What is proper and generous?

[disneysteve]

I'm going to keep paying my rents unless I am compromised such that it is a huge burden. Why should I attempt to pass on my hardship to the owner of the building?

I get what you're saying, but you can also think of it more of spreading the pain rather than one entity shouldering all of it. If every business in the strip center is dealing with decreased income due to this crisis, why shouldn't the owner of the center also share some of that? Why should they make 100% of their usual income if you and your neighbors are making 70% or 50% or 0% of your usual income? If everybody shares the impact, it benefits everyone. Better for your landlord to take a smaller cut from you temporarily than to have you go out of business and be left with a vacant space.

[TexasHusker]

I get what you're saying, but you can also think of it more of spreading the pain rather than one entity shouldering all of it. If every business in the strip center is dealing with decreased income due to this crisis, why shouldn't the owner of the center also share some of that? Why should they make 100% of their usual income if you and your neighbors are making 70% or 50% or 0% of your usual income? If everybody shares the impact, it benefits everyone. Better for your landlord to take a smaller cut from you temporarily than to have you go out of business and be left with a vacant space.

True. It would have to be pretty bad for me to feel good about asking someone else to share my burden. I don't see it happening.

[disneysteve]

True. It would have to be pretty bad for me to feel good about asking someone else to share my burden. I don't see it happening.

I can appreciate that. I'm certainly not one to ask for help either. But it would also really annoy me if I knew everyone was paying 100% rent at the same time they were struggling to keep their businesses afloat.

If I was the landlord, I'd be the guy contacting all of my tenants to proactively offer some rent relief before they even came to me to ask.

[~bs]

Disney pretty much made the points of why rent relief can be a win-win situation. Like I already mentioned, the business survival is top priority. If the business goes under, it does no one favors, not your employees, customers, vendors, landlord, etc. If giving you a couple months of relief helps you survive the lean months, it should be done. The price of rent relief is cheap compared to the property being vacant for months or years after you're gone. Vacant property also negatively affects all the other tenants because the common area costs is divided among the remaining tenants. Vacancies also reduce the foot traffic to the entire area, causing a snowballing effect of tenants going under. Again, I've run my fair share of businesses, I have experience with these types of situations. Experience helps you see the bigger picture.

It's the entire concept of why the government wants to give $1000 to people, extend unemployment insurance, sick leave, etc. Giving temporary relief now reduces the chances of these people hitting rock bottom, losing homes, etc which is MUCH harder to recover from and costs everyone a lot more in the long run. Another analogy - it's the reason why hospitals likes to focus on preventative healthcare. It's A LOT cheaper to pay up front to encourage people to live a healthier lifestyle than it is to treat heart disease and diabetes years down the road.

[Fishindude77]

I used to own a commercial building that rented for $12,000 per month. We lowered the rent to $9,000 for a full year when our tenant was going through some struggles. Helped them out and they survived.

[kork13]

I just wrote to our rental house's property manager basically offering similar -- if the tenants lose income & have trouble paying the rent, we're 100% open to reducing their rent due, or giving them extra time (unpenalized) to make the payment, or whatever else might make sense. We've had these tenants for nearly 3 years, so I'm happy to offer some grace. It's good for everyone -- I (and the prop. mgrs) keep the reliable tenants & income stream, and the tenants continue having a place to live.

That said, I also saw a news alert this morning directing a suspension in all eviction & bankruptcy proceedings (or something like that), so some of that choice to be flexible with them may be out of my hands anyway. ::shrug::

[~bs]

I just wrote to our rental house's property manager basically offering similar -- if the tenants lose income & have trouble paying the rent, we're 100% open to reducing their rent due, or giving them extra time (unpenalized) to make the payment, or whatever else might make sense. We've had these tenants for nearly 3 years, so I'm happy to offer some grace. It's good for everyone -- I (and the prop. mgrs) keep the reliable tenants & income stream, and the tenants continue having a place to live.

That said, I also saw a news alert this morning directing a suspension in all eviction & bankruptcy proceedings (or something like that), so some of that choice to be flexible with them may be out of my hands anyway. ::shrug::

I actually don't like the government trying to interfere with the private industry in this case. All it does is muddy the waters. So yes, the landlord may be prevented from evicting someone, but that doesn't mean that the full rent won't come due the day after the suspension ends. If they couldn't pay their rent through the year, there's no way they're going to be able to pay the accumulated amount. By that time, it would be difficult to ask for rent relief for an event that happened a year ago.

