Ignite and Stream Energy - Is it a Scam?

[smwarpig63]

you aren't looking at the big picture

Here is the big picture: They are currently in 3 states about to enter 2 more and as soon as the 15 or so states that are in deregulation process deregulate, they will be there. This is why it is worth the very, very, very low risk to join. Of course some people are hesitant. It looks like a pyramid scam. But it just isn't.

There will obviously be no way to sway your opinion. Your friend could all of a sudden take off in this business and you would still naysay. But I don't knock you for that. I was, and still am to an extent, very much against MLM. I was super skeptical until I research it.

All I can tell you is this: There are 2 types of people in this world. Those who get Ignite and those who will be wishing they got it when it was just starting.

[Tobby782]

To Good To Be True, Probably Is!

I have never heard of this particular scheme, but it sounds less than reputable to me.

[NancyZ]

Yes SMWARPIG63 keep believing in this "business". My research showed me that the vast majority of people will not make a living on this. But, hey, how lucky are you that you have to pay to keep a job? That $25 a month for the website is a goldmine to Ignite. There is also a third type person in the world. The one who can get a real job and be productive on a daily basis and, in turn, make good money and have great benefits.

[Javaman]

Just what any efficient business needs... Thousands of middlemen to take a cut of the profits. Or maybe they can compete with the other power companies because they DON'T actually pay out more than they take in on average from these middlemen thanks to the startup and ongoing fees.

[Shewillbemine]

Sigh. These ideas/companies/pyramids/schemes have been around for CENTURIES. No matter how you package it, the same basic principle is a pyramid scheme. You pay money to get in, the people above you make percentages on the number of people YOU bring in and if you don't produce, you're left holding the bag. Like everyone else who has tried this before you, you give yourself a higher chance of alienating your own friends, relatives and neighbors because you will continue to pester them to join. One presentation in college (where these people like to stalk) had a woman almost begging us to give her the money. She literally said "Well don't you have some kind of emergency fund that you can access to start your business?" I told her this was, respectfully, not an emergency.

So many people want to believe it's easy to make a lot of money, especially with little to no skills, training or time invested. Yes, some people make money participating in these schemes but that's few and far in between. They even have rules to "act as if" to give off the image of success. Higher ups are encouraged to lease, rent or buy super expensive cars that they can't necessarily afford all in the name of fooling, ahem, recruiting more suckers.

If an 18 year old kid can do it with little to no college education, how "reputable" do you think this actually is? It is a get-rich quick scheme, pure and simple. And as other posters have said, especially when THERE IS NO ACTUAL PRODUCT SOLD that's when you have even more problems.

I've seen it all: make-up, hair products, online shopping memberships, deregulated energy (I heard about this back in 1997 with a different name with a different company--but same idea: pay us the starter kit/membership fee and you can go recruit your own people).

Hint: if you can actually succeed in this type of environment, get yourself a real sales job and you'll make thousands to millions of dollars if you do have the skill. Otherwise, quit putting stickers and license plate frames on your car regarding a paper company that will not be around this time next year.

Btw, what kind of company actually tells its new recruits to keep their day jobs until they're more stable? Hint: a company that wants you to pay more fees throughout your "rookie year". I was approached by some loser at a Starbucks who tried to sell me on another one (OMG there's more than one of them but HIS company is different; it's the better one selling "decommissioned energy"). I laughed because I assured him I made more money than his day job and this part-time racket combined.

[NancyZ]

Shewillbemine you couldn't have spelled it out any better. Remember, there is no background check or resume and reference request for any of these people. All they want is that $300 up front and their $25 monthly fee for the website and anyone can become an Independent Associate for Ignite. It is very scary. Don't forget their motivational speakers range from Randy (the self-professed stupid Cowboy) to Jennifer, a woman who flirts shamelessly with the men in the audience. Oh, they are all millionaires by the way.

