Ignite and Stream Energy - Is it a Scam?

[kkr]

I have looked at many MLM's and from what I am reading here this one is not much different than the others.

What everyone is overlooking is the math and the facts. Let me put it this way:

I want to hire you for one year. I am going to ask you to choose from 2 compensation plans. The first one I am going to pay you $100,000 per month for one year. That's $1,200,000 per year. The second option is I am going to ask you to work for me for a year but I am only going to pay you for 30 days at the following rate. The first day $.01. Second day $.02, 3rd day $.04, 4th day $.08, 5th day it doubles again to $.16, 6th day $32 and at the last day of the week $.64. This will go on for the whole month including weekends. We can even make it a month with 31 days! So far using this second payment option you have made one dollar and twenty seven cents.

Which do you choose? The $100,000 per month for one year or the one month of getting paid one cent the first day, two cents the second day, four cents the third day etc?

I've done very well for myself and I know the correct answer and that's why I have a Ferrari in my garage! I do know how to make money.

I don't know how old the article in the Atlanta Journal is or what the current numbers are today but in the article they claimed to be very proud to have 175,000 reps signed up selling Stream energy. They are only doing business in a handfull of states. Each of those 175K reps needs to sign up 4 reps of their own. 4x 175K =700,000. Each of those 700K will need to sign up 4 reps, 700K x 4 = 2,800,000. Those 2.8million reps need to sign up 4 people. 2.8mill x 4 = 11.2 million.

I don't know how many people live in the handfull of states Ignite/Stream are in but you can see you will run out of people to sell to very fast before the whole business model crashes down on itself, thus the pyramid references others are making. Maybe if they come to your state and you are one of the first to get involved in your state you could make money for a short while but you can see growth can't be sustained.

This does not even take into account the large number of people that are not ever going to switch or the ones that are willing to switch but not become reps and pay $20 per month for a website.

If you looked at my payment plans and thought $1.2 million dollars had to be more than the penny a day doubling every day for 30 or even 31 days you should not EVER get involved with Multi Level Marketing becuase you do not have the ability to see the flaws. I am 52 years old, wealthy and have lost a lot of friends that got involved with multi level marketing and were brainwashed into trying to sell the product so hard to friends and family that relationships were damaged beyond repair. If you try this anyway my advice is not to try to sell or recruit friends or familly members until after you been able to recruit strangers. If you can't sell to strangers than you have a crappy product or you just can't sell.

This is my first and most likely last post here. I did a search becuase a friend just asked me to switch my electric. We have been close since 8th grade. I hope we will still be friends but I am not going to switch my electric and I'm not going to sign up as a rep. I write this with deep regret because I think I already know the outcome. Kevin

[njclimber]

Research

Thanks to all those who took the time to share their opinion. This is quality information.
Just what I was looking for in my research. Not sure which way I'm going to swing on this but I do believe in people creating their own fortune, by leveraging opportunity. Today's economy demands that one has multiple streams of positive income. There will always be bitter people who've lost it all on one bet. If you really think about it, those whom you choose to share this opportunity with should be competent to do research. By learning the history and present situation of the company once can speculate on the future. And then decide their level of interest.
Here in Northern NJ we have a co-op Sussex Rural. Before, I even think of switching my energy I'm going to go over there and ask questions. See and hear their side of the story on what happens when I make the switch. I take it they will frown upon it, but this experience will aid me in making any decisions on switching my energy. The reason I never liked mlm's is because the end product, if any, was nothing of interest. But that's not important in an mlm. However using mlm with the end product being energy sounds pretty good on the surface. That's why it's important to investigate what the switch will do. I'd hate to be selling a service which I am dissatisfied with by some reason beyond my foresight. So, I'm off to investigate the quality of the service this company provides.
Thanks again for the posts!

[darln719]

I actually see this as one of the benefits of deregulation...I have not joined yet and have done some research...I don't view this as a scam at all!! I'm confused as to how people view it that way. I feel it's people helping people save and make money. In my eyes, the company would rather pay real people to advertise than spend a ton to marketing firms. Also, of course they aren't going to allow for reps to advertise on their own link....legal liabilities allowing people to do so!

Like any job, there is actual "work" involved to get a good ROI so if you are not a sales person, it may seem uncomfortable. it's not really any different than any other company like tupperware or pampered chef! Except you don't have to carry merchandise around!!!!

