Go back to school?

[uRabbit]

Hi all. Some of you may know me, some may not.

I went to school before. I went for Massage Therapy and graduated with a 3.4 GPA in 2007. Since then, I have not used my education to make money... Not once. It has recently (for the past half a year) been my goal to get into massage and start earning money. However, to do that, I need to start working at a spa, making only about $20 per massage. Before that, however, I must get my city licensure, which in order to get that, I must first take the national certification and get my insurance. I am not really put off by all that. Also, I could work in neighbouring cities (about 10 miles away) that do not require any sort of licensure or anything.

It is my goal to some day have my own practice, running a one-man outfit or possibly working alongside other Massage Therapists, or have people under me.

However... I have been wondering lately. This whole 'plan' has felt more like a 'fantasy', and seems unrealistic. I am now thinking about nursing.

I have always considered nursing as a possible career. I have been employed in the caregiving field for over four years now, and have faced my biggest discomfort - naked body parts. Haha. Gore does not bother me all that much, believe it or not.

Anyways, here are the numbers...

To get my LPN (License for Practical Nursing), it would be 9 months, 9a to 5p. 9a to 5p is my current work schedule. However, there is a higher-paying night schedule, 5p to 9a, that allows time for sleep. That would most definitely cut it close and cuts WAY down on time with the family. School is four days a week. So I am not sure how I would get through it with my sanity in-tact... However, the night shift is 4 on 3 off, 3 on 4 off. So, most likely, school would only happen on a couple of the days that I work. LPN is around $25,000.

Then I would get a part-time job as an LPN (which the field is good right now for all nursing staff in our area - the whole northwest, actually), and would enroll to get my RN. RN is also 9 months, with half of that being clinic hours. Those clinic hours would almost definitely cut into work, so we would have to see how that went... But most employers of LPN's work with them when they are in school in related fields, especially for RN. RN costs around $19,500.

So the total would be around $45,000 for less than two years, but I would also have a job that pays more than 2.5x what I make now in under a year, and a year later would be eligible for a job that pays more than 3.5x what I make now. But also with 3x more debt than I have now. But I would still be paying down my current debt - moreso because I would be working the night shift.

I am not sure what I am asking here... Guidance? Opinions? Criticism? What do y'all think? Nursing has been in the back of my mind for two and a half years now...

[ActYourWage]

My wife's 3 sisters, my aunt, and have 2 cousins that are all nurses (5 RNs and PTA). My sister went to college to be a RN, but changed out of that field her Junior year. I say that to say being a nurse is a noble tough job and going into that field because it pays good is not the reason to do so (not that you are, I am just saying).

You might want to consider getting exposure to the field to see if you would even like it. I say this to make sure you are weighing the options of how tough going $45k into debt and being on a tight schedule would be. You also would need to consider how long it would take to get out of debt after nursing school.

In any event, I have actually thought about being a nurse too (just mostly a passing thought though), but I would get my education paid for through my employeer (university worker). However, I am not so sure I would even like doing that day in and day out. That type of job can be really rewarding though, so you need to just think through the options.

[adstalker]

Hi all. Some of you may know me, some may not.

I went to school before. I went for Massage Therapy and graduated with a 3.4 GPA in 2007. Since then, I have not used my education to make money... Not once. It has recently (for the past half a year) been my goal to get into massage and start earning money. However, to do that, I need to start working at a spa, making only about $20 per massage. Before that, however, I must get my city licensure, which in order to get that, I must first take the national certification and get my insurance. I am not really put off by all that. Also, I could work in neighbouring cities (about 10 miles away) that do not require any sort of licensure or anything.

It is my goal to some day have my own practice, running a one-man outfit or possibly working alongside other Massage Therapists, or have people under me.

However... I have been wondering lately. This whole 'plan' has felt more like a 'fantasy', and seems unrealistic. I am now thinking about nursing.

I have always considered nursing as a possible career. I have been employed in the caregiving field for over four years now, and have faced my biggest discomfort - naked body parts. Haha. Gore does not bother me all that much, believe it or not.

Anyways, here are the numbers...

To get my LPN (License for Practical Nursing), it would be 9 months, 9a to 5p. 9a to 5p is my current work schedule. However, there is a higher-paying night schedule, 5p to 9a, that allows time for sleep. That would most definitely cut it close and cuts WAY down on time with the family. School is four days a week. So I am not sure how I would get through it with my sanity in-tact... However, the night shift is 4 on 3 off, 3 on 4 off. So, most likely, school would only happen on a couple of the days that I work. LPN is around $25,000.

Then I would get a part-time job as an LPN (which the field is good right now for all nursing staff in our area - the whole northwest, actually), and would enroll to get my RN. RN is also 9 months, with half of that being clinic hours. Those clinic hours would almost definitely cut into work, so we would have to see how that went... But most employers of LPN's work with them when they are in school in related fields, especially for RN. RN costs around $19,500.

