Go back to school?

[snafu]

I understand 'for profit' schools but a two year program charging the same rates as a 4 years, degree granting institution isn't comparable. You are paying double for half the courses and I won't go into the differences of credentials of instructors. The fact that it was denied accreditation by NLNAC is telling. Finally, you must verify with potential employers that they would accept candidates with training from Carrington since future training or special training would be compromised.

Other institutions usually will not accept DeVry/Carrington [2 yr] credentials.

[adstalker]

I would personally not take out ANY debt for ANY education, if I knew back then what I know now. I would also say that nursing is a good profession, but extremely demanding. It can mean night shifts (as my in-law has), which can run 12 hrs. It can also wash a lot of people out of the profession, because of the demands and challenging hours and pressure it can put on a family.

HOWEVER...from what I hear, around here the pay starts in the mid-high 40k area- and increases dramatically. It can mean some really good health insurance benefits, as well. Plus, there is the prestige of the job, and a ton of openings despite the recession. I see them advertised all the time.

If you got the degree in massage, I personally would use what I earned first, before considering other education. I too was tempted to return to school despite having basically two BA degrees, but while it may SEEM like it is a guarantee of a job, it is not. Plus, usually there is the debt you rack up returning to college or any kind of trade school.

I totally agree with frugal. Like I was saying earlier you can make very good money as a massage therapist if you open your own business. On the lines of what frugal is saying, I would not recommend going back to school, taking out additional student loans, spending more time not working, and coming out with a degree that doesnt 100% garuntee you a job upon graduation.

One of my friends graduated UCSD as an economics major with 60k of student debt. He couldnt find a job, so he went to devry and got his masters in accounting for another 30k of student debt. Now days he has almost 100k of student loans, cant find a decent paying job, and still live at home with his parents.

[gambler2075]

I was looking through salaries of different professions and I had always known about the bimodal distribution of salaries for lawyers, but I had no idea that some of them make such a small amount of money. Wow. 40K$ to 60K$ for an attorney? Unreal.

Empirical Legal Studies: Distribution of 2006 Starting Salaries: Best Graphic Chart of the Year



g

[adstalker]

I was looking through salaries of different professions and I had always known about the bimodal distribution of salaries for lawyers, but I had no idea that some of them make such a small amount of money. Wow. 40K$ to 60K$ for an attorney? Unreal.

Empirical Legal Studies: Distribution of 2006 Starting Salaries: Best Graphic Chart of the Year



g

Just becasuse you are a doctor or a lawyer doesnt automatically garuntee you to make a lot of money. You have to be actually good at what you do.

[BuckyBadger]

Just becasuse you are a doctor or a lawyer doesnt automatically garuntee you to make a lot of money. You have to be actually good at what you do.

And you have to choose not to work for a nonprofit.

[papa_squat]

Hey again! I remember your introduction post. I know you have a wife and baby to support and you are still trying to get out of some consumer debt. Changing careers now could potentially end badly if you rack up further debt, sacrifice a paying job for more student loans and less time with the family just to come out overworked and under-inspired in the end.

Not saying that it will happen that way, but I think you should look back at your state of mind when you first . Why did you choose massage therapy? Did you feel confident in it? Did you feel like it was a silly idea then? This isn't meant to be a trick question. What struck me in what you just wrote is this: "It is my goal to some day have my own practice, running a one-man outfit or possibly working alongside other Massage Therapists, or have people under me. "

But directly after that, you voiced doubts and started talking about nursing. Why does massage therapy suddenly feel like a fantasy for you now? You clearly completed the program and got the skill set. Why are you suddenly now second-guessing yourself? I know that jobs are hard to find and you have the debt repayment to work on, but you shouldn't decide to turn back on a dream just because another career suddenly seems more "realistic." If you do decide to learn more and shadow a nurse and decide that this is truly right for you, then I could absolutely understand why you'd pursue it. But if you chose massage and truly still want to do that, why take on more debt, sacrifice time with your family and delay your career for an assumed higher paycheck?

You may be thinking about security of your family first (which is great), but you also need to do what's right for you. It is not impossible to make a career out of massage therapy if that's you main concern. I see a massage therapist once a month at my well being heath center (chiropractic, massage therapy, spa therapy, yoga). She also teaches yoga classes at the well-being center. She tells me often that she loves her work. I live in WA and more than a handful of people in my office goes to this same well being center. It's not an unrealistic career.

