fulfilled men appear to be discussing their career. It is a setting I hate being in because I have next to nothing to say. I can try to explain what my department does, but there is absolutely no fulfillment talking about my job. I do nothing. I hang out on the internet most of the day. I have a Finance degree that I never really put to good use.

I do nothing.

[Fishindude77]

Yep, most people in North America, and most of us posters on SA don't appreciate how good we have it and we have never really seen truly hard times or hard work.

I really have no sympathy for someone who is paid well, sits in a climate controlled environment every day, collects the pay and benefits, yet whines about the stress and their work situation. Change your situation for crying out loud.

[disneysteve]

I really have no sympathy for someone who is paid well, sits in a climate controlled environment every day, collects the pay and benefits, yet whines about the stress and their work situation. Change your situation for crying out loud.

It is far easier for a minimum wage worker to change jobs. It gets much more difficult as you move up the pay scale. For someone making 100K or 200K or more, the available jobs get less and less.

That's not to say that someone can't make a change. I was really unhappy in my old practice and left, only to take a position where I earned quite a bit less but was way happier. We felt the lifestyle improvement and lower stress level was worth the lower income.

Today, 16 years later, I'm in transition again, facing the possibility of leaving my current practice. The new job will likely be less enjoyable and fulfilling than the current one, but the pay will be far better and the hours will be way more flexible, so this change will be for different reasons and benefits.

Bottom line is that you need to decide what your priorities are, what matters most, and what compromises you are willing to make.

[TexasHusker]

Everyone said I was nuts contemplating leaving a $220K do-nothing job. Family, friends. "You're off your rocker ....you make more than 99% of us...that's irresponsible...you're ungrateful."

But about 10 years ago I began plotting my exit strategy. I started buying vacation homes in 2005, launched a property mgt co in 2011, and that same year, opened a service business franchise.

When it appeared those would generate enough to pay the bills - about $100K a year - I quit. It was a leap of faith for sure, but not really that much - God has always provided for my needs and wants and I had no reason to believe he wouldn't continue.

Fast forward a few years, and I've exceeded the $220K per year on my own. I never miss a kids golf tournament or volleyball game, we go on vacations whenever we want, I don't have to wear a tie, I can take a 2 hour lunch at my pleasure, there are no more hateful emails and meetings about who's got the most stroke.

I walked from that to the dismay of many, and that has made all the difference.

I'm no stranger to hard work. I had a 110 customer paper route at age 12 - I worked every day except Saturday. I needed the job to pay for a violin that I financed. Payment was $41.66 a month for three years.

When I turned 14, I started work washing dishes and bussing tables at a local bar. Virtually every weekend night through age 16. No football games or dates.

Paid my way through college with zero debt, working 35-40 hrs a week doing various grunt work.

[DaveInPgh]

Let me also add that I am not looking for or desire anyone's sympathy.

A topic was created and I responded to it.

And I also don't need to visit a third world country to know hard times or hard work. Have experienced both.

And please feel free to quote the last three words and tell me how I haven't experienced hard times like the people in India or somewhere else.

[DaveInPgh]

I discussed this topic with my wife yesterday during our commute home. She mentioned a story she just read about middle aged people changing careers. All of the people featured in the article had great paying jobs, but were also married to someone also with a great paying job. A doctor who decided to become a financial adviser, but had a wife that was making 6 figures.

My wife couldn't relate to the article, and based on what she told me it seemed like a waste of ink (bytes). Sure, I imagine they had to change their lifestyle some during the transition and their were sacrifices made. However, it is an entirely different situation for someone in the middle class making a career change.

[disneysteve]

it is an entirely different situation for someone in the middle class making a career change.

It depends. If they're smart and have done all the right stuff with their money, they could be well positioned to make a change, like Texas Husker mentioned above, or like I did years ago. We had a frugal lifestyle and a good EF. I was out of work for 3 months during which time, among other things, we did a spur of the moment trip to Disney World for 12 days and spent a week at a conference in Las Vegas that was already planned before I quit my job. I also spent those 3 months selling on ebay full time to help bring in some extra cash.