So the total would be around $45,000 for less than two years, but I would also have a job that pays more than 2.5x what I make now in under a year, and a year later would be eligible for a job that pays more than 3.5x what I make now. But also with 3x more debt than I have now. But I would still be paying down my current debt - moreso because I would be working the night shift.

I am not sure what I am asking here... Guidance? Opinions? Criticism? What do y'all think? Nursing has been in the back of my mind for two and a half years now...

You should definitely use your degree to make money. I own 3 chinese foot massage businesses here in Los angeles and I can tell you that the money is great. If you have 70k-80k capital you can open a store and hire other massage therapist to work for you. The licensing is not that hard. You just need some capital to start and some savings to help you through the first 4-5 month of operation.

[uRabbit]

snippet

Thanks for your reply, ActYourWage. Love the user name btw! My mother in-law, her mother and brother, and husband are all in the field. And I have been around it a lot (visiting her at work and in my line of work), and I feel as though I work enjoy it. I enjoy high-paced work, not having to worry about -running- a business, and working with different people.

I ran a student loan calculator. If I was to begin paying down the loan after RN school, my minimum payment would be around $560/mo. If I made $40,000 my first year as an RN - provided I get a job as an RN around the same time as I start paying it down - I would be able to contribute about $1,000/mo towards the student loan(s), if our rent is $1,000/mo. However, I will most likely be able to contribute more, as almost all of my current debts will be paid off in two years.

Edit: My consumer debts will be paid off around a year from now. Then I will have left still my current student loans and a 0% loan from my parents.

[snafu]

With an aging population, the research suggests there will continue to be opportunities for medical support. The career path you've outlined is long, difficult, expensive, and can be intensely negative for your family. It takes an incredible amount of self determination and stick-to-it-ness to work, go to class, do homework and study while worrying about money and family.

How would it all compare with your current work? Is your family willing to support your efforts for several years? Are there any grants, scholarships, bursaries available? How much interest would your loans cost?

[Joan.of.the.Arch]

What kind of school(s) are you looking at that are going to cost you $45,000?

Do you have the non-nursing prerequisites already? Math, biology, anatomy & physiology, chemistry, sociology, English, history? If not, take those classes at a community college to keep the price down. Then go to a nursing school that will allow you to pay per credit hour, rather than one that charges per semester or for the whole program. That probably means going to a community college for nursing as well. Avoid proprietary nursing schools (like the ones you see advertised on TV.)

Is there some monetary advantage in getting your LPN first? Is there an employer that will pay tuition toward your RN if you are already employed as an LPN? Otherwise, I don't really see the point in doing it like that. Enroll in a community college RN program after you've completed the prerequisites and be finished in 2 years, with less than $45,000 in debt.

Ask those family members what they think of your idea. They know you and would have some idea of your suitability. Nursing does have a high drop out rate---it is not what people seem to imagine it. They would also have knowledge of the actual market for nursing right now. Some places are just not hiring any full time nurses, so it could be unrealistic to think you could make that $40K in your first year.

Sorry, but right now nursing is not in all places that bright, shining Star of Employment that it has a reputation of being.

[uRabbit]

The school is Carrington College. I went there for my Massage Therapy Certificate when it was Apollo College. Now they are fully accredited. I love their teaching style, versus traditional classrooms where you just sit, take notes, take exams. Also, it would only take 9 months for each program. Therefore, I would not be in school for years and years.

My family supports me. My mother in-law believes it is a good idea. She feels I would do well in nursing, especially since I do so well in my current line of work.

[Joan.of.the.Arch]

I haven't heard of Carrington College since this for-profit college does not advertise in my part of the country. However, I see from an internet search that it is a subsidiary of Devry, which is one of the biggies in for-profit higher ed.

I think taking on $45,000 of debt for a second associate's degree is not the best idea. That is more than the average person borrows for a 4-year degree. And would that be added to student loans you are already paying off?

If you can go the community college route, I think you should--unless the people you know currently in nursing assure you that the comm college program has a bad reputation. The program of study cannot be very different at Carrington compared to community colleges, or else it would not pass the accreditation boards for nursing schools. As a matter of fact, though, in Carrington's own catalog, they say that one of their campuses has provisional accreditation for nursing. That does not sound very solid to me. Could they lose accreditation in the middle of your study? Look into that if that applies to your campus.

A remote consideration is that there has been an increasing concern in Congress that for-profit schools perhaps have been essentially ripping off taxpayer by accepting federal student loans and grants, as well as federally backed low interest student loans. There is the possibility that Congress might in the coming years disqualify for-profit colleges, or at least make eligibility stricter. (P.S. DeVry (papa to Carrington) is one of the businesses that has raised eyebrows and caused questions to be raised about for-profits being given federal student aid money.

