Doesn't anybody fix anything any more?

[bUU]

Actually, to at least some extent, that's exactly what we're talking about. Look at my original example with the hole punch.

Yes, let's look at your original example, because I know how to clean out the crumbs from a toaster - I have no idea how to fix a hole punch.

And I'm not going to apologize for that!

All the thing needed was a tap with a hammer and a squirt of oil and voila, it worked perfectly fine, but my assistant was all set to toss it in the trash and buy a new one.

I promise you, if I start tapping on things with a hammer and squirting oil into things, I'm going to cause far more problems than I'd solve. Not that I'd do this (because I wouldn't even dream of trying such things) but I bet you wouldn't want me tapping on things with a hammer or squirting oil into the photocopier to fix a paper jam - which, admittedly, is something I just happened to be able to fix, but let's say it wasn't. But that's the sort of thing you really have to keep in mind when thinking about what non-mechanically-inclined folks start venturing into the areas where they don't belong. And reflexively, I wouldn't allow some of my mechanically-inclined folks anywhere near the church's website control panel or style sheets or email distribution system. And I wouldn't let some mechanically-inclined folks message around with the garam masala or sriracha.

But getting back to it, we surely do need to differentiate between cleaning the crumbs out from a toaster and, say, unsticking the plunger thing that make the toaster toast. If you cannot see the difference between those two things, then you're far too skilled to understand what it means to be unskilled.

[disneysteve]

I promise you, if I start tapping on things with a hammer and squirting oil into things, I'm going to cause far more problems than I'd solve.

But that's the sort of thing you really have to keep in mind when thinking about what non-mechanically-inclined folks start venturing into the areas where they don't belong.

Absolutely. I think I said earlier that I didn't expect her to fix it herself. I did expect her to say, "Hey, the hole punch is jammed. Can you take a look at it or see if we need to order a new one?"

My point is not that everybody should be able to fix everything. I certainly can't. Despite this thread, I'm not the most mechanically-inclined guy as my wife will attest. My point is that people need to get out of the "It's broke; buy a new one" mindset. It is wasteful, expensive, and bad for the environment. Much better to get into the "It's broke; let's find out if it can be fixed before we throw it out" mindset.

[cypher1]

I promise you, if I start tapping on things with a hammer and squirting oil into things, I'm going to cause far more problems than I'd solve. Not that I'd do this (because I wouldn't even dream of trying such things) but I bet you wouldn't want me tapping on things with a hammer or squirting oil into the photocopier to fix a paper jam - which, admittedly, is something I just happened to be able to fix, but let's say it wasn't. But that's the sort of thing you really have to keep in mind when thinking about what non-mechanically-inclined folks start venturing into the areas where they don't belong.

You say you fixed a paper jam on your photocopier/printer. Do you have a background in desktop support or any kind of experience with those type of repairs? If not, you must have had some concept of how that device works besides pressing a button and magically expecting a piece paper with an image to come out, whether you're mechanically inclined or not. So a paper jam lights on display with an error code, and may have even flashed in what area to look at. Expert or not, taking the initiative and actually looking for the jam I'm assuming wasn't too difficult to do. It's not like we're apes swinging a bone against a printer like something out of 2001: A Space Odyssey.

In DisneySteve's situation with a hole puncher, I get what he means by not expecting someone else to be an expert on figuring out whats wrong it. But may be take an extra 60 seconds to TRY and see why it's not working, than saying "It's broken, just replace it."

[cypher1]

LOL sorry DS. I didn't realize I basically just repeated what you said yesterday

[JoeP]

Everyone has their gifts. If you don't have the ability to fix a hole punch, before you go out and buy a new one, why not ask a co-worker or friend to take a look? You might be surprised how something that looks like an insurmountable challenge to you is trivial to someone with the right talents...plus it might save you a couple bucks and keep something out of a landfill.

[~bs]

At my office today, somebody went to use the hole punch and it jammed. The immediate response was to tell the person who orders supplies to get a new one. Nobody bothered to try and fix it. Nobody bothered to see if something had gotten stuck. Nobody bothered to try lubricating the spring. It's broken. Buy a new one.

Obviously, I didn't like that answer. When I had a break in my schedule, I took the hole punch, grabbed a hammer and screwdriver, and unjammed the stuck part. I worked it up and down a few times. I want to grease it a bit but need to bring in some WD-40 from home, but even without that, it is working again just fine. It took me less than 5 minutes and no advanced mechanical knowledge and saved us from trashing a perfectly good item and spending $15 or so to buy a new one.

It just boggles my mind how wasteful people are both with stuff and with money.