[DelValPC]

Hi,My name is Robert. I own a computer service company called DelVal PC. It is in Dexel Hill Pa. I have been involved with Ignite for about a month. I have made 1100 dollars in this time. There are going to be people that make money from this and there are people that arent going to make money in this. I really beleieve that the only way that you are not going to at least recoupe your investment is to not really give any effort. They teach you how to get customers and they teach you how to bring in associates. It is not very hard. I made it to Managing Director in 30 days. One of the people directly under me is going to do it faster than I did. We work as a team. We arent bringing in people and just forgetting about them. The simple fact is that if you help your people, you will get success out of this and so will they. I have realistic expectations . If I can get myself to where my residuals are about 200 dollars a month. That will be great. I am not one of the people that go crazy going to every presentaion. I go to one presentation. I go to it whether I have someone comming or not. If one of my people are bringing in someone. I am there to help answer questions. I support my team. I have helped my people get customers and I have helped them bring in associates. I want the people under me to do well and I dont care if they do better than me. This is not a scam, and I sleep well at night. Of course this is not for everyone. Whoever goes into this as a get rich quick thing, they are going to realize quickly that is isnt. You have to actually do the work.

[NancyZ]

Good for you Robert. You must be one of the lucky ones who have hundreds to people to contact. Glad you made $1,100 but don't forget to take into account your sign-up fee and the monthly web fee. Also, remember that they do not take out taxes and it will be your responsibility to pay them. $200 residual income is a very lofty goal when you get about 50 cents per customer. I hope your downliners have as many people as you do. Good luck but I'll stick with my well paying job with benefits.

[Shewillbemine]

Hi,My name is Robert. I own a computer service company called DelVal PC. It is in Dexel Hill Pa. I have been involved with Ignite for about a month. I have made 1100 dollars in this time. There are going to be people that make money from this and there are people that arent going to make money in this. I really beleieve that the only way that you are not going to at least recoupe your investment is to not really give any effort. They teach you how to get customers and they teach you how to bring in associates. It is not very hard. I made it to Managing Director in 30 days. One of the people directly under me is going to do it faster than I did. We work as a team. We arent bringing in people and just forgetting about them. The simple fact is that if you help your people, you will get success out of this and so will they. I have realistic expectations . If I can get myself to where my residuals are about 200 dollars a month. That will be great. I am not one of the people that go crazy going to every presentaion. I go to one presentation. I go to it whether I have someone comming or not. If one of my people are bringing in someone. I am there to help answer questions. I support my team. I have helped my people get customers and I have helped them bring in associates. I want the people under me to do well and I dont care if they do better than me. This is not a scam, and I sleep well at night. Of course this is not for everyone. Whoever goes into this as a get rich quick thing, they are going to realize quickly that is isnt. You have to actually do the work.

Hi Robert, so it's highly unlikely that the majority of your $1100 in one month came from customer sign-ups. In fact, most of these schemes reward you much more if you bring in new "associates". So answer this question: did your "commission" come mostly from customers or recruits?

What type of company gives you more money if you find more SALES people rather than selling the actual "product" it purports to sell? A pyramid scheme company. Can you imagine if you walked onto a car lot and the sales people said

"Hey, you know we have these great cars (actually they would be imaginary cars you can see on the internet because this particular one doesn't sell tangible goods) on the lot. BUT, if you pay ME money you can work on this lot too and you can make money by either selling cars OR especially getting more sales people like I'm asking you. Don't worry about how illogical that sounds. Technically, the gov't can't deem it illegal because we have these "products" to sell. Remember, bring ME your recruiting fee and soon you'll be rolling in the dough!"

[DelValPC]

I dont make a dime unless my people get paid and that is a fact. Your right I do have alot of contacts which are my computer service customers and there is about 750 of them. I have very good relationships with many of my customers and I dont like miximg businesses , so I actually only have 2 of those customers in my line. If you are talking about 50 cents per customer , you are only fractionally right. If you have ever seen the presentation and I mean the whole presentation, you will see that it gets alot better than that. This company is not useing TV ads, radio ads nor are they useing billboards or any type of paper media. So of course agents are important. When your team grows, your residuals grow. And there are 1 dollar and 2 dollar customers also. I am sure there are people in this type of business that only care about agents . They recruit and forget them , but you will get no where in this company if you do that because your team will just fade out. I help people save money on there electric bill and I show people how to help people do the same. It really is that simple. 200 dollars month would be a lofty goal if it just depended on what I do. If you think it is only 50 cent per customer, then you have obviously not seen the presentation or who ever explained it to you did not pay attention the the presentation. This of course is not for everyone. I have not been paid a dime because I recruited people. I have made my money from my people reaching there customer goals. You do not get paid for recruiting. The agents have to actually produce customers. All monies are rewarded for making your customer goals. No one gets paid for just recruiting, no matter where they are from top to bottom. There are always going to be people that succeed and people that fail in every type of business. If someone signs up and thinks this is some get rich quick scheme, then they will fail when they realize that there is actual work that has to be done. This company does not promise that you will make a dime. They show you what you need to do and it is up to you to do it. People get all riled up because there is a sign up fee. Of course there is one. What other business can you get into for free? If it was free, how much effort would you really put into it? If 300 dollars is a risk, then you shouldnt consider even doing it unless you have alot of confidence. I feel good about what i am doing,but I am not dillusional to the point where I am expecting this to replace my business. I am looking to feed my retirement fund. I am 45 and I am in the technology field. technology will eventually go too fast for me to keep up with . It might not happen for 10 - 15 years, but it will happen and I want to be prepared for that. All of my agents that are doing what they need to do are making money. All of my agents that are not able to do what they need to do are being helped by there sponsors so they can recover there money. I have signed quite a few customers for my people to help them reach there goals and they will see what I have done and make sure they do the same for their people.Evert customer that my people and I have signed are paying less for their energy than they would be for the monopoly power company that they switched from. Isnt saving money what this whole forum is about? I respect and appreciate everyones opinions on this subject and all I ask is that you know what your talking about when it comes to how this business works without just assuming.