[uRabbit]

There are no other colleges in my area that are accredited by the NLNAC, except for Boise State University. And that would take me about six years to get through, and only a 20% chance of getting into the RN program. The schedule at the traditional university is sporatic, so it would not do well with my work schedule.

Also, BSU's Bachelor program (that would award me a BSN to work as an RN) totals up to be over $44,000, for four years. Whereas Carrington is a total of $45,000 for under two years.

[dawnwes]

Well, here is my take and it doesn't all have to do with not going further into debt.

If you are 100% committed to finish the degree and work in the field long term, I would go for it. If you have any doubt at all, think this is something you might "try" and see if it works, then I would hold off.

Another question: This school you are considering.....is it highly reputable? Are you sure you can get a good job coming out of it? If it isn't "traditional" in nature, can you still get a traditional nursing job when you get out?

Dawn

[Joan.of.the.Arch]

uRabbit, I don't mean to sound like I'm trying to totally shoot down your plans. Just think them through and look at all the financial consequences. I read your blog entry about car hopping. You wouldn't want to make the same mistake "degree hopping" and piling up debt as you go.

Okay, you are close to Boise? How far are you from this nursing program at a community college in Nampa/Boise?

Professional Nursing Program - Professional Technical Program | College of Western Idaho

I estimate that an in-district person who was to start that RN program totally from scratch with no transferable credits would pay only $7616 for the whole program if finished in 4 semesters. Usually that isn't really doable in 4 semesters as you must get the prerequisites first, rather than consecutively with the nursing classes. But this is just to get you in the ballpark of expenses. Perhaps add on another $4896 to go three additional semesters for prerequisites and general ed. So Maybe $12,500 total.

Looks like a person who has all the prerequisites needs only 34 more credit hours in four semesters of study, so the tuition would be $6528.

CWI Tuition and Fee Information | College of Western Idaho

Now, I do not have total confidence in my interpretation of the tuition, but I am certain it is a much better bargain than $45,000.

[uRabbit]

CWI has no NLNAC accreditation at all. They even applied for it and were denied.

As for "degree hopping," that is a great point! Since nursing has always been on my mind, though, I feel that it is a better decision than Massage Therapy was. When I signed up for the MT program, I just toured the campus and chose a program I was excited about. I think I was just so excited for completing my GED before my High School grad date with such high scores that I said to myself, "Hey! Let's go to college!" You know?

But nursing makes sense. My ability to make people feel at ease made me look into social work, but nursing is more along the lines of how I perform. I have also considered the technical side of nursing - as in, the basic job description. I believe I would be great at it, and want to make it my career. I can see myself retiring as a nurse.

[MonkeyMama]

I 100% agree with Joan. Though nursing may be a good degree for you to get, don't settle on the most expensive/easy option without further research. I would avoid those for-profit colleges, personally.

For reference, no one in our family has spent much on our college educations. My spouse would like to go back to school. We didn't go into debt the first time, and don't plan to the second time. He was just looking at a local for-profit school and the price tag was something like $40,000. Knowing he can get the same degree for just a few thousand dollars at a public college, means we'd be insane to fork out that money. (For one - he has already taken most the classes for this particular degree - so may only need a handful of classes). Anyway, we are considering our options, but will probably be the public school/save up the money first route. Going $40,000 in the hole would be *easy,* but is not the best route when you consider other options. & I think that would go for most people and most scenarios. (& of course - there is nothing EASY about paying that money back some day, of course).

[Joan.of.the.Arch]

CWI and Carrington in Boise both have "Candidate" status with NLNAC, which is not the only legitimate accrediting agency for RN programs.

NLNAC Candidates

It looks like they have that status because they are both new programs.

Ask your state nursing board which other accrediting agencies certify schools whose graduates may take the licensing exam.

But do not simply accept that the school's literature naming an accrediting agency means it will allow you to take the exam. There have been proprietary schools that have created their own supposed accrediting agencies! Not legit!

[Frugal]

I would personally not take out ANY debt for ANY education, if I knew back then what I know now. I would also say that nursing is a good profession, but extremely demanding. It can mean night shifts (as my in-law has), which can run 12 hrs. It can also wash a lot of people out of the profession, because of the demands and challenging hours and pressure it can put on a family.

HOWEVER...from what I hear, around here the pay starts in the mid-high 40k area- and increases dramatically. It can mean some really good health insurance benefits, as well. Plus, there is the prestige of the job, and a ton of openings despite the recession. I see them advertised all the time.

If you got the degree in massage, I personally would use what I earned first, before considering other education. I too was tempted to return to school despite having basically two BA degrees, but while it may SEEM like it is a guarantee of a job, it is not. Plus, usually there is the debt you rack up returning to college or any kind of trade school.