This is correct! I joined and have made my money plus some back in only 2 mos and just 1 customer away from being promoted to Managing Director (in only 2 months!) . It's true that its not for everyone but for someone who is in sales or good with talking to people it works and it is a 1099 business which you can write off expenses just as with any other sales position at a w-2 company. At first I didn't get the 'no internet marketing' or sending out flyers but now I do. I am also a realtor and for those thinking MLM -Ignite...is a scam just because it resembles a pyramid here is a question...Do you think Keller Williams Realty is a scam company? I guess depending on your region you may not have heard of them but they are a HUGE well known realty company in the northeast. Reason I ask is because they operate in the same MLM way! Agents are sponsored, there sponsors get a % of their sales and the agent gets a % of the agents they bring into the company and their sales and so on. I don't understand how people think its illegal and a scam just because Ignite 'resembles' a pyramid. Arbonne, Avon also work the same way and Arbonne sells very expensive beauty supplies, we are not 'selling' a product but 'saving' customers money on their energy supply, something they already have and always will need to have. They now have the choice to choose the supplier and rate rather than paying whatever rate the default supplier decides to charge. The difference between Pyramids and MLM is pyramids don't really have a real customer base that is getting any VALUE! MLM, there are REAL customers and they are getting VALUE. Sure we make some money from bringing on other associates (as do keller Williams associates, Arbonne, Avon, etc) BUT we ALSO get paid by our customer base from the company. We do work to get our customers.
Even if you save $5 a mos on your bill, thats $60 savings a year that I would rather have in my pocket than paying it to someone else. Also a part of the 329$ fee is that also gives you a license# and 24/7 customer support system for us and the customers. What other business can you start with under $350 start up that provides that and make the money back within a month? I did it within my first month plus some.
Also, someone mentioned a 2 month promotional rate. Ignite/Stream doesnt have a promotional rate which raises afterwards. Our rate we offer is it. Someone can sign up for the lowest fixed rate for 12 mos...and yes there is a cancellation fee of $150 which most companies charge but I have not seen a customer yet who wanted to cancel as they are saving money! Even Best Buy charges a restocking fee for returns! But if someone doesn't want that there is a month to month option, the rate is a little higher but it's still lower than the default energy supplier for your region.
All in all, this is legitimate and not a scam

[darln719]

The network marketing industry is a 150 billion dollar market. Proven Fact. The term "Pyramid Schemes" is a cop out since this person obviously doesn't know the difference between what is and what isn't a "pyramid scheme". Simply put it is products and value. Pyramid schemes either have no product or service (and no customers), OR there is no value in the products being sold (i.e. they are selling something that is extremely overpriced that wont move because no one will buy it at the rates they are asking). Ignite is paying it's people to be the marketing arm of the company instead of paying an advertising firm to send out fliers and buy billboards etc. The person who wrote the article probably either didn't try it, or did try it and wasn't successful OR they read the information and built an opinion based on hearsay or conjecture. Don't be negative it just makes you look stupid. Know your facts. There are legitimate network marketing companies out there. Amway fought the US government in the 70's and won, showing both a customer base and value in it's products. It's possible, it works, and I have the checks to prove it and I made myself a big wig by duplicating the system. If you are not successful at it, it's because either the support wasn't there or you didn't look at it as a business. Network marketing in general with companies like stream energy are work that pays back. My buy in was minimal compared to opening a sandwich shop or retail market. And I made my money back. The reason no network marketing companies are "free" is based on one simple fact. If you are ready to run your business then you need to put some skin in the game. Everyone uses electricity, EVERYONE. You get a small dividend on all your customers, but you bet paid on all the customers in the down line. Remember what I said. CUSTOMERS CREATE POSITIVE CASH FLOW LIKE EVERY BUSINESS OUT THERE. And the rates are competitive creating VALUE. It's a legitimate company, but if you don't understand that... don't get involved. I will still need someone to wash my car.

Thank you.

Well said! I agree! Thank you

[Txredesign]

Personal experience tells me it is a Scam.

Sorry, I tried to swallow the 'kool-aid' but I couldn't. Long story short a 'friend' signed me up at a very weak moment. Bottom line the ONLY people who make BIG money are the ones at the top, the 1%, 80% fall by the 'way-side' in the first year. Ignite has been around since 2005 here in TX and it was all started by top execs. from EXCEL, a communications company, so it's like AMWAY, you can buy your way in, or as in Ignite/Stream personally sponsor (which means you pay out of your pocket, to get people under you). You move up the chain but it's a vicious cycle you have to keep recruiting and you NEVER get to spend more time with your family or have that vacation home in the Bahamas or whatever. But by damned you better be at every tent revival meeting with sucker(oops, prospects) or you just not working the business hard enough. It's not about selling electricity nor natural gas in other states IT'S about the marketing, recruit, recruit, recruit. All MLMs are like that some are just better than others at sucking you in. I believe in business just not deceptive business practices, it's called fraud.