Whatever you decide, you don't ever need to think it's too late to change careers. If you have any doubts at all about what you truly want in a career, consider that you can always pursue nursing. If get your necessary licenses to work massage therapy and in five years decide that you want to pursue the nursing school after all, you can still do it and at least during that five years you'll have an income to pay down your debts and support your family. Does your wife plan to go back to work once your daughter is older? By then, your daughter will also be entering school and perhaps your wife can support the household while you go back to school.

You have a lot of options, so before you try to make a decision today, research more about both nursing and massage therapy. Think about the short- and long-term benefits of both. You don't want to make a knee-jerk or emotional reaction. Don't let people talk you into anything either. Know they mean well, but it's you're life and you need to be fulfilled in whatever you decide.

[uRabbit]

Seems some people are getting confused. Carrington's LPN program is accredited. RN program is not yet. I could get my LPN and work as an LPN and wait for RN program to get accredited, or go to RN and hope it gets accredited in the two years I am there. It most likely would. Carrington hasn't been denied accreditation before. Also, employers around here employ Carrington students.

I have gone to Carrington before. My learning style fits great with their teaching style. I left high school with a 2.4 and got my GED, went to college and graduated with a 3.4. What's that say? I have sat-in on university courses and it just cannot be done for me. The nursing program at BSU has a horrible student:teacher ratio - around 60:1. Carrington? 25:1. What's that say? I believe Carrington offers a much better value of education - unfortunately, not a lot of people look at that. Also, the graduation rate of persons that go to Carrington's 2 year ASN program that graduate, is around 86% (iirc). BSU's is lower.

Anyways. I'm still pondering on this. I have some important things to take care of before I can even apply.

I have been looking at openings in Portland, and most require 1 year experience as RN, and prefer a BSN. So I am thinking we would stay here in Boise until I have about four years experience.

And yes, I understand the pressures and the need for expanded amounts of drive to work in the field, but I feel I would do well in it, and the rest of my family agrees. My mother wishes I could do more with massage, of course, but it is not exactly my dream job. I should have done more evaluating before going to school for it. However, my student loans are almost paid off ($3,000 in my name - father says he will pay his loans). I feel that as an RN, I could reach my potential.

I will look into it further, of course. As for making money as a Massage Therapist, it takes more than just 'opening up shop and hoping clients come in'. Massage is not viewed as a necessity. You have to be a marketing guru, unless you want to work in someone else's spa the rest of your career, making $20-40 per massage. And at only 3-4 massages per day, 3-4 days a week... It's just not enough. I wouldn't go to school for massage I did it over again. I love massage. I love performing and receiving. But it is hard on the body and you are not likely to make more than $30,000 annually.

[BuckyBadger]

It looks like you are pretty set on spending the $45k on the for-profit school. Good luck!

[uRabbit]

It looks like you are pretty set on spending the $45k on the for-profit school. Good luck!

Is it not the value of education that is worth more to you?

I don't know about anyone else, but I go to school to learn, not to waste my money. And I cannot go to school for 5+ years.

[BuckyBadger]

Is it not the value of education that is worth more to you?

I don't know about anyone else, but I go to school to learn, not to waste my money. And I cannot go to school for 5+ years.

Believe me, I understand the value of an education. I went to school for approximately 23 years all told, and I ended up with a PhD. But I wasn't supporting a family as you are and I chose a field in the sciences that would pay ME to work and I had a research assistant stipend the whole time.

I'm just saying that you came on asking about a specific degree at a specific institution for a lot of money. Other people have made suggestions about ways that you could achieve the same thing without paying so much money. These other options are more complicated, perhaps, and require more work on your end. And you have dismissed all of them.

So as I said, you are clearly set on this program at this school. You came here set on it and you are still set on it. So I was serious when I wished you good luck. It may be a tough road, but if it is something that you are really dedicated to I'm hopeful that it will all turn out well in the end.

[uRabbit]

Ah, I got you, Bucky.

I have not thanks you all for supplying your opinions and suggestions. I really do appreciate them! I posted this topic in search of other possible options. And that is just what I got, and could not be happier! Maybe, too, I posted this topic to see if I was firm in my desire to do this. To see if this would discourage me, or encourage me. And it has definitely encouraged me! I have asked people on a nursing forum, and they say that there should not be anything wrong with either option. That I can either go for the BSN, or go for ASN and be working three years before I could with a BSN. One person said that the three years experience will more than make up for the BSN, while another said it really depends on how closed-minded the employer is. Also, someone else related with me, saying, "Would you rather miss three more years with your daughter for a piece of paper that would not matter as much as your time with her, when you could be working sooner and making more money AND spending more time with her?" That person went on to say that, of course, I will not be home all hours of the day, I will be making up for what is 'lost' by not going for the BSN, by earning money sooner, getting invaluable experience, and spending time with the family.

