Negotiate a used car help please

**bjl584** · 03-05-2012, 06:09 AM

I would rethink the idea of buying a 2010 Mazda only to sel it in 2 to 3 years.

But,
If a dealer won't deal on price of the car, then try to deal on amount for your trade in. Or try to get a free or discounted extended warranty.

They are marking up that car a few thousand dollars most likely. Look on Auto Trader and on KBB to get a better idea what the car is actually worth.

I would not buy a used car over email. Go look at it, drive it, take it to your mechanic to inspect.

**LivingAlmostLarge** · 03-05-2012, 08:54 AM

Why reconsider selling it after a few years? I don't want a full size minivan, but I don't want to buy a new car. This is something in between for a few years.

Is it normal to ask the dealership to take a used car to your mechanic? What if it's 30 miles away from where you live? Just take it to a reputable mechanic in the same city to look at?

**bjl584** · 03-05-2012, 09:50 AM

Originally posted by LivingAlmostLarge View Post

Why reconsider selling it after a few years? I don't want a full size minivan, but I don't want to buy a new car. This is something in between for a few years.

Is it normal to ask the dealership to take a used car to your mechanic? What if it's 30 miles away from where you live? Just take it to a reputable mechanic in the same city to look at?

If you only want to keep a car a few years, then why not just buy a beater. Or just keep your current car and continue to save money over the next few years. It's a bad financial practice to roll cars over often. You will almost certainly lose out when you go to trade the Mazda in due to depreciation.

You may need to find a closer mechanic, but I wouldn think that most dealers will work with you if you are a serious buyer.

**riverwed070707** · 03-05-2012, 09:54 AM

Confused about why you're so specific on the type of car when you're only going to have it a couple years... likely the best way you're going to find a deal is if you can be a little flexible in what you're looking for. Dealers are going to give you a deal if they got a deal, not just to make a sale. There is no benefit to them to sell it to you if they aren't getting their money's worth. Also have to keep in mind that demand for used cars is up so if you're looking at something that's only 2 years old but those cars are still selling like hotcakes, you're not going to have much negotiating room. On the lot for 2 months means nothing -- its cold and car sales slow in winter. It will move once the weather warms up.

**thekid** · 03-05-2012, 10:13 AM

I'd never buy a used car without having a good look at it (the condition will vary from car to car), test drive it and have it inspected by a reputable mechanic. I'd just have it inspected by a nearby Mazda dealership.

Personally, I'd go visit both. Make sure you have a good look at tire and brake wear (wear is money and you should take that into account in your price). Car No.2 costs roughly 600$ more and has roughly 12k miles less. That's almost one year less (on average) of use, seems decent for 600$. If that car is in good overall condition, I'd be tempted to put in an offer. I'd go for 13k$ firm, subject to inspection. You want to start lower, go ahead.

As mentionned by others, owning a car for only a few years will end up costing you substantially more than owning it for longer periods, even with used cars. When you buy, you pay marked up dealer prices. When you sell (unless you sell yourself), you will get a price that's discounted on dealer prices. Also, you may incur sales taxes when you buy. The less years you spread those costs over, the pricier the car will be per year of use (and the price of a car is it's real cost (purchase price, incl. taxes + maintenance - resale price) per year of ownership. Obviously, if the extra cost is worth it to you to fit your needs, that's fine.

**nalidixic** · 03-05-2012, 10:37 AM

I wouldn't buy a used vehicle from a dealer unless they bargain down the sticker price. They mark it up and expect you to bargain it down. Either way they still make money on it.

**MonkeyMama** · 03-05-2012, 12:12 PM

I don't agree much on the used car "for just a few years" comments. If you want to own a car for just a few years, definitely don't go new. & if you go really old, sure it won't depreciate as much (less to depreciate), but it will likely have more problems. Just, more risk. I don't find that used cars depreciate all that much in 2-3 years time whether they are a couple of years old or five years old, honestly.

That's the thing if you buy a car like you are looking at. The *big* depreciation hit has already been taken.

{I've sold a couple of cars long before their time, for different reasons. It really wasn't a big deal. Note, I got awesome deals on all my vehicles, and I didn't necessarily buy up just because I had to sell a perfectly good car. I just calculated my depreciation rate on my first 3 cars - average $333/year. Big whoop. Not that you will get away that cheap. But if $1000/year is worth driving the car you want - and you aren't going to put a bajiliion miles on it - that will really rack up the depreciation - then buy the car you want and sell it later. I don't see what the problem is}.

**MonkeyMama** · 03-05-2012, 12:17 PM

P.S. I am all about the beaters, but only would buy a beater if that was all I could afford. To me, that is the point of the beater. The length of time I planned to own the car doesn't really factor, for me.

**thekid** · 03-05-2012, 12:30 PM

Originally posted by MonkeyMama View Post

I don't agree much on the used car "for just a few years" comments. If you want to own a car for just a few years, definitely don't go new. & if you go really old, sure it won't depreciate as much (less to depreciate), but it will likely have more problems. Just, more risk. I don't find that used cars depreciate all that much in 2-3 years time whether they are a couple of years old or five years old, honestly.

That's the thing if you buy a car like you are looking at. The *big* depreciation hit has already been taken.

{I've sold a couple of cars long before their time, for different reasons. It really wasn't a big deal. Note, I got awesome deals on all my vehicles, and I didn't necessarily buy up just because I had to sell a perfectly good car. I just calculated my depreciation rate on my first 3 cars - average $333/year. Big whoop. Not that you will get away that cheap. But if $1000/year is worth driving the car you want - and you aren't going to put a bajiliion miles on it - that will really rack up the depreciation - then buy the car you want and sell it later. I don't see what the problem is}.