On the other hand, if you're among the 60-70% of Americans who live paycheck to paycheck, changing jobs is a whole different story. When you know you won't be able to pay your bills if you miss even a single paycheck, it's a lot harder to pull the trigger and leave a steady job, even if you are miserable there.

[TexasHusker]

There were a couple of nuggets my grandad said to me that stuck in my gut, too:

"If you're going to have a career working for the man, you gotta play politics."

I hate politics. Kissing up, command performances, required party attendance, gifts for the boss, telling him how smart he is in group meetings, etc.


"You're never as valuable to someone else as you are to yourself."

Meaning: your employer is likely using a tiny bit of your ability to work on some part of their overall machine that is designed to make them fabulously wealthy.

Those two things motivated me to get out and make my own way, if I could.

[Singuy]

It depends. If they're smart and have done all the right stuff with their money, they could be well positioned to make a change, like Texas Husker mentioned above, or like I did years ago. We had a frugal lifestyle and a good EF. I was out of work for 3 months during which time, among other things, we did a spur of the moment trip to Disney World for 12 days and spent a week at a conference in Las Vegas that was already planned before I quit my job. I also spent those 3 months selling on ebay full time to help bring in some extra cash.

On the other hand, if you're among the 60-70% of Americans who live paycheck to paycheck, changing jobs is a whole different story. When you know you won't be able to pay your bills if you miss even a single paycheck, it's a lot harder to pull the trigger and leave a steady job, even if you are miserable there.

Yup, like I said. Start working on an exit plan. That will stimulate your work day for months or years..or in Texas' scenario, 10 years.

If anything, start planning for a debt free life. You can become a changed person with little monthly obligations and a decent savings account. You don't have to be a passive aggressive employee(not saying you are one) or someone who is always in job preservation mode. Just imagine the amount of stress one needs to put up with when debt is up to their necks..and any loss of a job may put their kids on the streets.

[Fishindude77]

I had a 110 customer paper route at age 12 - I worked every day except Saturday. I needed the job to pay for a violin that I financed. Payment was $41.66 a month for three years.

When I turned 14, I started work washing dishes and bussing tables at a local bar. Virtually every weekend night through age 16. No football games or dates.

Paid my way through college with zero debt, working 35-40 hrs a week doing various grunt work.

Good stuff !
Don't see near as much of that these days.

Also - Good comment about planning for a debt free life. Many tied to those jobs they don't like have handcuffed themselves there due to their spending habits.

[phantom]

How did I get here? I worked at a grocery store my jr. & sr. year in high school. After graduating high school I quit the part time job at the grocery store and I went to college for web design. After graduating from college I looked around for an entry level position related to my degree. Only coming up empty handed. Most firms and companies were looking for senior developers. Or someone that had more experience. (Not the recent grad) I even called local businesses offering to redesign their site at no charge (only stipulation was that they refer any inquiries on the design to me) Just to get a public portfolio going. Two of these businesses ended up using my design yet never gave me credit for my hard work. Unfortunately at the time I didn't draft up any contract or agreement. Instead of getting into it with them I just let it go.

Disgusted after playing the resume game for 9-12 months with no income, still living at home with mom and dad, I decided to get a full time job doing what I know best.. working at a grocery store. While I continued to look around.

But essentially I allowed myself to get stuck. They liked me so much I kept getting promoted relatively quickly. With each promotion equaled more hours and a salary increase. Paying me just enough to make me stay but not quite enough to make me say that ill be a lifer and willing to stay dealing with all the bs that goes along with it. With all the extra hours and more pay, I was complacent and ended up giving up on searching for a job related to my degree. And for the last 9 years I have only myself to blame for letting myself get "stuck".