I am excited about this, indeed! It will be TOUGH! Beyond comprehension. But I can do it.

[BuckyBadger]

That's a good way to think about it -- if your field allows it. A lot of people leave my field with a Masters and start earning money a lot sooner than I did. My salary may always be higher than theirs, but for 6 years those MS students were making about $75k more than I did while I was still in school. It'll take me a damn long time to make up that nearly half a million I lost out on by staying in school for an extra 6 years.

[riverwed070707]

Is it not the value of education that is worth more to you?

I don't know about anyone else, but I go to school to learn, not to waste my money. And I cannot go to school for 5+ years.

Community colleges in my area offer accredited nursing programs (and a state college has an extension to get a BSN here as well) for a fraction of the cost you're looking at. I would never spend the amount on my education that I'm potentially looking at making for an annual salary...I have a 4 year degree I paid less for. Not worth it IMO for 2 years of overpriced school and no time to watch my kid grow up just to make a little more money. Use what you have, and then if you still feel like changing directions, do it when you can afford it or are better positioned location wise to take advantage of schools in your area.

[uRabbit]

I have been looking at jobs online via craigslist, indeed, and hospitals in the Boise and Portland areas. Craigslist seems to be the hot spot for crappy jobs. Per diem, overqualified low-paying jobs, nursing homes, etc. Indeed appears to be the place for decent jobs - have found maybe one or two positions that do not require a degree from an accredited nursing programme, and prefer a BSN.

So today I have been looking into CWI for an associates, and BSU for RN-BS. CWI's course would be around $9,000, and BSU's about the same, offered completely online if desired. So, if I can tough-it-out for two or three years to get my ASN, I could hopefully become employed, and then work on my BSN. Both programmes are accredited by NLNAC.

Who was I kidding? In a tight market, you have to do everything set yourself apart. And that means going through accredited courses. I got pretty discouraged, so I looked at other possible careers. But they are not me. And while they may pay more and be growing faster than nursing, I believe that I could have a larger impact on peoples' lives as a murse (man-nurse haha).

I thank you all so much for the opinions, and most of all - your support! I think I have demonstrated how eager I am to further myself and to provide for my family. Which is why it is so stressful!

[Scanner]

I am going to speak as a chiropractor, a friend and ally to the massage therapy profession. I have had massage therapist's rent from me before and I genuine respect the profession and think it's come a long way.

That all being said (and disclaimed), I have met very few what you would call "Table-Carrying LMT's" in my travels. In fact, I hate to say it. . .a lot of them are flakey. I would send them business or set up patinets for them and they wouldn't show up. . .very frustrating group to deal with.

I know there are people here who are saying you can make a killing and the schools promise you $70/hour pay. . .well. . .massage is one of the first things to take a hit during a recession, stagflation, whatever you want to call it and add to that, what the schools don't tell you is the person gets charged $70/hour. . .usually at least, AT LEAST 50% is coming off the top.

Now. . .add to that. . .it's very hard to work a full 8 hour day as a massage therapist and have 8 hours all lined up with bookings. Your thumbs will kill you and people do demand a therapeutic type massage vs. hot stone, esp. if they have a musculoskeletal complaint.

So .. .well, you'll just have LMT's work for you and you'll just sit back and smoke cubans in the back office - great plan. . .okay. . .well, you had better learn about marketing and sales on how you are going to fill up the books of the flunkies working for you.

You should take courses on that, if you decide against nursing.

Finally, I'd hate to say this - you are a male in a female dominated profession. That in of itself carries a risk with sexual harrassment. Women will be disrobing and you have got to have a plan to overcome this. I would never try to reverse discriminate if I was hiring but it would be a big matza ball I'd have to think about.

I'm am going to go against the grain here and say being a massage therapist makes a great part-time job, but lousy full time career and would encourage you to pursue nursing, if, IF it interests you enough and it's not ALL about the money.

I am of the firm beleif that a career in healthcare was never meant to be a path to riches and we have experienced a kind of abberation in the last 50 years, since the advent of health insurance.

As a male nurse, yes, you ARE a commodity, more than the female nurse, believe it or not and there are other career opportunities besides clinical practice.

Yes, other posters are correct. . .for years we heard about a nursing shortage. . .until healthcare reform. . .then all of the sudden, there are hiring freezes.

What hospitals aren't telling you is nurses are spread thinner thanks to management and their "New Age" management philosophy of "Everyone has got to sacrifice, including the patients" and are probably breaking a lot of accrediation rules. Rule of thumb - if a loved one goes into a hospital - watch his/her back.

(I work at a CAT scan tech also)

Good luck no matter what you decide.