Wow on the 333$ a year depreciation! That's like a 28$ a month lease.

My comments on the hit being greater when you own a car for only a few years wasn't really relating to the depreciation rate (as it's a used car and the rate of depreciation should be pretty flat after the initial years), rather I was refering to the extra costs that are sales tax (if applicable) and loss on the spread from dealers selling price (when you buy) and buying price (when you trade in a few years later). If those extras are amortized on only a few years, it can make a noticeable difference on your yearly price of ownership. Then again, if no sales tax are applicable or if the person sells the car by themselves and gets close to market value, then my comments don't apply.

A quick example: if the KBB value is $13k today and $9k in 2 years, there is an annual depreciation of 2 grand. However, if you trade in in two years, you will probably be offered $7k. Your yearly cost is now $3k. The $1k spread will be amortized thinner the more years you keep the car. Same for sales tax. Of course, the OP could be perfectly justified to decide to take on that extra expense if holding the car for 2-3 fits her plans better and she is willing to pay extra for that. It's simply an extra cost to consider in the decision making.

**LivingAlmostLarge** · 03-05-2012, 12:58 PM

Brian I have a beater and I wouldn't do a trade in but a sale private party. The depreciation is about $1k/year so a 2007 is still $10-11k. I figure the biggest hits the first 2 years. It was owned by a rental car company.

River, I want something more sliding doors and possibly seats 6. I guess I could look for something else, but I want something practical and I'm not sure I want a sedan. So if I am willing to be flexible but just search on price and age, what should I do? Say all cars around 2-3 years old between $8k and $12k?

Thekid, thanks for pointing out the 12k less miles for $500 less. Something to really consider. I haven't looked at that car yet but did check out the $12.8k car. I am okay with the depreciation hit. I haven't seen really any in my area for sale private party is the problem I am running into. I have only seen on craigslist dealers. I'd do a private party if I could find one.

MM hit it exactly. I figured used was the way to go since I am not running it into the ground like the one I have. With depreciation and taxes and what I will sell my "beater" for I will likely pay $10k/13 years = $769/year only oil changes and one brake job. My corolla has 120k miles and I bet another 10 years in it as a beater. I have to warm it up to open the doors, some doors don't open, so I put my kid in between the front seats this winter I can't imagine that with one in a bucket and a second kid.

Minimal costs, but it is getting to the age when money will need to be put in and I want something newer with better safety features for the kiddos. Couple of things I want/not need side airbags, latch,power door locks/windows and slightly more leg room for 2 kids. Nothing fancy and I am looking now because I want a deal and I have until summer really or longer.

I feel sometimes so guilty getting rid of car that runs and isn't broken yet. It's very difficult to reconcile not being 100% frugal and getting a different vehicle. I am still driving my first car and I wonder when will it really break? It would be easier if it did then I'd be forced into a decision, but at the rate it goes it makes it harder and harder.

**thekid** · 03-05-2012, 01:05 PM

We typically change our cars when they hit the 7-8 year mark. It's not about paying the less possible per year of ownership, it's about understanding costs and deciding what we are comfortable in spending for what we get. I would not feel guilty if I was you. I think it's about making reasoned decisions after you understand what you pay and what you get, not spending the least money possible.

**frugalgirl** · 03-05-2012, 02:31 PM

I bought a used van in the summer of 2010. I narrowed down what I wanted to two models and then searched for those models in my price range. I then narrowed my search down to the dealers that had the lowest mileage cars in my price range. I emailed each one, told them I was going to look on a certain date and the best deal would get my business. They all called me back. I took my cousin with me as he knows a lot about cars and just made me feel more confident. After the phone calls, I got a good feel for which dealerships were being honest and had a good car and which one was just trying to b.s. me. I also got them to give me their best price over the phone and via email so I knew I wasn't going to be in for a long haggling process which I did not want to deal with. The one dealership that would not give me a price at all, I did not bother going to. The dealership I went with had a 30-day warranty on the car so, if it didn't pass inspection or something went wrong within the 30 day period, the repairs were covered. I had to have the car inspected by the state I lived in right away so I was protected if the mechanic found any problems.

**LivingAlmostLarge** · 03-05-2012, 04:33 PM

I do sort of consider it like leasing thekid. I view it as my rental for 3 years but doing it not on a traditional lease but an older car "lease". I think it's pretty reasonable and affordable at $100/month potentially.

Frgualgirl how much below sticker did you get? How did you negotiate? What sort of price to KBB did you get?

I found that the car #1 I looked at has been on the lot 60 days and typically they try to move it within 30-45. They dropped the price supposedly this weekend by $1k to move it faster. Not sure if that's true or not. When I said I had to think about it and talk with my DH they said they can't guarantee it wouldn't be taken back to auction or sold at that price.

Ugh, I hate trying to get out of car dealerships.

**bjl584** · 03-06-2012, 04:50 AM

According to KBB:

A Mazda5 three years from now assuming normal driving of 12,000 miles a year will be worth $8700 on trade assuming it is in excellent condition. If you pay around $13,000 for your Mazda5, then you are looking at a depreciation of $4300 in 3 years. If you are okay with that, then go for it. If that doesn't sound appealing, then rethink your plan.

Sale to private party may yield you an extra couple thousand, IF you can sell it in a timely manner. Everything sells eventually, but with cars over 10K, it can take a while. Prepare for a tidal wave of lowball offers and people unable to secure financing. It gets frustrating. Trust me, I know.

Negotiate a used car help please