Well my 7 year old computer just broke. I know what the problem is, the power supply. But I'd rather just go and buy a new one than to spend money and hope it fixes the problem. Because all the other components are also 7 years old, it makes me wonder what will let go next. Sometimes it's not worth it to throw time and money after something.

But that's typically how I am. I'll use something until it breaks, then buy a new one. My LCD tv is also 6 years old. I dont plan on getting a new one until it breaks. And I'm sure not going to waste money trying to install an new backlight bulb or attempt other diagnostic work. I might not be the ultimate in saving money, but I also don't replace/buy new things on a whim either.

I did waste a sh*tload of time trying to fix a broken printer though, when I should have bought a new one. I was cleaning the printer heads with alc. swabs, etc etc. which temporarily fixed it in the past. But home printers simply aren't meant to have reams and reams of paper run through it (apparently). So I ended up buying a new printer.

[bUU]

It's not like we're apes swinging a bone against a printer like something out of 2001: A Space Odyssey. ... In DisneySteve's situation with a hole puncher, I get what he means by not expecting someone else to be an expert on figuring out whats wrong it. But may be take an extra 60 seconds to TRY and see why it's not working, than saying "It's broken, just replace it."

I already addressed that. It's management's responsibility to tell people who's job it is to handle the fix or repair decision. If they abrogate that responsibility then all fault rests with them, regardless of who's involved. This is a fundamental tenet of quality management.

If you don't have the ability to fix a hole punch, before you go out and buy a new one, why not ask a co-worker or friend to take a look?

I also relayed earlier why it would be inappropriate to foist such problems on others in our office situation. Steve's example works well only in his very specific situation, with himself there, in a very small office of about five people I believe. Otherwise, there are fundamental problems with the idea.

[JoeP]

I also relayed earlier why it would be inappropriate to foist such problems on others in our office situation. Steve's example works well only in his very specific situation, with himself there, in a very small office of about five people I believe. Otherwise, there are fundamental problems with the idea.

Such as... ?

[disneysteve]

It's management's responsibility to tell people who's job it is to handle the fix or repair decision.

I agree, which is why if something breaks, the person who discovers the broken item should report it to the appropriate person if he or she can't fix it, not just order a new one.

[krantcents]

I had a similar problem with a stapler. I removed the jammed staple and it works fine. Many products are so cheap we just replace vs. thinking about fixing it. The replacement for the stapler is $7. How much time should I spend fixing it?

[Gailete]

I already addressed that. It's management's responsibility to tell people who's job it is to handle the fix or repair decision. If they abrogate that responsibility then all fault rests with them, regardless of who's involved. This is a fundamental tenet of quality management.

As I mentioned before, I have at times crawled under hospital beds to see if I could figure out what was wrong. Not because management had told me it was my responsibility, but because I worked second shift when there was no maintenance person in the hospital. If I didn'ty try to get the bed working again, then either I would have to try to get someone to come in and look at it, costing the hospital overtime dollars, or we would have had a difficult situation for the patient and their nurse if not a potentially dangerous one. So I fixed it. Many times the other nurses would call on me to see if I could get things going again and I usually could. Sometime it just makes sense to see what can be done first before calling in a repair person or buying something new. I never have minded seeing if I could fix things. I don't get to very often anymore since I married a man that seems to have a hammer and screwdriver attached to the ends of his arms. If he doesn't know how to fix things he researches ways to do it. It is something that a self employed person can do to keep costs down. Not saying everyone has that 'talent' but for some things the only talent needed is observation and a willingness to learn something new.

[Jon Spiels]

Exactly

Well, it's same as saying that "prevention is better than cure". As always if we can still fix something then it's best to do it right away than to make the situation worst or be completely broken and have no chance to fix at all. Always been, a real life application for me. lol

[bUU]

I'm getting the feeling that some folks are skipping past what I'm writing and just posting replies without regard to what they're replying to.

Such as... ?

Such as those I outlined earlier in the thread.

I agree, which is why if something breaks, the person who discovers the broken item should report it to the appropriate person if he or she can't fix it, not just order a new one.

I'm very sure that we've already covered that ground above.

It's all fine and good to disagree, but just because you disagree doesn't mean that that which you disagreed with wasn't posted, and doesn't mean that that which you disagreed with isn't still part of the (reasonable) argument being made by a (reasonable) person you're conversing with. If you cannot move forward respecting something you disagreed with, then your line of inquiry must necessarily stop, because you've prohibited yourself from understanding anything else the person you disagreed with will be saying to you. You've reached a point where all we can do is agree to disagree.

This is a discussion about waste. Pursuing lines of inquiry after ignoring or otherwise setting aside the foundational points the person you're asking for details from already posted is absolutely wasteful.

