Flu vaccines or global warming?

[markusk]

This week the local paper had stories focusing on families choosing between having their children getting or not getting the flu shot this year (both the regular flu and H1N1). Although the vast science/medical data indicate vaccines are safe, some families in California are choosing not to get their children immunized, citing "tentative scientific data" suggesting "the jury is still out on this issue." One school district reported that about 25% of parients of school age children have requested permission not to have their children immunized.

A few weeks ago there were news articles about people who still think that global warming is either not real or being exaggerated by the "media." Again despite vast scientific data to the contrary, some people are citing "tentative scientific data" suggesting "the jury is still out on this issue."

I bring this up because a neighbor told me yesterday that she does not think vaccines are safe and so are not getting her children vaccinated this fall against the flu. This same neighbor is also environmentally very aware (has solar panel, removed front lawn with drought resistant plants, drives a Prius, etc) and the words "carbon foot print" is in her normal every-day vocabulary. Needless to say this neighbor gets very irritated with people who do not believe that global warming is real ("how can they ignore all the science?).

This got me to thinking. Is there an inverse relationship between one's belief in getting the flu shot and global warming? In other words, does your belief in getting the flu shot predict your belief in global warming, and vise versa?

[disneysteve]

I don't think there is any relationship between those two beliefs. The sad fact is that a great many people simply don't understand science. They are more swayed by infomercials, snake oil salesmen, televangelists and other scam artists. I gave up a while ago trying to have an intelligent conversation with folks like this.

[irmanator]

well I don't get the flu shot bc I am young healthy but also not so sure i trust it. I figure I can deal with the flu better than the unknown. Maybe I am nuts but I prefer cautious. I don't do too much of anything especially medicine when it is new.

I don't think global warming is a problem, from what I have read the warming and cooling happens in cycles. Since the earth has been around with these cycles longer than we have been keeping records, I am not sure there is anything to worry about right now.

[disneysteve]

well I don't get the flu shot bc I am young healthy but also not so sure i trust it. I figure I can deal with the flu better than the unknown. Maybe I am nuts but I prefer cautious. I don't do too much of anything especially medicine when it is new.

I'm curious what aspect of the flu vaccine you consider new or unknown. We've been giving flu shots for decades.

I am not debating your choice not to get one. I am also young and healthy and don't get one either but not because I don't trust it or don't think it works. I don't get one because I'm not in a high risk group.

[markusk]

Irmanator: so you don't believe in the science of either of the two issues? That's interesting. How strongly do you feel about that? I don't know if you have children, but if you did, would you let them get vaccinated against mumps, measles, ruebella, chicken pox, polio etc?

disneysteve: as a healthcare worker, shouldn't you get vaccinated?

[disneysteve]

disneysteve: as a healthcare worker, shouldn't you get vaccinated?

Probably so according to the guidelines. I do think personal history is important, though. I've been a doctor for 19 years. In that time, I've missed exactly one day of work due to illness, some stomach virus, and that was over 10 years ago. I've got a good immune system. I eat a healthy diet, drink lots of water and wash my hands all day long. When I'm older, like 50 or 55, I'll start getting the flu shot but for now, I don't see the need.

But again, that is not because I doubt the science, safety or efficacy of the vaccine. I highly recommend it to people who are at risk. In fact, I vaccinated both my wife (who has asthma) and my mother (who is 79 and diabetic) earlier today.

[am_vanquish]

does your belief in getting the flu shot predict your belief in global warming, and vise versa?

In general, I'd say no. However, I wouldn't be surprised that there might be some correlation, but not very strong. I say this because many people who are severely environmentally friendly are averse to synthetic "manmade" concoctions. They prefer things to be all-natural. For instance, they're more likely to eat organic foods because they oppose preservatives and other chemicals in their food. I'd say that most vegans are environmentally conscious. I'd also say that vegans are more likely than others to be averse to vaccines. Ergo ... some correlation wouldn't surprise me.

[disneysteve]

I'd also say that vegans are more likely than others to be averse to vaccines.