[Nugie]

Wow

first of all you are an idiot! Have you ever heard of Bernie Maddoff? He had pictures in his office with presidents, senators, and Gov's. The reason I dont care about this is that it takes idiots like you and thousands others and does not effect me at all. By scamming you the company is simply pissing on idiots and the per scam is less than $500 bucks and thus not a large enough to even get on the radar of prosecutors.
You want to know why you cant advertise on websites or facebook or youtube? Its not because of deregulation it is because of FEDERAL consequesnces from this illegal scam. It now bumps it up to Federal offenses by advertising this bull**** accross state lines and reaching a larger group of victims. Get a friggen clue. Scam City!!!!!!!!

JPO - you are an angry little man - people are looking for facts, and you are just berating them - and to quote you "the reason I don't care about this is...." it is obvious that you do care or you wouldn't be so angry or even write anything. I just had to comment on you - get some anger management will ya? - and spell check should be your password for the day
BTW - I have no affiliation with Stream or Ignite, just curious

[Shortie81]

Energy Supplying Companies

As a Network Marketer (MLM) with a direct sales/MLM telecommunications, technology & energy company for the last 6 months, which allows thier representatives to market different energy suppliers in the different deregulated states and a customer of one of the energy suppliers (Direct Energy in IL).

I think that A. the opportunity for consumers to save on the Energy Bills is outstanding..I myself have seen 12% decrease in my bill and we are not huge consumers of electricity. My parents that live in New Jersey (another deregulated state) who are customers of mine have seen a combined decrease of 18% in there electricity/gas bill.

B. As a consumer...that is outstanding and as marketer of the service, it is a great opportunity to build wealth because MOST people don't really understand Deregulation because it hasn't truly been explained properly thus most people refused to switch the supplier of energy (NOT THE ULITLITY COMPANY) because of the lack of understanding. So if you can get an understanding yourself and then market it to residential customers and commercial businesses then you can make a fortune of the product/service alone. Example: our company the commission value on a commerical energy account is 2% of every $1000 on the bill which $20. If you land one customer that has a $10,000 energy bill..that produces a MONTHLY $200 commission of which 1/2 goes directly to the representative (NO MATTER IF YOU JUST GOT STARTED) and if you land 10 accounts like that...it is a total of $1000 MONTHLY RESIDUAL INCOME and all you had to do was sign them up one time. So if you stoped at that moment you would continuously recieve $1000 every month as long as they contiue to pay the bills

I feel truly blessed to have my hands on such a opportunity because we market Energy for ALL Deregulated States but we also cover other bills that are paid as well. It is such a beautiful thing

[Shortie81]

MLM is not all bad

Sorry, I tried to swallow the 'kool-aid' but I couldn't. Long story short a 'friend' signed me up at a very weak moment. Bottom line the ONLY people who make BIG money are the ones at the top, the 1%, 80% fall by the 'way-side' in the first year. Ignite has been around since 2005 here in TX and it was all started by top execs. from EXCEL, a communications company, so it's like AMWAY, you can buy your way in, or as in Ignite/Stream personally sponsor (which means you pay out of your pocket, to get people under you). You move up the chain but it's a vicious cycle you have to keep recruiting and you NEVER get to spend more time with your family or have that vacation home in the Bahamas or whatever. But by damned you better be at every tent revival meeting with sucker(oops, prospects) or you just not working the business hard enough. It's not about selling electricity nor natural gas in other states IT'S about the marketing, recruit, recruit, recruit. All MLMs are like that some are just better than others at sucking you in. I believe in business just not deceptive business practices, it's called fraud.

I can understand your frustration with MLM and there are some out there that are scams but I also believe that some people misunderstand the nature of MLM. I have been apart of my MLM business for 6 months now and I have gotten everything out of that I put into it. But I wanted to say is that a true successful MLM is one that focuses on Customer Acquisition just and Recruiting potiential business partners. You said that the top 1% make all the money while 80% fall by the waist side...in some cases that is a true statement and it is unfortunate that it happens that way but does it make all MLMs bad. I don't think so. I will say this though..think about the company you work for. Who makes all the serious money?? The Top 1-2% and who gets minimum wages? The people that are at the bottom? Sadly...it is just the nature of business itself whether it be a traditional business or MLM. Unless you are self employed and if that is the case...I don't know about what company you were part of but the best thing to do is to find a MLM that suits your personality and it something you can be passionate about.

[Shortie81]

Nice

You can find something wrong with anything. Just want to say I live in Pa and am a Ignite associate, it's working fine, my power is still on and we are making a good deal of money doing it.
It's not a scam, just a way to help people save on there energy bills and make a nice retirement for yourself.

