Why I'm not a Ramseyite

[TexasHusker]

He's wrong.

https://medium.com/@grantcardone/dav...g-f440c537b8c3

I feel quite sure that Dave Ramsey has multiple credit cards.

[disneysteve]

I feel quite sure that Dave Ramsey has multiple credit cards.

What are you basing that on? He has stated repeatedly for years that he does not hold a single credit card. I'm sure if he was lying about that, it would have come out by now since it is such a key part of his program. Someone at a bank somewhere would have leaked that info.

[Nutria]

What are you basing that on?

The long history of hypocrisy by moralists and absolutists.

[disneysteve]

The long history of hypocrisy by moralists and absolutists.

So you believe that Dave Ramsey is lying about following his own advice?

As much as I've listened to him and disagreed with various things he teaches, I have never once doubted that he actually does the stuff he claims to do. Maybe I'm wrong but unless there's proof of that out there, I'll continue to believe him.

[Nutria]

So you believe that Dave Ramsey is lying about following his own advice?

I have no opinion one way or another. It would not, though, shock me in the least if he were outed as a closet charger.

[bjl584]

So you believe that Dave Ramsey is lying about following his own advice?

As much as I've listened to him and disagreed with various things he teaches, I have never once doubted that he actually does the stuff he claims to do. Maybe I'm wrong but unless there's proof of that out there, I'll continue to believe him.

I don't doubt that Dave doesn't have any credit cards.
One thing that I do question is his claim of the returns that someone can get by investing in mutual funds. The numbers that he throws out there are unrealistic. If he is actually investing in these funds himself, then he has to know that the returns he talks about are higher than reality. But, for years he keeps talking about the high rates of returns. Why hasn't he scaled back on these claims and shifted to speaking to more realistic return rates?

[disneysteve]

I don't doubt that Dave doesn't have any credit cards.
One thing that I do question is his claim of the returns that someone can get by investing in mutual funds.

I think 12% returns are out there but I certainly wouldn't use 12% as the basis of planning my portfolio or projecting future growth. Does he have funds earning 12%? Probably. So do I. But I think basing his plan on the number is overly optimistic for sure.

[Gailete]

From what I have read (several of his books) and heard (at 'university') his basic thrust is to help people get out from under the huge debt that people are swamped with. Many guys that give out financial advice to people who are completely bogged under such as Joe Dominguez and Vickie Robin in Your Money or Your Life, as well as Dave Ramsey, they are promoting a lifestyle to get you out of debt and in a better relation and they offer their take on investment advice. They aren't in fact writing a book on investments, but how to get to the point of being able to make investments. Most books on investments seem to just assume that you have oodles of money laying around ready to invest on their say so. I have read the different books, not at all for investment advice, but for help in getting out of debt. I have my own plan for investing.

Part of the difference in the getting out of debt info and the investment info, is the getting out of debt information was good 10 years ago and will be good 10 years from now. Investment advice can change over the years as new investment vehicles come onto the market. Things like dated retirement mutual Funds were not available as far as I know 15 years when I went to Financial Peace University. Nor were things like ETFs, etc.

I don't doubt that Dave Ramsey has no credit cards, but would most likely have a debit card for buying airplane tickets, rental cars and hotel rooms as needed for when he is on the road. I don't know why people would think it is so implausible for him to not have a credit card. At this point he should be able to afford cash to pay for what he needs. It is possible to live a life, even in this economy, without a credit card. My one son does and he has a lot less money to work with than DR.

[TexasHusker]

What are you basing that on? He has stated repeatedly for years that he does not hold a single credit card. I'm sure if he was lying about that, it would have come out by now since it is such a key part of his program. Someone at a bank somewhere would have leaked that info.

I just find it very hard to believe that he and/or his company don't have credit cards. My company is much smaller than his, and we couldn't exist without a company credit card. There are so many situations in which you need to have a credit card, there's no way I could possibly list them all. But here are a few:

1. Travel - airlines, hotels, car rentals. Is Dave Ramsey really paying cash or writing checks for all of this for he and his employees? Don't think so.

2. Capital equipment orders

3. Online supply orders

4. Sending your employees to the store to get supplies - you're giving them cash?


etc.

[disneysteve]

I just find it very hard to believe that he and/or his company don't have credit cards. My company is much smaller than his, and we couldn't exist without a company credit card. There are so many situations in which you need to have a credit card, there's no way I could possibly list them all. But here are a few:

1. Travel - airlines, hotels, car rentals. Is Dave Ramsey really paying cash or writing checks for all of this for he and his employees? Don't think so.

2. Capital equipment orders

3. Online supply orders

4. Sending your employees to the store to get supplies - you're giving them cash?

I'm sure he's doing all of this with debit cards, not credit cards. Either that or for the bigger stuff he probably has arrangements with suppliers for payment terms where he can get invoiced and send in a check.

I know his website doesn't even accept credit cards to purchase his books and other materials.

[Nutria]

for the bigger stuff he probably has arrangements with suppliers for payment terms where he can get invoiced and send in a check.

Isn't "buy now, pay later" another word for "debt"?

[disneysteve]

Isn't "buy now, pay later" another word for "debt"?

Not at all. Do you get an electric bill each month? I do. It charges me for the electricity I've used the previous month. I don't pay in advance. Same for the gas bill, the water bill, and some other bills. Same for medical bills. I see the doctor, they submit a claim to my insurance and then bill me for my portion. It's all done after the fact.

There's no debt involved as there's no money being borrowed.

[Nutria]

Not at all. Do you get an electric bill each month? I do. It charges me for the electricity I've used the previous month. I don't pay in advance. Same for the gas bill, the water bill, and some other bills. Same for medical bills. I see the doctor, they submit a claim to my insurance and then bill me for my portion. It's all done after the fact.

There's no debt involved as there's no money being borrowed.

I still think that's debt: pay later for purchases now. (Heck, hospitals even offer payment plans, and that's certainly debt.)

[disneysteve]

I still think that's debt: pay later for purchases now. (Heck, hospitals even offer payment plans, and that's certainly debt.)

Do you consider yourself to be in constant debt to the utility companies?

If we place an order for supplies at my office, the company ships us the order along with an invoice, and we mail back the invoice with our payment, I don't count that as debt. I'm pretty sure most others don't either.

Now a payment plan is something different. If you get a $1,000 hospital bill and agree to pay $50/month for 20 months, yes, that is a debt. If you get a $1,000 hospital bill and return it right away with a check for $1,000, there's no debt involved.

[Jluke]

@disneysteve and nutria.

I would consider those bills to be an expense that are expected to be paid in full when the bill is received. If it isn't paid in full then it becomes a bad debt.

Think I'm experiencing deja vu on this subject.