Separation advice

[Petunia 100]

Iowa is not a community property state; it is an equitable distribution state.

Oh, there's a third kind? I did not know that. So the NOLO site is all wrong?

Are you an attorney, Tulog? In your opinion, is the NOLO site generally a good place to look things up, or a place to avoid?

[tulog]

This is the information I found: http://www.nolo.com/legal-encycloped...bts-29572.html

No, you are correct, and I misread. But I am going to be a pedantic pain in the ass, and take issue with Nolo (and the IRS, etc) who use that term in the context of describing how a state divides property.

The better term for those states that do not have community property is 'equitable distribution' state. To understand the factors under which property is divided equitably (Iowa Code: 598.21):

http://coolice.legis.iowa.gov/cool-ice/default.asp?category=billinfo&service=iowacode&input=598

"... 5. Division of property. The court shall divide all
property, except inherited property or gifts received or expected by
one party, equitably between the parties after considering all of the
following:
a. The length of the marriage.
b. The property brought to the marriage by each party.
c. The contribution of each party to the marriage, giving
appropriate economic value to each party's contribution in homemaking
and child care services.
d. The age and physical and emotional health of the parties.

e. The contribution by one party to the education, training,
or increased earning power of the other.
f. The earning capacity of each party, including educational
background, training, employment skills, work experience, length of
absence from the job market, custodial responsibilities for children,
and the time and expense necessary to acquire sufficient education or
training to enable the party to become self-supporting at a standard
of living reasonably comparable to that enjoyed during the marriage.

g. The desirability of awarding the family home or the right
to live in the family home for a reasonable period to the party
having custody of the children, or if the parties have joint legal
custody, to the party having physical care of the children.
h. The amount and duration of an order granting support
payments to either party pursuant to section 598.21A and whether the
property division should be in lieu of such payments.
i. Other economic circumstances of each party, including
pension benefits, vested or unvested. Future interests may be
considered, but expectancies or interests arising from inherited or
gifted property created under a will or other instrument under which
the trustee, trustor, trust protector, or owner has the power to
remove the party in question as a beneficiary, shall not be
considered.
j. The tax consequences to each party.
k. Any written agreement made by the parties concerning
property distribution.
l. The provisions of an antenuptial agreement.
m. Other factors the court may determine to be relevant in an
individual case...."

[shaggy]

Yes, but - remember that the divorce or legal separation process takes months, and you will have to give two sets of financial disclosures, one at filing the divorce, and a second set later. Consider making your liquid financial position look as weak as possible to minimize husband's ability to argue for increased spousal support.

In general, don't get too complacent or comfortable until the court issues a final decree.

That is not my experience.

The "date of separation" as recorded in the separation document is one specific date that does not change in the myriad of documents filed during the process.

All of my income AFTER the date of separation did not have to be disclosed.

[tulog]

Oh, there's a third kind? I did not know that. So the NOLO site is all wrong?

Are you an attorney, Tulog? In your opinion, is the NOLO site generally a good place to look things up, or a place to avoid?

No, but I'm taking the bar this month.

I don't like this Nolo page:

"Debts are owed by both spouses only if the debt benefits the marriage"

This makes it sound like magic. Nolo's style is legal concepts for the general public. The trade-off, at least in this case, is less precise legal expression. Maybe other Nolo pages are better; I don't know.

[tulog]

That is not my experience.

The "date of separation" as recorded in the separation document is one specific date that does not change in the myriad of documents filed during the process.

All of my income AFTER the date of separation did not have to be disclosed.

What if you want to settle a case out of court?

And the other side wants an updated financial disclosure prior to settlement? Would you refuse and go to court instead?

[shaggy]

What if you want to settle a case out of court?

And the other side wants an updated financial disclosure prior to settlement? Would you refuse and go to court instead?

We did settle outside of court, and my attorney told my Ex's attorney that they didn't have the right to get a disclosure of anything after the separation date. Had we gone to court, the court would have agreed (per my divorce attorney) that I didn't have to disclose anything after the separation date.

I am in a community property state; I'm sure the law is different elsewhere. But one reason the separation date is key is because any assets acquired or earned after that date are not marital property (and therefore, are none of the other spouse's concern). In general the moneyed spouse argues for an earlier separation date and the non-working spouse argues for a later date.

[tulog]

A state limiting such disclosure is a benefit to the higher-earning spouse.