Funny that you say that. My daughter is vegetarian (not vegan) and she was quite averse to the 3 vaccines I gave her this morning. Of course, she wasn't opposed to them on a scientific basis. She just didn't want to get the needles.

[markusk]

In general, I'd say no. However, I wouldn't be surprised that there might be some correlation, but not very strong. I say this because many people who are severely environmentally friendly are averse to synthetic "manmade" concoctions. They prefer things to be all-natural. For instance, they're more likely to eat organic foods because they oppose preservatives and other chemicals in their food. I'd say that most vegans are environmentally conscious. I'd also say that vegans are more likely than others to be averse to vaccines. Ergo ... some correlation wouldn't surprise me.

Yeah, that was what I was thinking. It's not the science but the preformed belief/bias/philosophy; if the science supports their belief, then yes they believe in the science, if not then no the science is suspect. But what about folks who don't believe that global warming is real, do those people believe in getting immunization shots? Just thinking/asking out loud.

Disneysteve: our 3 year old daughter looks forward to seeing her pediatrician and actually asked, when am I getting my next shot? She is a non-stop chatter box.

[melinuxfool]

I personally think there's a lot of sensationalism to both. The media gets higher ratings for the hype. They want to get the chicken littles of the world to yell out that the sky is falling.

Well, I'm not buying it. So what if the temperature gets a little warmer or cooler, or whatever the paranoid are calling it these days! We experience mini cycles of global warming and cooling every year, they're called seasons.

The world isn't going to come to an end because it gets 3-5 degrees warmer or cooler. Remember, we've had ice ages before, and I believe we're still technically coming out of one. My state, 10,000 years ago, was covered in Glaciers. What made them melt? Was it automobile emissions?

I feel that politicians are shooting arrows at the sun. They're putting all this effort into something that is going to have zero results, all the while stealing from our paychecks each week to pay the bill for their stupidity!

[LivingAlmostLarge]

LOTS of parents don't vaccinate period. They believe it causes autism. Sigh. Not just flu, but even MMR, polio, rubella, etc.

[disneysteve]

LOTS of parents don't vaccinate period. They believe it causes autism. Sigh. Not just flu, but even MMR, polio, rubella, etc.

Jenny McCarthy has done more damage to science in recent years than anyone else. Her crusade against vaccines is criminal IMO.

[creditcardfree]

Personally, I'm not convinced on global warming. However, I do recycle and I'm beginning to look limit the amount of plastic that comes into my home because it takes so long to break down into the earth. I'm making many green changes because they are cheaper, they use less energy or because they don't come in plastic.

I've vaccinated my kids for everything...but we don't tend to get the flu shot ever year. I have no real reason why or why not. I think only my oldest had it when she was 3, but DH and I got it too. We don't get sick very often at all. Right now, I think we plan to skip the both flu vaccines.

So, my point, I have mixed points of view!!

[irmanator]

The h1n1 is new and reports say it hasn't been sufficiently tested. Besides that I really don't see the big deal, last time I got the flu I slept all week. I don't remember doing anything else.

[markusk]

The OP was not about the merits of each belief, but whether one belief predicts the other. I personally believe in the science of both. As a healthcare worker, I've always gotten flu shots every year and this year is no exception.

As an aside, getting immunization shots is more than just protecting yourself or your child. It also protects those around you. If only a few children don't get immunized in a school district, it should be fine ("herd" protection). But if more and more children do not get immunized, then at a certain point "herd immunization" is lost and there is the danger of an epidemic, so now others in the community may be affected -- pregnant mothers (who has a child in school), the elderly grandparents with COPD/asthma, the aunt on chemo for breast cancer, etc.

A note on H1N1: it seems to affect young healthy pregnant women and not affect the elderly. If the data from the summer holds up, a lot of pregnant woman may get very very sick this flu season. This is why priority will be given to pregnant women with the first batch of H1N1 shots. The danger is not that a healthy high school student gets H1N1; the danger is when they bring it back to their home/neighborhood, church/supermarket, etc where they are in contact with a non-immunized pregnant woman.