I have been out of the loop for so long I'd have to go back to school if I decided to return to web design. Not exactly an easy feat working 6 days a week. 60+ hours. However I am considering teaching myself with what little free time I have (a lot has changed since I was in school) and maybe try some free lance work at some point.

As someone who has spent the majority of her career in web development, I'd like to encourage you not to give up on it. I made my first web site almost 20 years ago, so I've had a front row seat for the changes the web has been through. Sure, a lot has changed, but a lot has also stayed the same, especially in the last 10 years. If you've got a solid foundation in html, css, and javascript, I'd say you're more than half way to knowing everything you need to know for modern front end web development. If you also know some PHP, Java, or .NET, that's a pretty good foundation for the rest of the stack. There are a lot of web sites still using code you could have written 9 years ago, because introducing new frameworks and libraries and cleaning up the old ones takes time.

Having new frameworks and such on your resume is pretty powerful though. I'd suggest signing up for a free trial of Lynda and going through some AngularJS tutorials or whatever other fancy new web technology catches your interest. Maybe check the job listings in your area and see what skills they're looking for. If you can prove you know the stuff they're looking for, even if you don't have the experience to back you up, you should have a good shot at landing a job. Good luck to you!

[DaveInPgh]

Yup, like I said. Start working on an exit plan. That will stimulate your work day for months or years..or in Texas' scenario, 10 years.

If anything, start planning for a debt free life. You can become a changed person with little monthly obligations and a decent savings account. You don't have to be a passive aggressive employee(not saying you are one) or someone who is always in job preservation mode. Just imagine the amount of stress one needs to put up with when debt is up to their necks..and any loss of a job may put their kids on the streets.

I am essentially debt free. Like I said in prior posts, I spend part of my daily down time working on personal finances. In the past, much of the focus was paying off my mortgage. Now my focus is on my retirement planning.

My exit strategy is not a new career. It is early retirement.

[LivingAlmostLarge]

jbone have you worked on codeacademy? Or putting stuff on github? Or do you have time for networking events to make connections and get a foot in the door? Are you still single without kids? If so you have time to study. I can honestly say that because we've been through that this year.

My DH worked his behind off with two kids at home because we were betting on him. His classmates, out of 16, 4 had kids, and only 1 had kids as young as us. Not one other person had a family without income, the other 3 had working spouses and income. He put serious time in to get top marks, he beat them hands down and the only other person close to his score (they are published) even told him he'd have crushed everyone else if he didn't have a family. He took lunch to work and studied most nights till past midnight and was up at 7. No games, no time but studying. No extra hanging out every hour had function and purpose. You want this make the sacrifice. Work your 60 hours then go home and get online and refresh your skills. It can be done. Others without responsibility or pressure went out to the bar/played video games. He came home to help watch kids, cook, clean, and study.

And this middle age careeer shift since he's 38? It's been in the works for a year prior. We saved money and every decision has been planned. Selling house, saving cash, etc. I get people don't have that sort of flexibility. Even his new job. Every penny was named and we made a conscious decision to live normally without too many cuts. Again his classmates were flummoxed that we are a family living without income and not pressured to find a job.

His classmates a couple took jobs out of desperation for a paycheck. He refused to compromise. He was well paid at his last job and unhappy. This time he's picking something to make him happier. Jobs change on a dime. But if you aren't happy make a plan to change it to something you will be happy with. Without encumbrances it's so much easier.

I write this as I sit in my BIL apartment and he's unhappy but handcuffed to a very well paid job. If i had to guess at least 140k. He's longing for something else and I know he doesn't work that hard. But it's up to him to change the formula if he hates it. We've spent the weekend telling him that. And offered him the opportunity to live with us again rent free/minimal expenses while he changes careers or finds a new job. The ball is in his court. And yes I get that he's in an exceptional position of flexibility especially with our offer. So who know what he'll do but he's 36 and if he wants change he should do it now. My DH has offered him notes and he's now seen upclose what it means to give up a of money with huge risk.