[bUU]

As I mentioned before, I have at times crawled under hospital beds to see if I could figure out what was wrong. Not because management had told me it was my responsibility, but because I worked second shift when there was no maintenance person in the hospital. If I didn'ty try to get the bed working again, then either I would have to try to get someone to come in and look at it, costing the hospital overtime dollars, or we would have had a difficult situation for the patient and their nurse if not a potentially dangerous one. So I fixed it.

My background is manufacturing and software (and hospitality, but that's another matter), so perhaps hospitals are much less stringent than factories about requirements for recording of problems and for ensuring that all repairs are performed by qualified staff, records of such qualifications reviewed and approved by management on an ongoing basis. During the 1980s and 1990s, I audited hundreds of companies, and what you've described, absent other details, is a violation of standards that all operations were obligated to operate in accordance with, regardless of industry (as far as I knew).

I do remember a number of companies I audited had people who apparently got their rocks off ignoring the standards and just doing whatever they personally thought was right, regardless, but that's just one of two ways of doing things, and generally the one, in my experience, that resulted in problems, and incidentally, sanctions. So my professional experience colors my view of what you're describing.

The point here isn't that you did something wrong - you didn't - the hospital did, by putting you in the position you were in by not having a qualified maintenance person on duty or not otherwise prompting you to call one in to fix the problem rather than trying to fix it yourself (that is, of course, unless they certified you as qualified to perform repair work).

Within the context of this discussion, there is no merit in all the bad-mouthing I've read of people who conduct themselves in accordance with reasonable and responsible standards for the workplace, i.e., those who defer to management to set the policies and procedures for maintenance and repair.

And if I ever catch anyone working for me cutting corners like that (doing work that our management hasn't qualified them to perform, because we didn't resource our work properly), they won't appreciate the response they get. It won't be praise, I assure you.

[disneysteve]

requirements for recording of problems and for ensuring that all repairs are performed by qualified staff, records of such qualifications reviewed and approved by management on an ongoing basis. During the 1980s and 1990s, I audited hundreds of companies, and what you've described, absent other details, is a violation of standards

I do remember a number of companies I audited had people who apparently got their rocks off ignoring the standards and just doing whatever they personally thought was right

The point here isn't that you did something wrong - you didn't - the hospital did, by putting you in the position you were in by not having a qualified maintenance person on duty or not otherwise prompting you to call one in to fix the problem rather than trying to fix it yourself (that is, of course, unless they certified you as qualified to perform repair work).

And if I ever catch anyone working for me cutting corners like that (doing work that our management hasn't qualified them to perform, because we didn't resource our work properly), they won't appreciate the response they get. It won't be praise, I assure you.

Ah, now I see the issue. You are looking at this through an entirely different lens than I am. It is very true that corporate bureaucracy and government regulations often attempt to dictate every aspect of the work environment, from repairing a hospital bed to changing a light bulb. There was a great book a number of years ago called "The Death of Common Sense: How Law is Suffocating America." We have become a nation of weenies, afraid to try anything, afraid to do anything outside of our comfort zone because we might fail, we might break something, we might get sued. The result is the mindset that you describe. If it isn't your job, don't do it. If you aren't a factory-certified hospital bed technician, don't you dare touch that bed.

I live outside of Philadelphia. The Philly Convention Center is a beautiful modern facility that has struggled greatly over the years because of this type of mindset. As a result, convention organizers who hold events in Philly once typically vow to never come back. Let's say you are having a trade show. If a vendor has a lamp as part of his display, he is not allowed to lean over and plug it in. Nope, no can do. He is required by law to call a union electrician to plug that lamp in for him. And, of course, he must pay union wages for that task. If the vendor also has a display that needs to be screwed together, can he just pull out a screwdriver and do the job? Not a chance. He needs to call a union mechanic to come assemble it, for an additional cost.

If we all followed all of these inane regulations we'd be left sitting in the dark waiting for a licensed electrician to come every time a light bulb burned out.

I'm currently serving as President of a 500-family synagogue congregation. We are a decent sized organization with a $1.5 million annual operating budget. We have plenty of full time staff including an administrator, bookkeeper, education staff, etc. If I happen to see an overflowing trash can in our social hall, do you think I go get the custodian? Not a chance. I pull out the full bag and replace it with an empty bag. Why? Because I can. Is that in my job description as President? Of course not. Am I trained and certified in waste disposal? Of course not. But I would feel absolutely ridiculous if I had to go ask someone else to take out the trash for me. If I see a job that needs doing, and I'm capable of doing it, I do it. That's the way life used to be. We often hear people complaining about there being a lack of work ethic in this country. It is stuff like this that created that poor work ethic. We used to value and reward folks who had drive, took initiative, and got things done. Now we punish them. "Do your job and just your job. If it isn't specifically stated in your job description, don't do it."