[riverwed070707]

All interesting points and I appreciate all the input. I guess I'm not overly concerned with trying to protect a few thousand dollars, more concerned about the short term damage that could be done with irresponsible spending. Closing the joint CC today, and I will look at getting my checks deposited in an individual account for the sake of a safe efund but the truth is I really don't have any intention of cutting him off before he gets on his feet and I don't want him to have to ask me for money if he needs it -- within reason I suppose. Ultimately, I really don't think we will divorce (famous last words??) and our assets are minimal so there isn't much to protect at this point. What I care about most is him getting some professional help and that my daughter is able to come out of this with little suffering. DH was a SAHD so instantly this is a huge change for her Feeling a bit lost and hoping with every bit of my being that I've made the right decision.

[bjl584]

All interesting points and I appreciate all the input. I guess I'm not overly concerned with trying to protect a few thousand dollars, more concerned about the short term damage that could be done with irresponsible spending. Closing the joint CC today, and I will look at getting my checks deposited in an individual account for the sake of a safe efund but the truth is I really don't have any intention of cutting him off before he gets on his feet and I don't want him to have to ask me for money if he needs it -- within reason I suppose. Ultimately, I really don't think we will divorce (famous last words??) and our assets are minimal so there isn't much to protect at this point. What I care about most is him getting some professional help and that my daughter is able to come out of this with little suffering. DH was a SAHD so instantly this is a huge change for her Feeling a bit lost and hoping with every bit of my being that I've made the right decision.

My parents divorced when I was young. I believe I was 6. To be honest, it haunted me for a long time afterwards, and even today it has shaped some of my feelings and attitudes toward different things. Their divorce was quite messy though. My best advice is to keep your daughter away from any and all discussions concerning the separation and possible divorce. And never ever bad mouth her father in front of her. Hopefully your husband won't bad mouth you in front of her. I had to endure that from both sides and it really took a huge toll on me.

[riverwed070707]

My parents divorced when I was young. I believe I was 6. To be honest, it haunted me for a long time afterwards, and even today it has shaped some of my feelings and attitudes toward different things. Their divorce was quite messy though. My best advice is to keep your daughter away from any and all discussions concerning the separation and possible divorce. And never ever bad mouth her father in front of her. Hopefully your husband won't bad mouth you in front of her. I had to endure that from both sides and it really took a huge toll on me.

I know how that goes. Been through it a few times with my parents and I defintely wouldn't put her in that situation. I like to think DH is mature enough to do the same.

[tulog]

You mention a minor child. I assume you now have additional parental responsibilities after husband moved out. You should keep a log book of your interactions with the child (any daily activities that you do for or with your child). This can be useful in any custody discussions, or introduced as evidence in a custody dispute.

[Petunia 100]

No, but I'm taking the bar this month.

I don't like this Nolo page:

"Debts are owed by both spouses only if the debt benefits the marriage"

This makes it sound like magic. Nolo's style is legal concepts for the general public. The trade-off, at least in this case, is less precise legal expression. Maybe other Nolo pages are better; I don't know.

This legal stuff is so confusing. I'm glad there are people out there who like it.

Good luck on the bar exam!

[Petunia 100]

All interesting points and I appreciate all the input. I guess I'm not overly concerned with trying to protect a few thousand dollars, more concerned about the short term damage that could be done with irresponsible spending. Closing the joint CC today, and I will look at getting my checks deposited in an individual account for the sake of a safe efund but the truth is I really don't have any intention of cutting him off before he gets on his feet and I don't want him to have to ask me for money if he needs it -- within reason I suppose. Ultimately, I really don't think we will divorce (famous last words??) and our assets are minimal so there isn't much to protect at this point. What I care about most is him getting some professional help and that my daughter is able to come out of this with little suffering. DH was a SAHD so instantly this is a huge change for her Feeling a bit lost and hoping with every bit of my being that I've made the right decision.

{{hugs}}

I hope your husband gets the help he needs and the three of you are able to put your family back together, better and stronger than before.

[tulog]

This legal stuff is so confusing. I'm glad there are people out there who like it.

Good luck on the bar exam!

Thanks!

[snafu]

I'm so sorry about this turn of events. I'm glad you are taking the 1st small steps to protect assets. I too add a voice to encourage you to grab a notebook 'log.' You need to note date and an identifier [name/ staff number] of each individual you speak to to close joint accounts, credit cards, lawyer/assistant, legal services, divorce counsellor etc and their contact number and keep it all in one, easily portable place. If you like to use Post Its just add them to the notebook.

I suggest adding question that occur to the back pages, easily found and ticked when you have the answer.

Sending best wishes in this difficult, stressful period for the bet possible outcome