[Shewillbemine]

The "paying money to fund your business" argument is only valid if you actually owned your own business. What tax write offs do you attain by working as an Ignite rep? Are you the CEO, CFO, President? Are you in charge of the pricing? Do you go to board meetings and receive/give input as to the direction of the company? Do you give insurance to your workers? Do you have a 401k plan for yourself through this company? How about to your workers?

That is a blanket statement that can be applied to any "business" since of course it's true. It's like saying "the world is round". Well, no one can or should argue with that.

However, you do NOT own your own business. You are a mid-level manager of a pyramid scheme that ultimately funds itself primarily by bringing in new associates who don't even NEED to sell. You said it yourself: you have no doubts some people get into it because they only care about recruiting agents. There is no business in the world that purports to sell products would you only be able to get away with "recruiting". Only Human Resources could have done that.

But I guess everyone needs to feel good about rackets they pull on other people don't they? The tough part is that you are one of the Kool-Aid drinkers who is being laughed at by the people at the top of the whole pyramid. Don't you wonder why the starters of these companies jump from scheme to scheme, changing the company name and "product" every time? But it isn't my job to convince those who choose to participate that they are merely snake-oil sales people. I'm sorry you don't have enough money at 45 to feed your retirement fund and have to resort to this.

These schemes were made for people who have no skill, little experience and low IQs. Certainly, there are plenty of those in America.

[endurance5000]

Why do you people find network marketing so offensive? Last time I checked, I have helped many people save money each month on their energy bill and brought in some money for myself along the way. GASP!!! Must be a pyramid scheme! Mind you, pyramid schemes are illegal in the U.S. and I sincerely doubt the Public Utility Commission of PA would authorize this licensed, certified, insured, and very successful energy supplier into the masses of options for consumers if it is a pyramid scheme. An easy way to identify a pyramid scheme is a lack of a legitimate product or service. It seems as though energy service is pretty much in demand these days.

Look at any standard business model. CEO -----> Managers -----> Ground Staff

Is this a pyramid scheme because you have one individual overseeing a group of people. Just like a standard business model, Ignite Associates can quickly outrank their sponsor if they work hard and put in the time.

Donald Trump said on the Letterman show, "If I lost everything and had to start again, I would find a great network marketing company and get to work!"

....or we can do it the REALLY effective way and spends millions of dollars on billboards and flyers in the mail. We all know how great they work!

How many different ways do people have to say it...this is not for everyone, but for crying out loud take two freaking minutes to clear up some of that ignorance in your head and realize that network marketing can be extremely effective!

...as far as keeping my day job....what kind of fool would I be to drop my day job for something I just beginning to build? What kind of company would they be if they told you to do such a thing and you'd be set? People coming into this expecting they can kick their feet up and have the money rolling in are just as ignorant and those saying this is not a legit business.

[Bpcontra]

If you believe that Mary Kay's business model is a pyramid scheme, then you will believe that any type of network marketing program is a scheme.

This is what most people perceive as a pyramid:

A - Ignite Person
B B - Associates they sign up
CCCCC CCCCC - Customers

Looks like a pyramid to me. Or does it?

A - CEO
B B - Vice Presidents
CCCCC CCCCC - Middle Management

Hmmm...same structure. Weird...that looks like a pyramid too.