Joe

Exactly...I don't have Ignite..here in Illinois we have Direct Energy and I have a wonderful fixed rate of .0567 and I love it. I haven't had any complaints from any of my customers as well..they love the savings even if it is only $10. I am in talks with a Dry Cleaners close to my house who is excited about the opportunity to save money. It is great

[Txredesign]

I can understand your frustration with MLM and there are some out there that are scams but I also believe that some people misunderstand the nature of MLM. I have been apart of my MLM business for 6 months now and I have gotten everything out of that I put into it. But I wanted to say is that a true successful MLM is one that focuses on Customer Acquisition just and Recruiting potiential business partners. You said that the top 1% make all the money while 80% fall by the waist side...in some cases that is a true statement and it is unfortunate that it happens that way but does it make all MLMs bad. I don't think so. I will say this though..think about the company you work for. Who makes all the serious money?? The Top 1-2% and who gets minimum wages? The people that are at the bottom? Sadly...it is just the nature of business itself whether it be a traditional business or MLM. Unless you are self employed and if that is the case...I don't know about what company you were part of but the best thing to do is to find a MLM that suits your personality and it something you can be passionate about.

The MLM was Ignite/Stream and you're right they are not for everyone BUT that's not what most of them will tell you. What I see is more people in this business spend more than they make and are definitely more in debt. It is just an absurd business plan and most CPAs would agree. Almost everyone that I know that started 5 yrs, ago are not making the BIG money they were told they would by this many years, Oh well, each to their own.

[marcy]

Ignite and Stream Energy

After looking at the information, it appears what is being sold are "Certificates" that say you have put money into green energy. Not that you own any stock in a particular company, not that any amount will be taken off of your electricity bill, but, you have assisted with the development of green energy. It is not a charitable donation which can be deducted from income tax. However, I'm told that it is a business expense. The only product I see, is a piece of paper saying that I have spent $xxx and am spending $xx/month making sure that green energy is developed. LOL! Just looks like a scam to me.

Shewillbemine you couldn't have spelled it out any better. Remember, there is no background check or resume and reference request for any of these people. All they want is that $300 up front and their $25 monthly fee for the website and anyone can become an Independent Associate for Ignite. It is very scary. Don't forget their motivational speakers range from Randy (the self-professed stupid Cowboy) to Jennifer, a woman who flirts shamelessly with the men in the audience. Oh, they are all millionaires by the way.

[Txredesign]

Ignite-Clean Nation

Knowing several associates for Ignite, I believe after opening in Atlantic City, NJ for deregulation on gas or electric or both, it was not well received and they are desperate to come up with another market under the deguise of 'Green Energy'. If this company and associates are doing as well as they claim they should have already DONATED to this cause. I am not sure when the people I know are in it that are so brainwashed (most have dropped out and lost money) will ever figure out the only people getting rich are the ones at the top; they'll probably realize this when they are bankrupt from going to these Ignite meetings and conventions all over the place. It's just like Amway except I have to admit selling electricity and gas is easier than selling vitamins and soap but REALLY the business plan sucks.

[coolpix]

Thank you for this information. I spent a couple of hours going through it reading everyone's opinion because I was trying to decide if I should join Ignite. I feel confident now that this is not for me. Thank you for helping me ovoid a costly mistake when I can't afford to make one.

[Bradly1]

Here in Texas there is an energy company called Stream Energy that also owns its marketing business called Ignite that uses Multi Level Marketing to sell its energy.

It is set up like Amway and I do not trust it and wanted to see if any of you guys have had any experience with them that you can tell me about.

Thanks

This is not a SCAM and I am doing really well with this as a side business here in Pa. Why do we think scam when we think network marketing? Did you know that 8 out of 10 self made millionaires are from network marketing? Did you also know that IGNITE has done 5 BILLION dollars in revenue in 7 years! And paid out over 250 million dollars to ignite associates! Did you know that ignite is the 12 largest network marketing company in the world! And the largest energy direct selling energy company in the world! And that's from doing business in 5 states! I don't know why people don't like the words "network marketing" to me that's an opportunity for $$$$$$$$$$$$$$ Well I hope that this info helps you out a bit.

[gjo]

Ambit Energy

I work for a similar company in PA called Ambit Energy. They also use the MLM model.
Have there been scams in MLM companies, yes, absolutely. The biggest scams however, have come out of the non-MLM business world. Remember Enron? Remember Bernie Madoff? I know people who have lost money with both of these, and they were supposed to be "legit".

Anyone who is blindly calling an MLM company a scam, just because it is MLM, is either ignorant, uneducated or both.

go to wikipedia an look up List_of_corporate_scandals. What an impressive list of legitimate business.

If you go to the PA Public Utility Commission's website, it says "Shop. Switch. Save." on the main page.
Ambit Energy is one of those companies that you can switch to. How is this a scam again? I guess the state must be in on the scam.