My Christmas Experiment

[disneysteve]

What's funny is that he could care less. He doesn't appear worried about anything

Of course not. He's got nothing to lose. What is there to worry about?

Your sister, however, is worried about her home, her savings, her future, her children and how much a divorce would cost her.

[wincrasher]

Exactly. Some would call it denial.

It really is a crap shoot either way. Give her money and things calm down. Give her money and she decides what the hell does she need a husband for? Don't give her money and she decides what does she need a husband for that is only another mouth to feed? Don't give her money and she nags him until he just up and leaves.

Damned if you do, damned if you don't.

[Beppington]

Exactly. Some would call it denial.

It really is a crap shoot either way. Give her money and things calm down. Give her money and she decides what the hell does she need a husband for? Don't give her money and she decides what does she need a husband for that is only another mouth to feed? Don't give her money and she nags him until he just up and leaves.

Damned if you do, damned if you don't.

I'm sympathetic to your wanting to help them, but I just don't think you can solve this situation with money.

[disneysteve]

It really is a crap shoot either way. Give her money and things calm down. Give her money and she decides what the hell does she need a husband for? Don't give her money and she decides what does she need a husband for that is only another mouth to feed? Don't give her money and she nags him until he just up and leaves.

Damned if you do, damned if you don't.

Yep. I just don't see how you giving them money is going to alter the outcome here. I think you need to be emotionally supportive of your sister but let things play out as they will.

[Beppington]

What's funny is that he could care less. He doesn't appear worried about anything - things just eventually work out. She's the one who frets and worries and starts arguements about money. It's very peculiar.

This confirms my stance even more for me.

I have no problem helping people that are trying, & care about helping themselves; it's the ones that don't that I just can't find myself wanting to help. Maybe that's mean, but it's the way I feel.

[wincrasher]

Well that is one way to look at it.

It never occured to me that I would be helping my BIL.

[Hot dog]

I wish I had a sister like you. That is all I have to say

[JustDave]

Well that is one way to look at it.

It never occured to me that I would be helping my BIL.

Here's my interpretation of the situation ...

First off, you're a great sibling.

If you're worried that by giving your sister money you might be helping your brother-in-law in the process, then it seems to me that money isn't their only problem as you say.

If it were just a simple issue of running his business poorly or mismanaging his money, then I wouldn't think you'd go to such lengths to make sure he didn't see a dime of it. But if you truly don't want to help him, then it seems like there's more to it than just money. The money problems are the symptom in this case, not the illness.

[disneysteve]

If it were just a simple issue of running his business poorly or mismanaging his money, then I wouldn't think you'd go to such lengths to make sure he didn't see a dime of it. But if you truly don't want to help him, then it seems like there's more to it than just money. The money problems are the symptom in this case, not the illness.

Well said. I agree.

[wincrasher]

It's not that I don't want to help my BIL, it's just that I was looking at it from the perspective that I was helping my sister and my nephews.

I don't want him to get the money, because that is just thowing it down a rat-hole. If he thinks they are living on the edge, he may try harder. Also, I'm not interested in humiliating him. I like the guy, just disappointed in him as a provider.

If I give it to her, I know that all the bills will get paid. As a side benefit, she might stop fighting with her husband.

[disneysteve]

If I give it to her, I know that all the bills will get paid. As a side benefit, she might stop fighting with her husband.

They won't stop fighting because they aren't fighting about money. They are fighting about attitudes and behavior about money. More money won't fix that. He'll still be unemployed or underemployed and not trying too hard to change that. He'll still not be concerned with all his debt. He'll still not feel bad about the fact that she took over payments on 45K of his debt.

My wife and I are doing just fine financially. We manage our money well and have a very nice portfolio. Still, that doesn't mean we never disagree about money. If you handed us 500K tomorrow, we would still have the same disagreements because they aren't actually about money. They are about how to handle money. I would still think that my daughter buying lunch at school is a waste of money. My wife would still be hesitant to play anything but a penny slot machine at the casino.

Giving them money will not stop their disagreements.

[wincrasher]

There are lots of underlying issues.

I think that if he really was hard working, but unsuccessful, it would be another story. Sis is a pretty forgiving person. She just seems to be at her wit's end now. He won't discuss his financial affairs with her. She can only get him to do things when it becomes an ultamatum. She gets dribs and drabs of info to piece the story together.

I think she always thought she could change him. I'm a big believer that you can't change people. If, by some miracle, someone wants to change their behavior, it's extremely difficult, especially as they get older.

I wish that I had a dollar for every sob story I've heard from woman about how their man won't change. Constantly in the office I hear these stories. How they are so surprised. Maybe it will get better when the baby comes. Sickening!

[HistoryChick]

There are lots of underlying issues.
He won't discuss his financial affairs with her. She can only get him to do things when it becomes an ultamatum.

Then nothing will ever change, no matter how rich or poor they are.

For the record, you sound like an absolutely awesome and amazingly loving sister - she's lucky to have you in her corner.

[Beppington]

There are lots of underlying issues.

I think that if he really was hard working, but unsuccessful, it would be another story. Sis is a pretty forgiving person. She just seems to be at her wit's end now. He won't discuss his financial affairs with her. She can only get him to do things when it becomes an ultamatum. She gets dribs and drabs of info to piece the story together.

I think she always thought she could change him. I'm a big believer that you can't change people. If, by some miracle, someone wants to change their behavior, it's extremely difficult, especially as they get older.

I wish that I had a dollar for every sob story I've heard from woman about how their man won't change. Constantly in the office I hear these stories. How they are so surprised. Maybe it will get better when the baby comes. Sickening!

Sounds like you already knew most of what was posted in response to your original post.

I re-read your original post, including: "So I'm now considering 2 options. Giving them $1500 a month until her husband gets his act together, or paying off their credit card debt. I'm leaning towards the monthly allotment. I don't want her husband to know about this either - it's between her and me."

He's either going to directly find out about the monthly cash, & lose even more (all?) incentive to work, or maybe feel like your cash is God's way of providing ... or he's just going to slowly but surely realize, "Hmm, seems odd, no matter what I do, miraculously all our bills get paid. Wow, this is easy."

[wincrasher]

I would be an amazing sister. But alas, I'm a stoopid man.