The reality is this...A pyramid scheme is illegal based on federal law. The Pennsylvania Utility Commission would not license and insure a company to sell energy in its state if it was using an illegal business model. Plain and simple. Stream Energy has been taken to court 3 times over being called a pyramid scheme and has won every time...Here's why:

In a pyramid scheme there are no products to sell, you simply make money by signing up associates. You can't have customers because there isn't any product to sell or service. With Stream Energy, your product is electricity. If you get people to become Stream Energy customers, you get paid. If you don't...you won't make money. If I signed up 100 associates and none of us got any customers, I would not make $1. It's customers that are the key, not associates.

Having been in the Ignite program for about 35 days, I've made $1200. Guess what...the checks didn't bounce. *Gasp*

Ignite tells you right on their website that on average, 80% of Ignite reps only earn $125 back out of their intial $300. Amazingly this fits in with the whole 80/20 rule...Stream pays 80% of their money to their top 20% earners. Isn't that the same as any company??

[NancyZ]

They have to disclose that information on their website but, not only does it reflects 87% of the representatives do not make any money, only 0.11% are the millionaires. Did you see that? Less than 1%. Those are the people who started this thing. Just looking at Randy's (the Cowboy) motivational speeches on YouTube should be enough to make you want to run for the hills. He proudly stands there saying he is not smart, and you don't have to be smart to make all the money he is making. And then everyone needs energy, wink, wink. Please! These people are not saying you'll end up making $200 a month on residuals they are saying that you are gonna become a millionaire. They parade these "millionaires" around at the meetings. One Ignite rep. told my friend the other rep. had a 6,000 sq.ft. house in Houston (she was the one who flirts with the guys in the audience and should learn how to dress like a millionaire). Wow! Big deal. The video on the website shows people playing with children, on vacation, buying cars, all because of Ignite. Oh, each month they get their check out of the mailbox and relax while everyone else works.

They make it real easy for you to get $200 back from the $300 inital fee, just sign up two or four energy customers, and you can be one. But then, they start with the pressure to get downliners with special bonuses that have time restraints. Don't forget they are getting that $25 per month from everyone for that cheesy website that everyone has. I heard that about 4,000 Independent Associates signed up in PA. Do the numbers that's $100,000 a month, or $1,200,000 a year, just on web fees. HELLO!

Just watch Ignite's Compensation Plan video on YouTube. That is another laugher. When they get into the residual income they show you how the money adds up. The bottom line is that you need a village of people under you with the same zeal and massive contacts as you have to make any type of money in this.

Oh, and don't forget, until you are promoted, they take out a $3 check processing fee. 4,000 times 3 = $12,000 alone. Once promoted, they will deem to make direct deposits for you if you so choose.

I can't believe that there are so many people out there who are paying to be able to say they are a "businessperson". Then continue paying for websites and check fees. With all these people the pool of new recruits is getting less and less. And don't forget, if people switch to Stream Energy, they might switch to someone else later on and there goes that residual fee from them. Remember no pension plan, no medical, no 401-K, and you are responsible for paying taxes and this income.

[endurance5000]

So...what you are saying is you don't want to sign up as my associate

Have you ever been to one of these meetings that you speak of? You know...the one where they promise you that you will be rolling in dough in no time? No? Really? That's strange because I have and not once did they guarantee anything of the sorts. In fact, they emphasized that you had to put work into it to make some returns. Now there are probably hundreds of these meetings in a month so naturally you are going to get a lot of different presenters from your funny, serious, sleazy salesman, etc. If someone told me I was going to make millions off of hardly no work and I believed them, then I AM THE IDIOT.

The fact remains: Ignite sponsored by Stream Energy IS a business. A business model is set up to make the company money. At least this company is affording other people the opportunity to do the same. If people are not in the position to set themselves up for success and continue to pay their monthly website fee (which by the way can be canceled anytime and is OPTIONAL), then that is on them. People resort to a lot worse measures to try and make something for themselves.

I personally think you have to be a COMPLETE airhead not to be able to make your initial investment back. As the guy said above, if you bring on 100 associates and they don't bring in any customers you make 0, zilch, NOTHING! Yet another little fact that squashes the pyramid scheme theory.

You know...here is my business idea: allow only highly educated people with an extensive business resume a FREE entry into the rights of a business and have a non-charismatic promoter of the company. I will make millions!