[TexasHusker]

A side benefit to helping my folks out will be that when the lockdown lifts, we will blow away competition with a team that is ready to go, happy, rested, and fed. I’ve already talked to one franchisee who is saying he won’t pay his teams. Oh well!

[disneysteve]

I meant to post a couple of days ago. Our daughter works for a national franchise swim school. They shut down on Saturday. They notified everyone on Tuesday that they are officially laid off so that they are able to file for unemployment benefits.

[disneysteve]

A side benefit to helping my folks out will be that when the lockdown lifts, we will blow away competition with a team that is ready to go, happy, rested, and fed.

Wouldn't that also be true if they were collecting unemployment?

I don't ask that to say you shouldn't pay them. I'm just curious.

[TexasHusker]

Wouldn't that also be true if they were collecting unemployment?

I don't ask that to say you shouldn't pay them. I'm just curious.

Yes they could perhaps collect unemployment, but those benefits are very limited and I don't want them having to deal with 1) that, and 2) the idea that my employer laid me off. I want my folks to feel valued and that we care for them. We aren't just dumping them to fend for themselves.

Additionally, this could skyrocket my company's unemployment insurance premiums, which I suppose could be a zero sum game in the end, anyway.

[disneysteve]

Yes they could perhaps collect unemployment, but those benefits are very limited and I don't want them having to deal with 1) that, and 2) the idea that my employer laid me off. I want my folks to feel valued and that we care for them. We aren't just dumping them to fend for themselves.

Additionally, this could skyrocket my company's unemployment insurance premiums, which I suppose could be a zero sum game in the end, anyway.

Sounds good. I think it's awesome if you are able to keep paying them but I also certainly understand businesses that simply can't.

[~bs]

Yes they could perhaps collect unemployment, but those benefits are very limited and I don't want them having to deal with 1) that, and 2) the idea that my employer laid me off. I want my folks to feel valued and that we care for them. We aren't just dumping them to fend for themselves.

Additionally, this could skyrocket my company's unemployment insurance premiums, which I suppose could be a zero sum game in the end, anyway.

Employees aren't stupid, they see what's going on and know how unusual the current circumstances are. If you care for them and treat them right, they'll understand.

We were forced to close down some locations due to government shutdown decree, for those employees, we granted them 4 weeks paid vacation, which they could cash immediately, use before collecting unemployment, or keep when they return back to work. We're also planning to continue covering the cost of their medical while they're in unemployment. I'd hazard a guess, most if not all of them will be back to work with us as soon as the government restriction is lifted. I'd probably argue that the benefit may be overly generous but the company can afford to do so, and the long term benefits will outweigh the short term cost.

[myrdale]

The answer is somewhere between 0 to 100%, and it is probably closer to 25 to 75%.

If you pay $0 and two weeks from now, your more valuable employees have found other jobs, there will be cost to hire and train new employees. The bare minimum would be equal to what that cost is. Even if you pay them 100%, that doesn't guarantee that they will not find a higher paying job in the mean time. So is 100% two weeks paid vacation or signing bonus for the new job?

I don't want to come across as callous and uncaring, but if someone is in their 30's or 40's and are working at a restaurant earning only $10 an hour, they have made a choice to be in a low income field.

If missing two weeks of work means you're going to lose your house / car / be evicted, this virus did not put you in a bad situation, it only brought it to light. Also there is this thing called unemployment. It is their for a reason.

I'd hope the population as a whole would reflect on the current events and realize the need for budgets, emergency funds, and general preparedness.

Also I have heard multiple reports that stores are hiring all the warehouse employees they can right now. While that too seems like a silly move to me because I would think this buying rush will be over within a week once everyone's cabinets are full, there are new jobs to be had.

[TexasHusker]

Here's my possible solution!

- Every employee is eligible for an emergency loan from XYZ Company, based upon your hours of service last year. For example, if you worked 1500 hours, we will loan you $750. After we re-open, every hour that you work for us, we will start forgiving a portion of that loan, and once you have worked another 1500 hours for us, it will be forgiven in full.

When you return to work, you will receive your pay as you always have, and we will have no deductions for the loan, as your work for us is credited to you as payment. Now, if you resign or are terminated after we resume operations and you have received a loan, the balance of that loan, after credits for hours worked has been applied, will be due and payable to XYZ Company, and will be withheld from your final check.